Kanzenshuu

I get what you're saying but I do think that there is enough "evidence" that these guys can use their SS powers in combat (and not just as a non-usable in-between state) even if it's never explicitly stated. Let's completely disregard that animation correction or "False Super Saiyan", we are ...

There's never a direct confirmation that pre-Time Chamber Gotenks was stronger than Boo though. Piccolo calls Gotenks' ki incredible but never actually says he could beat Boo, and even Goku previously called it a gamble.

We know, as in we see it multiple times in the series even if it isn't outright stated, that the Saiyans can become as strong as their Super Saiyan forms without (completely) transforming. So that's probably why Vegeta is confident that he can defeat Piccolo and 18 without technically transforming ...

Noah wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2026 4:00 pm If Vegeta was confident enough to win the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai even with the “No Super Saiyan” rule, how would he deal with the power gap between his base form and opponents like Android 18 and Piccolo?

Could just be that Vegeta and the other Saiyans are just stronger than them

God, the fact that Super Hero is supposed to take place just ONE year before the 28th Tenkaichi Budōkai epilogue, and we're somehow supposed to believe that Blooma goes from looking like this:
https://i.imgur.com/e3HbDAY.png

to this:
https://i.imgur.com/3l0DQxF.png
in only a single year ...

That's exactly what it does; it basically writes the characters as their most popular version, regardless of whether or not that's actually who they were at the end of the Buu arc. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to age Gohan down to his Cell-arc self. :lol:


I mean... *gestures to all of ...

Kid Buu wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 4:27 pmIt feels as though Super leans heavily on the characterisation fans remember most. Yamcha here comes across much closer to his Saiyan Saga self than his Buu Saga version. It doesn’t help that Super even brings back his classic Saiyan Saga death pose.

Nail on the head.

Far moreso than the other humans, I wish Goten and Trunks had more screen time. Do something with the promising new generation you tried to build up in the Boo arc, why don't you?

I can't really say I share your concerns, but if you're that worried about it, from what we've seen of the trailer I think it's pretty unlikely that Newper will do much to bridge the gap between it and Daima.

To be honest, I'm not sure I agree that their training was as mundane as you're making it out to be. Being chased by dinosaurs and sharks and plowing entire fields with your bare hands is pretty Looney Tunes if you ask me, as is doing it plus everything else while wearing 20 kilos everyday with no ...

The Freeza arc strongly implies there are things even the Senzu can't fix immediately. Sorry to keep going back to this, but even though Goku still had Senzu to spare, he still chose to end his training after only five days and took the sixth to rest the old fashioned way. Likewise, Vegeta needed a ...

Is nine days enough time to fully recuperate from a year of torture, let alone two? Also, small nitpick I know, but I think Karin was just being optimistic when he said Cell was "a bit stronger" than Goku.

Goku may have only given up a day in the Freeza arc, but he also multiplied his power roughly ten times in just five. Even with the benefits of 100g diminishing, that extra day could've been significant. I don't think Goku would've given it up unless he was at the point where he was overtaxing his ...

The idea of the gang approaching the absolute limits of their own anatomy in the Boo arc would be interesting to me if it weren't for the part about unlocking new transformations making those limits expand. Then it just becomes whatever's convenient at the time. Otherwise, I think we just have to ...

Nice try, but you are confusing natural growth with forced artificial multiplication.

Natural Base Growth:
Raising your base power doesn't destroy the body because training naturally strengthens your physical biology (the container) alongside your ki. As your ki grows, your body adapts to ...

You are confusing the core concepts. During the manga, SSJ absolutely had a strict limit: the Cell saga is literally built around hitting the 'Super Saiyan wall' and having to force mutations to break those limits. Toriyama abandoned the Kaioken and Zenkai boosts after the Frieza arc precisely ...

​1. The Kaioken's Disappearance:
Using a quote from Jiren in Super to justify why Kaioken x20 math doesn't work against Frieza is a massive stretch. The real, out-of-universe reason Goku stopped using Kaioken in Z is simply that Toriyama forgot about it. In-universe, if SSJ is only a 10x ...

I wouldn't say 5x is what vilker is proposing, from what I understood, they meant it's at least 5x, not just 5x. After all, SS Goku probably wasn't going all out when dealing with those weights, that's probably his surface power. Suppressed, I mean.
But I'll let them explain themselves since it ...

I think the only way to make the 10x multiplier theory work is having Freeza lose a lot of health after the genki dama, making a 10x boost now able to overpower him. Which isn't crazy, but Goku also lost a lot of health, so that would mean that they are back at square one, and in fact, Freeza ...

You kinda have to assume it altered their physiology, if only to explain how normal Earthlings weren't flattened like pancakes by Planet Tsufru's gravity. Then again, Mr. Satan was never infected in the first place and handled the 10Gs like a champ. Nevermind, just a GT moment.