Other World Saga?

Super 17 · Post by **Super 17** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:10 pm

Is the other world tournament saga filler? Is Paikuhah a filler too? I don't own the manga, but those who know could know if it is.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:13 pm

Yes, filler on all counts. Manga goes from Trunks' return to the future right into the Great Saiyaman arc.

Some of the best filler ever, though. Paikuhan's hardcore.

Super 17 · Post by **Super 17** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:32 pm

Does Paikuhan and Olivu appear when kid buu is trying to destroy the other world or is that filler too?

Post by **Herms** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:52 pm

That's filler too. Paikuhan and Olivu are purely anime-only characters, so they're only in filler and movies (well, a movie).

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:54 pm

Super 17 wrote:Does Paikuhan and Olivu appear when kid buu is trying to destroy the other world or is that filler too?

Yeah, that's all filler.

In fact, just about everything featuring Grand Kai and his planet or the other Kaios is filler. The most we ever saw of those guys in the manga was one little part before the world tournament, when South Kaio showed up during some of Goku's training with Northy.

Gogeta1090 · Post by **Gogeta1090** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:59 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Super 17 wrote:Does Paikuhan and Olivu appear when kid buu is trying to destroy the other world or is that filler too?
Yeah, that's all filler.

In fact, just about everything featuring Grand Kai and his planet or the other Kaios is filler. The most we ever saw of those guys in the manga was one little part before the world tournament, when South Kaio showed up during some of Goku's training with Northy.

Who says the other Kaio's are Filler if South Kaio was in the manga. Thats like saying Bardock's crew members are filler because they weren't in the manga

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:02 pm

Gogeta1090 wrote:Who says the other Kaio's are Filler if South Kaio was in the manga. Thats like saying Bardock's crew members are filler because they weren't in the manga

I didn't say there was anything wrong with them, I was just making the answer to his question as clear as possible.

Trust me, I'm not one to worry about what's canon or what's filler or what Toriyama really meant or anything like that. Over analyzing it just detracts from my enjoyment.

Super 17 · Post by **Super 17** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:08 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Gogeta1090 wrote:Who says the other Kaio's are Filler if South Kaio was in the manga. Thats like saying Bardock's crew members are filler because they weren't in the manga
I didn't say there was anything wrong with them, I was just making the answer to his question as clear as possible.

Trust me, I'm not one to worry about what's canon or what's filler or what Toriyama really meant or anything like that. Over analyzing it just detracts from my enjoyment.

I understand what SSJ Kaboom is trying to say. I can't believe it's all filler. I wanted Paikuhan to be like the strongest one in the other world. Well it's a different world when watching the anime.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:12 pm

Well to be honest, as far as I know there's nothing wrong with the OtherWorld Saga, nor the existence of the other Kaios and stuff in general. Unless I'm forgetting something major, it all fits into the continuity pretty flawlessly.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:16 pm

Gogeta1090 wrote:Who says the other Kaio's are Filler if South Kaio was in the manga. Thats like saying Bardock's crew members are filler because they weren't in the manga

That's...that's what filler means. Things that aren't in the manga but were added for the anime are filler (for Dragon Ball and other anime adapted fairly closely from manga, at least; for other shows the word has a different meaning). Like Kaboom said, that's not to say that they're bad or anything, it's just stating the fact that they don't appear in the manga.

But to clarify, though none of the other Kaio besides the North and South ones appear in the manga, they do exist in the manga continuity. That is, it's mentioned in the manga that there are four Kaio for each compass point, and a Dai-Kaio directly above them, it's just that in the manga most of them never show up.

It's probably also worth noting that Toriyama did do the character designs for the Dai-Kaio at least, and maybe the other Kaio who only are shown in the anime. Daizenshuu 5 and Son Goku Densetsu both show Toriyama's character design for him, if I remember correctly.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:19 pm

Just speculating here, but maybe Toriyama did acknowledge the decision to include the Grand Kai in the whole Kai heirachy, it's just that he never makes any sort of statement as such confirming this.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:23 pm

Herms wrote:It's probably also worth noting that Toriyama did do the character designs for the Dai-Kaio at least, and maybe the other Kaio who only are shown in the anime. Daizenshuu 6 and Son Goku Densetsu both show Toriyama's character design for him, if I remember correctly.

Is this the design/explanation in question?

Additionally (and I know I've posted this before), but daizenshuu numero quatro, "WORLD GUIDE" (which focuses primarily on the manga), has this chart of the god hierarchy. Note that while it doesn't include actual images of the characters that don't appear in the manga (I think? I'm a bit rusty on my Buu-era manga), their existence in the storyline is acknowledged by their respective names/titles being listed. Then again, the Old Kaioshin isn't shown with an image (either his original or post-witch-fusion) despite absolutely appearing in the series as a regular character...

Post by **Herms** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:25 pm

The fact (er, Dragon Ball "fact") that there is a Dai-Kaio and four Kaio underneath him is stated in the manga, when Piccolo learns Shin's true identity as the Kaioshin. So Toriyama did acknowledge his existence in the manga continuity.

edit:

VegettoEX wrote:
Is this the design/explanation in question?

[snip]

Maybe. I only own Daizenshuu 5, which shows Toriyama's character design for Dai-Kaio's (here's Saiyan's scan). I do remember that in one of the old podcasts, after the "Akira Toriyama had nothing to do with filler" portion of the rumor guide went up, you mentioned that Son Goku Densetsu had something like that. So if that picture was what you were talking about, then that's what I was talking about. Or something (I really need to get Son Goku Densetsu...)

edit-edit:

Additionally (and I know I've posted this before), but daizenshuu numero quatro, "WORLD GUIDE" (which focuses primarily on the manga), has this chart of the god hierarchy. Note that while it doesn't include actual images of the characters that don't appear in the manga (I think? I'm a bit rusty on my Buu-era manga), their existence in the storyline is acknowledged by their respective names/titles being listed.

Yeah, Daizenshuu 4 is taken completely from the manga; there's nothing at all from the anime. And all the characters in that chart did appear in the manga, if only briefly. The pictures of the South Kaioshin and the Dai-Kaioshin, for instance, are the only pictures of them at all in the manga, from Kaioshin's little flashback.

(Incidently, am I the only one who wonders if South Kaioshin's appearence started out as an early character design for the Kaioshin/Kibito fusion?)

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:59 am

Oops, I totally ignored Herms' post earlier. Well there we have it, is anything BUT speculation. lol