Super Buu Compared to Fat Buu

[Fossilgojir]

I hate to ask such an argument-prone question, but was it ever stated in the manga that "super" Buu was stronger than fat Buu (before he split)? I don't trust Viz and the anime changes a few things, so can anyone shed some insight? For that matter, is the gray Buu a separate entity or just a de-powered super?

[Ex-Dubbie369]

I hate to ask such an argument-prone question, but was it ever stated in the manga that "super" Buu was stronger than fat Buu (before he split)? I don't trust Viz and the anime changes a few things, so can anyone shed some insight? For that matter, is the gray Buu a separate entity or just a de-powered super?

In the manga, it is implied that Super Buu is the most powerful of all the Buus. Think of it this way, Goku and Vegeta needed to fuse in order to fight him, where they want to fight Kid Buu separately. The anime messes this up by saying that Kid Buu is the strongest (I forget if it's Goku or the narrator).

[Fossilgojir]

In the manga, it is implied that Super Buu is the most powerful of all the Buus. Think of it this way, Goku and Vegeta needed to fuse in order to fight him, where they want to fight Kid Buu separately. The anime messes this up by saying that Kid Buu is the strongest (I forget if it's Goku or the narrator).

No no, I mean the the form that appears after fat Buu is eaten by the grey Buu, not after he absorbs Piccolo, Gotenks and Gohan. Sorry; I guess I should have been more specific.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

In the manga, it is implied that Super Buu is the most powerful of all the Buus. Think of it this way, Goku and Vegeta needed to fuse in order to fight him, where they want to fight Kid Buu separately. The anime messes this up by saying that Kid Buu is the strongest (I forget if it's Goku or the narrator).

No no, I mean the the form that appears after fat Buu is eaten by the grey Buu, not after he absorbs Piccolo, Gotenks and Gohan. Sorry; I guess I should have been more specific.

Even without the others, he's still stronger. He was still able to fight Gotenks to a relative stand-still (although part of that was Gotenks' fault).

[Herms]

When Buu is waiting around at the temple, Piccolo tells Goten and Trunks that he is superior to the old Buu (i.e. Fat Buu) "in every way".

[Fossilgojir]

When Buu is waiting around at the temple, Piccolo tells Goten and Trunks that he is superior to the old Buu (i.e. Fat Buu) "in every way".

Thanks.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Evil Buu seems to be a seperate form, or possibly Kid Buu in another form since he's all of the evil within Majin Buu.

[Horgus]

Fat Buu and Super Buu are essentially the same creature, their internal workings are the same.

Fat Buu = 'Kid Buu'+ Both Kaioshins

Super Buu is just a more efficient restructuring of what is essentially the same being.

[Pain]

I always thought that the Grey Boo(Pure Evil) was stronger than the Fat Boo(Mr.Boo) only because he was more strategic and that there was more evil in the original Fat Boo's being. So their powers are more odd than even.

[Xyex]

Fat Buu and Super Buu are essentially the same creature, their internal workings are the same.

Fat Buu = 'Kid Buu'+ Both Kaioshins

Super Buu is just a more efficient restructuring of what is essentially the same being.

Yeah. I've always looked at it like the difference between an improper and proper fusion. (I mean, hell, you've even got a fat and a skinny remerging to make a normal.) So basicly, when Buu absorbed the Dai Kaioshin the fusion went wrong and he lost a lot of his power own power, and all of the Kais' powers. But then when the skinny Buu reabsorbed the fat one this imperfection was fixed and all of his and the Kais' powers became available to him.

[Terra-jin]

A wrong fusion huh? That could have been done by Dai Kaioshin on purpose. When he was losing the battle with Buu, he only saw one option, letting himself be absorbed, but just before becoming part of Buu, he would slap one of his Potara earrings on Buu (whichever part of him counts as the 'ear' is another thing). This would then cause a weird kind of fusion, between two beings that were alike in nothing at all (just like you could call Rou Kaioshin a botched fusion ).

If you go by that, then Super Buu might be the 'correction' to the wrongness of the fusion. Although, Buu was supposed to adopt his victims' physical characteristics. This is why I adhere to the 'Kaioshin are negative energy to Buu' idea. With this everything works out perfectly: Mr. Buu weaker than Evil Buu and Kid Buu, Kid Buu weaker than Super Buu, Super Buu most powerful.

