Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 25 - DB episode 111-115

[Robo4900]

Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 25 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

How time flies! We're getting to the end of OG DB, and coming up on DB movie 3.

Previous thread: Week 24 (DB 106-110)
Next thread: Week 26 (DB 116-120)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 111 - Kame-Sen’nin’s Final Mafūba!!
Dub title: Roshi's Gambit / The Mighty Mafuba Wave
Originally aired 11th of May 1988
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama

Kame-Sen’nin and Piccolo Daimaō at last confront each other! Kame-Sen’nin knows that he cannot defeat Daimaō with his own power, and resolves to use the Mafūba. Daimaō realizes this and is terrified. Kame-Sen’nin brings out a demon king sealing electric rice cooker and fires the Mafūba all at once. Daimaō then tries to escape, but he is captured by the Mafūba! However, the Mafūba misses the jar and fails, and Kame-Sen’nin dies, having used up all his power. Saved, Daimaō obtains all of the dragonballs, and finally calls forth Shen Long!

Anime-only/filler content: Kame House opening, expansion of Roshi and Daimao's first conversation, the flashback to Mutaito's defeat of Daimao.

Episode 112 - Piccolo Daimao’s Youth Restored?!
Dub title: King Piccolo's Wish / Will Piccolo Regain His Youth?
Originally aired 18th of May 1988
Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda

Piccolo Daimaō tries to have his wish granted by Shenlong. Having been hiding, Chiaotzu attempts to stop this, but is instead killed by Daimaō. Daimaō finally says his wish to Shenlong, and after having his youth restored, he destroys Shenlong! With that, he heads for King Castle, where the king lives. The only survivor, Tenshinhan is wracked with anger. Meanwhile, Goku and Yajirobe arrive at the Karin Holy Land. Goku reunites with Upa and his father Bora.

Anime-only/filler content: Pilaf's imagine sequence, the DB Gang at Kame House, Goku describing Karin on their way to the tower, the king helping the two village representatives, Daimao scaring the Pilaf gang with boasts of power.

Episode 113 - King Castle on the Offensive-Defensive!!
Dub title: Siege on Chow Castle / Taking The King's Castle!
Originally aired 25th of May 1988
Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa

Goku says that he will request training from Karin in order to defeat Piccolo Daimaō. With Goku on his back, Yajirobe grudgingly begins to climb Karin Tower. Having survived, Tenshinhan reunites with Bulma, Yamcha and the others. He sets off on his own to undergo intense training in order to learn the Mafūba! Meanwhile, Daimaō arrives at King Castle, which is crowded with people at the commemoration ceremony. Daimaō wipes out the army in the blink of an eye, and takes the king as a hostage!

Anime-only/filler content: Everything involving the king's celebration of his 20th term, including Suno, Hatchan and Jingle Village.

Episode 114 - Goku’s Wish!! Even Karin-sama is Worried
Dub title: Conquest and Power / Goku Gets Some Bad News
Originally aired 1st of June 1988
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Mitsuo Shindo

After taking the king hostage, Piccolo Daimaō displays his power and declares that he is the new king. Meanwhile, Goku and Yajirobe arrive at the tower’s peak. Once he’s received a senzu and had his strength restored, Goku requests training from Karin-sama. But Karin-sama says that he has nothing left to teach Goku, and informs Goku of Kame-Sen’nin’s death. Hearing this, Goku says that he will battle Daimaō and that he is prepared to die. Karin-sama then reveals the existence of the Super Sacred Water to Goku.

Anime-only/filler content: Everything involving Suno, Yajirobe nearly falling off the tower, Yajirobe seeing the king and Piccolo Daimao in the throne room, the DB Gang adjusting to life without Roshi.

Episode 115 - Get Your Hands On It! The Mysterious Super Sacred Water
Dub title: Awaken Darkness / The Mysterious Chousin Sui Water
Originally aired 8th of June 1988
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama

The Super Sacred Water is said to harbor the power of god, and will pull out the hidden power of those who drink it. Karin-sama says that it is located in an ice labyrinth in the far north, and suggests that Goku might want to go and get it. Karin-sama knows Goku’s strong will, and guides him to a pot that leads to the ice labyrinth. Goku advances through the ice labyrinth, and reunites with Yajirobe, who had fallen in through the wrong jar. Together they go in search of the Super Sacred Water, but…

