The strength of the not-so-main fighters

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:26 am

Why does everyone think the earthlings are so weak in the Android saga? I mean, seriously? 20,000? I just don't get it. Why would they even help if they were that weak? Let's take an example. Gero mistook Yamcha for Goku, now...

1. Gero took the max power level of Goku's fight with Vegeta, and as he said he projected that power by a great amount, his estimated extreme amount that he thought Goku would achieve during those years.
2. Yamcha was at a normal power state, no need to be powered up, he was relaxed, and probably even lowering his energy so not to stick out in a normal crowd. (He was looking for them, not trying to get them to notice him)
3. When Piccolo gets drained by Gero, he says that power was nothing compared to his max power, as they all know how to boost themselves greatly, this is where the term "burst limit" comes from, as he even says that they can amplify there power in bursts, and that Gero stole nothing from him. Yeah, Yamcha got drained pretty badly, but he doesn't have near the max energy of Piccolo. So that means Yamcha WAS infact relaxed, and not at his highest level of power.

After all of that, he gets mistaken for Goku.

Comments?

Post by **Herms** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:37 am

I think you might be putting too much faith in the series' internal consistency when it comes to these things. Though I do think Yamcha and the others are much stronger than they are usually given credit for.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:44 am

Well, Tenshinhan was able to immobilize Imperfect Cell. If the difference was as great as it was in the Freeza saga Cell would've just stood there and shrugged it off, or been fast enough to avoid it.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:48 am

Herms wrote:I think you might be putting too much faith in the series' internal consistency when it comes to these things. Though I do think Yamcha and the others are much stronger than they are usually given credit for.

Oh yeah! They get no credit!
I know this scene is filler, but: When Kuririn briefly fights Cell, first form. I know Cell would have murdered him, but Kuririn did get a good hit in on Cell!
Tien slowing down Cell with Neo-Kikoho! Cell, could not get up!!

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:49 pm

Some people think they aren't that strong, like some people think Tenshinhan didn't get a big boost from his godly training, really only because he's not Vegeta, Goku or Piccolo. It's stupid really, give the rest of the cast some credit, I know it's hard to comprehend that they're stronger than the Ginyu force in the Android saga, but it's true. Probably way stronger. People who think they're weak use like mathematics and percentages in debates, it's just odd to me, it's not that complicated. The stronger the villains became, the faster Mr. Toriyama made everyone gain power. Seriously, Tenshinhan and the others did the same Popo/Kami training Goku did, and got a much bigger boost in power, it would apply to the North Kaio training as well. And North Kaio trained them harder than he did Goku, and for longer...well in the case of Tenshinhan and his midget friend. Also, people might say that since they're so strong, that normal gravity wouldn't affect them anymore, yet they all train normally on Earth for 3 years, and they all become super powerful. Tenshinhan held down Cell, Piccolo was near SSj strength, Goku was really, really powerful, and Gohan was strong enough to turn SSJ in the ROSAT almost instantly.

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Didn't see the other thread, so I'm gonna hang out there, I won't reply here again.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:51 pm

I put it this way. While they might not be as strong as Super Saiyans, they outclass all other humans in existence. The human fighters are pretty strong considering the overall scope of things.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:57 pm

Drunken Master wrote:Some people think they aren't that strong, like some people think Tenshinhan didn't get a big boost from his godly training, really only because he's not Vegeta, Goku or Piccolo. It's stupid really, give the rest of the cast some credit, I know it's hard to comprehend that they're stronger than the Ginyu force in the Android saga, but it's true. Probably way stronger. People who think they're weak use like mathematics and percentages in debates, it's just odd to me, it's not that complicated. The stronger the villains became, the faster Mr. Toriyama made everyone gain power.

I absolutely agree. All of that makes more sense than any kind of mathematics.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:48 pm

Kid Trunks wrote:
Drunken Master wrote:Some people think they aren't that strong, like some people think Tenshinhan didn't get a big boost from his godly training, really only because he's not Vegeta, Goku or Piccolo. It's stupid really, give the rest of the cast some credit, I know it's hard to comprehend that they're stronger than the Ginyu force in the Android saga, but it's true. Probably way stronger. People who think they're weak use like mathematics and percentages in debates, it's just odd to me, it's not that complicated. The stronger the villains became, the faster Mr. Toriyama made everyone gain power.
I absolutely agree. All of that makes more sense than any kind of mathematics.

Lets not bring Math into this....But I agree. Like I said, they are all individually only a bit weaker than Freeza. But something just came to my mind. Could Tien, Yamcha, Chaozu, Kuririn, and even Piccolo have learned Kaio-Ken from Kaio-Sama?

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:09 pm

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:15 pm

I agree, but I'm sure we can all agree Yamcha and the other Z warriors are much stronger than Mr.Satan

Whoever said that...Well there could be a number of things wrong with that person!

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:09 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote: By their logic Yamucha is just a normal guy and can therefore not perform any superhuman feats whatsoever. I even remember someone taking that logic so far as to try and claim that Yamucha would undoubtedly lose pathetically in a straight hand to hand fistfight with Batman. Again, ignoring that this is the same guy who moved so fast fighting a Saibaiman that he literally disappeared completely from normal human view, which is the sort of feat that’s normally reserved for the likes of The Flash and Superman.

Batman could pay Yamcha to throw the fight...for an insane amount of money. That's the only way Batman would win.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:04 pm

Even Chaozu could beat all the comic book heros from Marmal and DC.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:07 pm

I wouldn't go that far.

Pain · Post by **Pain** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:11 pm

Yeah, don't give him that much credit. Now Vegetto could wipe all of them out. No questions asked, no penises pumped(random).

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:50 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:Even Chaozu could beat all the comic book heros from Marmal and DC.

Uh... no. A good number of them, sure. But it would take, at the very least, Namek era SSJ Gok to tangle with Superman. And even SSJ4 Gogeta would get his ass kicked by Pre-Crisis Supes. XD

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:02 pm

Superman is over rated, I disagree with you all. Superman has zero martial arts skills, zero control on ki, and is only super strong. Chaozu is also pretty strong himself, compared to superman. I sure Chaozu would have an easy time.

Storm · Post by **Storm** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:09 pm

I think you underestimate Superman.

...especially pre-crisis.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:30 pm

Storm wrote:I think you underestimate Superman.

...especially pre-crisis.

Pre-crisis? That movie on Toonami where Superman fights his own clone?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:30 pm

Pre-Crisis Superman would be better matched up against Arale or Bo-Bobo. They're both absurd, fantasy, humor/almost-humor characters who can never be permanently hurt, and both have the amazing ability to pull a random new power or attack out of their asses. Just like PC Supes.

But let's not let this thread degrade into this sort of things, shall we?

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:37 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
Storm wrote:I think you underestimate Superman.

...especially pre-crisis.
Pre-crisis? That movie on Toonami where Superman fights his own clone?

Let's just leave it at this: The only being that could tango with Pre-Crisis Superman is the Christian god.