About Grey/Thin/Evil Buu, I view him in the same line of beings as the Super Buus. Since Evil Buu was the evil half of Fat Buu, his kind of evil was somewhat different than Kid Buu's evil. This also means that Super Buu is exactly the same person as Evil Buu, just with a few additions in physique, knowledge and power.

[Horgus]

Yeah. I've always looked at it like the difference between an improper and proper fusion. (I mean, hell, you've even got a fat and a skinny remerging to make a normal.) So basicly, when Buu absorbed the Dai Kaioshin the fusion went wrong and he lost a lot of his power own power, and all of the Kais' powers. But then when the skinny Buu reabsorbed the fat one this imperfection was fixed and all of his and the Kais' powers became available to him.

Well I'm honestly not sure if it could be rightly said that *all* of his potential power was restored. If you remember when they pulled out the Fat Buu, he went from Super Buu to 'Buff' Buu, and they made a comment that he was gaining power.

He then regressed back to Kid form and apparently became a great deal less formidable. Really, the only explanation that I can come up with is that absorbing the Dai Kaioshin (who was kind and gentle, and basically the highest being in the universe) his total power went WAY, WAY down. He went from being above Super Buu, to Fat Buu who even at his best was somewhat weaker than the original 'Kid' Buu.

[Xyex]

Yeah. I've always looked at it like the difference between an improper and proper fusion. (I mean, hell, you've even got a fat and a skinny remerging to make a normal.) So basicly, when Buu absorbed the Dai Kaioshin the fusion went wrong and he lost a lot of his power own power, and all of the Kais' powers. But then when the skinny Buu reabsorbed the fat one this imperfection was fixed and all of his and the Kais' powers became available to him.

Well I'm honestly not sure if it could be rightly said that *all* of his potential power was restored. If you remember when they pulled out the Fat Buu, he went from Super Buu to 'Buff' Buu, and they made a comment that he was gaining power.

He then regressed back to Kid form and apparently became a great deal less formidable. Really, the only explanation that I can come up with is that absorbing the Dai Kaioshin (who was kind and gentle, and basically the highest being in the universe) his total power went WAY, WAY down. He went from being above Super Buu, to Fat Buu who even at his best was somewhat weaker than the original 'Kid' Buu.

Yeah, true. I keep forgetting about Buff Buu. But you can't even really consider Super Buu as a 'happy medium' because he's apparently quite beyond Fat Buu who's rather close to Kid Buu. So I'd say maybe most of his power. Like, if Super Buu was 500 then Buff Buu would be 550 or something. Just enough for them to notice he's gaining in power again before he starts to revert.

[Onikage725]

I never really saw Fat Buu as being weak. Just unfocused. Similar to Gotenks, Fat Buu's primary motivation isn't swift victory. But when he was insulted or injured, he would perform as well as Kid Buu. He wrecked Vegeta about as hard as Kid Buu did, and some would argue that Vegeta was stronger when he fought Fat Buu (not me personally, but just for the sake of argument). He and Goku went even when toying with each other, and Goku was stronger than he was later on due to having a dead body.

This is completely irrelevant when discussing Mr. Buu, of course. While still powerful, he lacks Buu's primary source of strength. Evil Buu would basically be equivalent to Kid Buu, with Mr. Buu being a Buu-ized composite of South and Dai Kaioshin. He's probably, I would guess, somewhere in Cell's range of strength (what stage of Cell being open to interpretation). Super Buu is basically Fat Buu with no restriction. He has a far more lethal mind set. He uses his power to the fullest, at all times. Fat Buu's pushed over the edge "angry explosion" is basically the level that Super Buu stays at.

[Horgus]

One topic I think that is quite murky, is Super Buu's 'relation' to Evil Buu.

Is he the same being, with a sizable power up and personality change? I think so.

When Evil Buu fought and defeated Mr. Buu, he showed no joy and no emotion. There was only single minded aggression. I think an interesting theory is how well Gotenks would have fared against Evil Buu, who clearly wouldn't have given any time to rest and form strategy, like Super Buu did.

Also, right after he changed he was inspecting his hands, as if the gloved hands of Fat Buu were more native to him.