Anime-only/filler content: Piano rejecting Daimao's buffet, Goku's quest for the Super Sacred Water (see below), Suno at the castle and trying to shoot Piccolo's head off with a rifle. (Written by Michiru Shimada)

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Interesting trivia:

• The Japanese title of Episode 111 (and its corresponding manga chapter, 146) is arguably a little mis-leading. It's called "Kame-Sen'nin's Final Mafuba!!", only Roshi had never previously used the move himself; that was his master Mutaito.
• The sketch of Shen Long on the cover of Chapter 147 would be the basis for an incredibly common promotional picture of him, which has been used for things like the spine art of the Blue Bricks or promotional material for Kai.
• Piccolo Daimao unearths seven Dragon Balls from the ground, which then float around him. In the next scene, the correct number, five, are floating around him, and he retrieves the other two from his throat.
• Piccolo's wish in episode 112 generated the negative energy that would birth Si Xing Long, the Four-Star Evil Dragon.
• One does wonder -- if Chiaotzu had succeeded in wishing for Piccolo to die, would the dragon have been able to grant it? Shen Long states in DBZ episode 21 that he couldn't kill Vegeta and Nappa, as doing so would exceed the power of God. On top of this, killing Piccolo would have also killed God, and thus eliminated Shen Long.
• Until Goku Black in Super, Daimao was the only villain to actually succeed in getting his wish granted by an Eternal Dragon. He's also the only character with the pragmatacism to actually KILL the dragon, something that wasn't implied to be possible at all.
• Current recurring death tallies:
  • Chiaotzu: 1
  • Roshi: 1
  • Kuririn: 1
  • The moon: 1
• Episode 112 is the last time Upa would appear in manga-based material. In the anime, he'd appear again during Saiyan Arc filler before contributing to Goku's Spirit Bomb to defeat Buu.
• The scene where Piano explains the geo-political structure of the Dragon World to Daimao is the only time this subject has ever been delved into and explained.
• As is well known by this point, in the manga Karin has the Super Sacred Water already on him and gives it to Goku to try. The anime meanwhile puts him and Yajirobe on a quest to find it within an ice maze that takes two episodes.
  • In Dragon Ball Kai, this filler is glossed over by focusing on two shots of Goku drinking the water, as well as a shot of Karin standing in front of his jars after sending Goku and Yajirobe on his way.
• Not mentioned as much is the filler expanding what happens at Central City: as Daimao storms the castle, he interrupts a global celebration with Suno present, bringing her and Hatchan back into the main storyline as the world falls apart around them until Goku defeats Daimao. After this, she would not be seen again until she contributes to Goku's Spirit Bomb, similar to Upa.
• In episode 113's Blue Water dub, a guard says "We have a situation here; a big green situation!" This would be a perfectly fine line when it aired (and is essentially what was said in the original Japanese, going by the subtitles), but nowadays, with the Big Green dub, in which Piccolo's name is Big Green, being a meme in the fandom, this becomes hilarious. Doubly so when one consideres that only a few months after this episode first aired in the UK, the Big Green dub movies would being airing on UK TV.
• The title page of Chapter 149 has an image of Yajirobe eating that would be used as a shot in the second version of the Dragon Ball intro. This Chapter also has a weekly author note where Toriyama notes he caught a cold when wearing short sleeves outside in winter.
• The title page for Chapter 150, meanwhile, is of Toriyama sitting at a kotatsu table with his cat Koge, apologizing that he was now too sick to draw a real title page as the manga content itself took everything he had.
  • This title page is also where he reveals that Karin's closed eyes referred to Koge's face when sleeping.
• Episode 114 is where the context of Senzu Beans is changed to what we know them as today. In their original appearance, they only filled Goku's belly (which they still do to Yajirobe), but here it's revealed that they can also heal injuries, to the extent that they repair Gohan's broken neck on Namek.
• In episode 115, Piccolo has food made for him. We will later find out that Namekians have no need for food, only water, so presumably he's doing this to enjoy the food, and as a power move, rather than for any kind of sustenance. (Or possibly whatever his demon clan ties did to him that made him tall and made his children demons, also made him require food)
• The title page of Chapter 151 has a picture of Karin with the Super Sacred Water on his head, which would be used in a new background for Dragon Ball's third ED.
• Goku drinking the Super Sacred Water conjures up imagery of his much more powerful Oozaru form, which had not been seen since Episode 27, aired two years prior.

Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, and trivia co-written, by KBABZ.

[ABED]

I'm getting a little ahead of you but I prefer Goku having to go on a quest to find the water instead of Karin going off panel to fetch the water. For Goku to have to go through a trial to find it and prove himself is more interesting than a convenient plot device that another character has lying around. Granted even in the manga, Goku goes through agony after drinking it, it feels easier than it should. The filler episode this week where they search the ice cavern is mostly boring but the episode after this one really works.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Notes about this week's rewatch episode set:

- This is the only time in the series where the dragon is directly eliminated by another being after having a wish granted but before he can return to the balls, as the other time where a summoned dragon dies (albeit before the wishes are done being said) is during the Freeza arc when Polunga extinguishes due to the Grand Elder's passing and Namek's Dragon Balls becoming inert.

- Here we see the King of the World's (King Furry/Koku-o) first proper appearance in the series, and really the first bit we see of the political setup of Dragon Ball's Earth. It is later referenced to some extent sometime in DBZ during the Cell arc that he is the latest in a bloodline of dog kings as the portraits behind him shows, though a side story in DBZ: Kakarot states he was formerly human and had turned himself into an animal person/Beastman at some point with a transformative drug called Animorphaline even when this directly conflicts with both the manga and anime itself in regard to the former.

- Piccolo's fear of the Denshin Jar is so silly and hilarious, that the big scary evll guy is so deathly afraid of a rice cooker all because that's what he was sealed away inside the last time by Mutaito.

[Robo4900]

I'm getting a little ahead of you

Hey, that's okay.

It has been suggested that we speed things along by increasing the number of episodes per week, but while it's been discussed, no one's ever really voiced any real support when I've offered to make the change.

but I prefer Goku having to go on a quest to find the water instead of Karin going off panel to fetch the water. For Goku to have to go through a trial to find it and prove himself is more interesting than a convenient plot device that another character has lying around. Granted even in the manga, Goku goes through agony after drinking it, it feels easier than it should. The filler episode this week where they search the ice cavern is mostly boring but the episode after this one really works.

Agreed.

"oh ok here's your power boost" is incredibly boring and contrived; "you must go through these trials to gain the power boost you need" is rather good, meanwhile.

[MyVisionity]

The name of the water in this arc is the choushinsui (Super God/Spirit Water), not the chouseisui (Super Holy/Sacred Water) from the Red Ribbon arc. Mandelin's subtitles also get them mixed up.

[ArmenianPepsi]

I'm getting a little ahead of you but I prefer Goku having to go on a quest to find the water instead of Karin going off panel to fetch the water. For Goku to have to go through a trial to find it and prove himself is more interesting than a convenient plot device that another character has lying around. Granted even in the manga, Goku goes through agony after drinking it, it feels easier than it should. The filler episode this week where they search the ice cavern is mostly boring but the episode after this one really works.

Perfectly put. Having the characters actually have to work for their new abilities and powers is always more satisfying to see than just having it handed to them with no effort. It destroys any tension in the story when a character can just find the magic key to their goal without doing anything. Makes the pay off of having Goku beat the hell out of Daimao much more worthwhile.

[ArmenianPepsi]

Notes about this week's rewatch episode set:

- This is the only time in the series where the dragon is directly eliminated by another being after having a wish granted but before he can return to the balls, as the other time where a summoned dragon dies (albeit before the wishes are done being said) is during the Freeza arc when Polunga extinguishes due to the Grand Elder's passing and Namek's Dragon Balls becoming inert.

Well that's pretty interesting to know. Suprised that this kind of twist hasn't been done again, with having some villain just straight up kill the dragon.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Notes about this week's rewatch episode set:

- This is the only time in the series where the dragon is directly eliminated by another being after having a wish granted but before he can return to the balls, as the other time where a summoned dragon dies (albeit before the wishes are done being said) is during the Freeza arc when Polunga extinguishes due to the Grand Elder's passing and Namek's Dragon Balls becoming inert.

Well that's pretty interesting to know. Suprised that this kind of twist hasn't been done again, with having some villain just straight up kill the dragon.

Yeah, i believe Piccolo Daimao destroying Shenron before he can return into the Dragon Balls and them dispersing is the one and only time that thing has ever been done in the entire original run of the series. As i mentioned above the other happened due to Polunga and thus the Namekian Dragon Ball's existence being tied to the Grand Elder and his death in said episode before Freeza catches up to Gohan, Krillin, Vegeta and Dende causes them to both stop functioning. It's the same overall scenario as with Kami on Earth.