[mAcChaos]

I never really saw Fat Buu as being weak. Just unfocused. Similar to Gotenks, Fat Buu's primary motivation isn't swift victory. But when he was insulted or injured, he would perform as well as Kid Buu. He wrecked Vegeta about as hard as Kid Buu did, and some would argue that Vegeta was stronger when he fought Fat Buu (not me personally, but just for the sake of argument). He and Goku went even when toying with each other, and Goku was stronger than he was later on due to having a dead body.

This is completely irrelevant when discussing Mr. Buu, of course. While still powerful, he lacks Buu's primary source of strength. Evil Buu would basically be equivalent to Kid Buu, with Mr. Buu being a Buu-ized composite of South and Dai Kaioshin. He's probably, I would guess, somewhere in Cell's range of strength (what stage of Cell being open to interpretation). Super Buu is basically Fat Buu with no restriction. He has a far more lethal mind set. He uses his power to the fullest, at all times. Fat Buu's pushed over the edge "angry explosion" is basically the level that Super Buu stays at.

Super Buu had those "angry explosions" too, if you remember when he fought Gohan, so he probably wasn't at that level all the time either.

[Kaboom]

Super Buu had those "angry explosions" too, if you remember when he fought Gohan, so he probably wasn't at that level all the time either.

That was an all-encompassing, "final" self-destruct, more akin to what Majin Vegeta had done. There's a lot of difference between that and just getting pissed off and forming a giant explosion. Even Vegeta did the former against the Earthlings way back when.

I do like the idea of Fat Buu being "unfocused." Based on how the two of them were gauged against SSj3 Goku, I always have thought of he and Kid Buu as about equal, too. The only reason their fight was so one-sided later was because Fat Buu lost a good deal of power when he expelled his evil half. Mr. Buu would definitely have been fighting his best then, since Mr. Satan's hide was at risk.

[Onikage725]

Super Buu had those "angry explosions" too, if you remember when he fought Gohan, so he probably wasn't at that level all the time either.

Sorry, I don't think I was clear here.

I'm not talking about the angry explosion attack in and of itself. Rather, the state of mind and level of power displayed when Buu used that attack.

Let me use this, a quote from Sev (Republic Commando):
In order to achieve maximum combat efficiency, some guys say they need to "get in the zone." Sir, I live in the zone.

What I'm suggesting is that Fat Buu had to "get in the zone," but once there he was as devestating as Kid Buu. The other forms of Buu more or less lived in the zone, which is why Fat Buu comes off as weaker.

[mAcChaos]

I understand, but I think that there's still a reservoir of power that even Super Buu doesn't tap. If the last example isn't good, then take when he gets trapped in the time chamber.

I don't know why, but I always thought Fat Buu was stronger than Kid Buu.

Actually, that does make sense. Fat Buu is both Kid Buu and the Kais. He just messes around a lot.

[Onikage725]

I understand, but I think that there's still a reservoir of power that even Super Buu doesn't tap. If the last example isn't good, then take when he gets trapped in the time chamber.

I don't know why, but I always thought Fat Buu was stronger than Kid Buu.

Actually, that does make sense. Fat Buu is both Kid Buu and the Kais. He just messes around a lot.

Well, then, we agree.

Mr. Buu, basically being the Kaioshin/good portions of Buu, but without the natural Buu-ness, is the weakest. He has the body and regeneration, but he's more in line with the Z Senshi (I'd reckon about on par with a SSJ2- he fared better against Kid Buu than Vegeta did IMO).

Evil Buu = Kid Buu

Fat Buu is next, but is a complete goofball and doesn't maximize his potential (presumably due to Dai Kaioshin's influence).

Super Buu sheds that influence, takes control, and maximizes his potential. He's Kid Buu plus the raw power of South and Dai Kaioshin, with none of the innocence rubbing off on him. Hence, "Super."

As far as "Buff" Buu goes, I don't think that was stronger than Super Buu. I think when we see Buff Buu, his ki was flaring up (similar to what a USSJ2 transformation would do, or when Cell bulked up). Assuming that ki doesn't vanish into thin air, his power from being Super Buu I think was simply releasing. Hence, after he stablized, it was gone and he was simply Kid Buu. I don't think that was the level of power he had when he was in the Buff Buu state before absorbing Dai Kaioshin. I mainly believe this because South and Dai Kaioshin don't have pods, so they are presumably part of Mr. Buu. Buu himself couldn't be using South Kaioshin as a power source, if that's true, so his large form had to just be some kind of muscle memory.