[ArmenianPepsi]

I really do like how they expand upon Roshi's flashback encounter with Daimao. Really expanded the scope of just how villainous Daimao really was, and the kind of terror he would bring down with his demons. Also the Mafuba is a really cool move, wonder if we will ever see it brought up again in future DB media, since Roshi and Tien both know how to perform it.

[Robo4900]

I really do like how they expand upon Roshi's flashback encounter with Daimao. Really expanded the scope of just how villainous Daimao really was, and the kind of terror he would bring down with his demons. Also the Mafuba is a really cool move, wonder if we will ever see it brought up again in future DB media, since Roshi and Tien both know how to perform it.

Well, it was brought back in Super, but despite them building it up a lot, it ended up not mattering; it was basically just a little fanservicey divergeance in the plot. Off the top of my head, I think the manga version of that arc actually didn't have that story thread at all.

[KBABZ]

I really do like how they expand upon Roshi's flashback encounter with Daimao. Really expanded the scope of just how villainous Daimao really was, and the kind of terror he would bring down with his demons. Also the Mafuba is a really cool move, wonder if we will ever see it brought up again in future DB media, since Roshi and Tien both know how to perform it.

Well, it was brought back in Super, but despite them building it up a lot, it ended up not mattering; it was basically just a little fanservicey divergeance in the plot. Off the top of my head, I think the manga version of that arc actually didn't have that story thread at all.

Not to mention it kinda broke the existing lore of the Mafuba where it's supposed to kill the user if its done successfully.

[Robo4900]

I really do like how they expand upon Roshi's flashback encounter with Daimao. Really expanded the scope of just how villainous Daimao really was, and the kind of terror he would bring down with his demons. Also the Mafuba is a really cool move, wonder if we will ever see it brought up again in future DB media, since Roshi and Tien both know how to perform it.

Well, it was brought back in Super, but despite them building it up a lot, it ended up not mattering; it was basically just a little fanservicey divergeance in the plot. Off the top of my head, I think the manga version of that arc actually didn't have that story thread at all.

Not to mention it kinda broke the existing lore of the Mafuba where it's supposed to kill the user if its done successfully.

Yeah. The guys in Super who use it don't even break a sweat. Kinda takes all the oomph out of the move, if you ask me. And it's quite a surprise, given how well they handled the return of Kaioken; not only did they have Goku's body go completely out of whack after using it, they had a whole episode dealing with the aftermath of him using it (which was one of Super's best episodes).

[ABED]

Forget about lore. The Kikoho was also supposed to operate in a similar way - it is a drain on the life force because of how much power it takes to use but it stands to reason that the stronger you get, the less percentage of your energy it takes to use.

The Kaioken thing isn't about lore either. Goku could use the Kaioken just fine in the Saiyan arc. It's when he uses higher multipliers that it becomes an issue for him. However, by the time he reaches Namek, he can use Kaio-ken x10 with ease because he trained for it and he's far stronger.

[Robo4900]

Forget about lore. The Kikoho was also supposed to operate in a similar way - it is a drain on the life force because of how much power it takes to use but it stands to reason that the stronger you get, the less percentage of your energy it takes to use.

Surely, then, if the move has a set strength, and you get stronger, and use a version that doesn't put any strain on you, it would also not be strong enough to trap whoever you're trapping in a jar?

Either way, this isn't really about the pre-established "rules" or "lore", it's about the fact that the move is cool because it's a risk; it takes a lot of strain, and will likely kill you, even if you fail to use it properly. So, taking that aspect away robs the move of a lot of why it's interesting.
Ultimately, this is a story, the internal logic can be whatever it needs to be to tell the best story, so this isn't about "they got stronger, so obviously the Kikoho and the Mafuba are now easy to use", it's about "They made a deliberate choice to take the interesting, risky parts out of the Mafuba. And then it didn't matter in the story anyway."

Though, IIRC the Kikoho is still kept as a risk, even up to the Cell arc, where Ten's on the brink of death after he uses it against Cell. Dunno about Super. So, I think it's just the Mafuba, really, that they suddenly brought back after it not being used since the Piccolo arc, but they took away a lot of why it's interesting (and also kinda dug themselves into the annoying plot hole of "If it's not a risk anymore, why didn't they use it against Freeza, the cyborgs, Cell, or Boo?).

The Kaioken thing isn't about lore either. Goku could use the Kaioken just fine in the Saiyan arc. It's when he uses higher multipliers that it becomes an issue for him. However, by the time he reaches Namek, he can use Kaio-ken x10 with ease because he trained for it and he's far stronger.

Well, sure. Though at that point, the Kaioken is then basically forgotten, because Goku goes Super Saiyan. Then they bring it back with the idea of "It's easier to control Blue, so I can use the Kaioken again." But he hasn't trained on it a ton, so it's still a very difficult move, with some lasting consequences if used improperly.

[ABED]

Either way, this isn't really about the pre-established "rules" or "lore", it's about the fact that the move is cool because it's a risk; it takes a lot of strain, and will likely kill you, even if you fail to use it properly. So, taking that aspect away robs the move of a lot of why it's interesting.

Fair, though I think it's just that he's using up too much energy trying to fend off Cell which is not particular to that one move. Also if he exhausts himself too much and that doesn't kill him, Cell will get him when he's vulnerable.

[MyVisionity]

It's the Kikoho. That's why Tenshinhan was prepared to die against Cell. Goku mentions the Kikoho specifically when begging Ten to stop. Just exhausting any ordinary Ki attack wouldn't have the same risk of death.

As for the Mafuba, it's common in these kinds of stories for techniques used to seal demons to take the user's life. It's the price that comes with accomplishing something that serious. It's more about the mysticism behind the technique than the practical mechanics.

[ABED]

Fair but it's not just the Kikoho. He's prepared to die not b/c of the attack but also whom he's using it against. He used the attack with dying in the 22nd TB. He died using it in the Saiyan arc because he was already exhausted.

[Robo4900]

I like how Piccolo is so menacing, yet he's also a total goofball.

I already said I agree with others about the quest being more interesting than Karin just saying "here, have this convenient Powerup In A Can i have lying around". Feels more earned if Goku has to go through some trials to get it. Plus, Yajirobe getting stuck in the ice cave with makes for some good comedy.
Similarly, I like the filler additions of Jingle Village watching the celebrations, Suno being present... I think this arc is where Dragon Ball starts padding itself out unnecessarily, and the pacing really takes a dive (this is the part that would most benefit from a Kai-ification), but things don't actually get BAD until the Namek/Freeza arc IMO.

It's kind of a shame. I wish there was a half-Kai-ified edit of DB and Z, where the pacing is fixed up, but all the filler story additions are left intact.

[ABED]

I like it as well. The Denshi Jar being a rice cooker also works and for me doesn't diminish Piccolo one bit. Tone's a tricky thing and years ago I would've said that anything that dissipates tension or a threat is bad, but now not so much.

[Robo4900]

I like it as well. The Denshi Jar being a rice cooker also works and for me doesn't diminish Piccolo one bit. Tone's a tricky thing and years ago I would've said that anything that dissipates tension or a threat is bad, but now not so much.

Indeed.

I think, overall, consistency in tone is an overrated concept in modern pop culture.
IMO, one of the main reasons Buffy The Vampire Slayer works, and is as heartwrenchingly dark and harsh in places, is because there's frequent levity; it's a very funny show, and even in its darkest moments, isn't afraid to be goofy. So, you're sort of going up and down; you're laughing, then you're crying.
Hell, in The Irishman, Scorcese's most recent flick, it's dark and intense, but there's a lot of legitimately laugh-out-loud moments in the film. I think a lot of lesser directors would have tried to play it far straighter, and been afraid of sacrificing the seriousness of the film by having these comedic moments.

Piccolo achieving his youth wish is a great example of this, too, actually. His laughing is actually really funny to watch, and the way he suddenly ceases his laugh when he picks up the balls to make the wish... It's all very funny. He's an utter goofball, but he's also a heartless killer. Amidst all the zany behaviour, he kills Chiaotzu, gets his ultimate power, and kills the dragon. It's a dark time.
And then he goes and has a nap with his eyes open, and drinks his melon soda, etc., or recites a childrens' nursery rhyme to spit out his demon spawn...

I think Piccolo in this arc might be the perfect example of Dragon Ball's tone as a whole, to be honest; the way it mixes the darkness with the levity.