Gotenks FTL ?

[shonenhikada]

From viz media translation of the manga



Clearer Image


Gotenks actually states he travelled the globe a few dozen times. Dozen = 12, Few is anything greater than 2. For the bear minimum that's 36 times.



If you take the diamter of his trips for all 5 shown laps and compare them with that of the earth you will get these values.

Perimeter of orbit 1: 82,211 km
Perimeter of orbit 2: 75,098 km
Perimeter of orbit 3: 62,361 km
Perimeter of orbit 4: 56,406 km
Perimeter of orbit 5: 44,827 km

That's an average perimeter of 64180 km, multiply that by 36 for bear minimum and that's 2,310,501.6 KM

Now here comes the tricky part how much is a Nap really. Well if we use the anime for our unknown time T in this video we see Gotenks takes roughly 9 secs to make 9 loops, that means that it would take him 36 secs to complete 36 loops.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo1UrTw8dr4

Start video at 2:57 sec

Thus, (2,310,501.6 x 10^3) m/36 sec = 64180600 m s^-1

Speed of sound is 340 ms^-1 which is equal to mach 1.

This puts Gotenks travelling speed at Mach 188,766. Speed of Light in vaccum is 881,000 Mach. That puts gotenks travelling speed for the minimum at 0.21 Speed of Light, If goes SSJ2 this would increase to 0.42, and SSJ 3 his speed will be 1.68 Speed of light. Evidence of this comes from Super exciting guide which gives the exact multiplier of the SSJ 2 transformation, and SSJ3 to be 2x stronger than SSJ, and 4x stronger than SS2 for SSJ3.

This is the minimum speed of gotenks assume that a few means 3, if its higher so to will this number.
---
Lastly, I'd just like to point out this isn't his top speed as evident by him saying "I'm sure the speed was proof enough" indicating he can go faster if need be. Another evidenced from this is goku's snake way journey where goku used top spee and had to eat a senzu bean to restore his ki, gotenks on the other hand had plenty energy left and was confident he could beat Buu.

[Fox666]

Gotenks actually states he travelled the globe a few dozen times. Dozen = 12, Few is anything greater than 2. For the bear minimum that's 36 times.

Not sure if it is common in japanese to say "dozens", but you shouldn't take it so literally anyway.

[desirecampbell]

A few things to consider:

* We're given no time frame for the event. It could be moments or minutes.
* Gotenks' statement of "dozens" need not be accurate - he makes many exaggerated boasts.
* The image showing Gotenks flying around the earth is not to scale. It shows his ki trail to be hundreds of kilometres wide, which never happens before or after this event.
* While the SEG does give multipliers for Super Saiyan levels, this doesn't mean that speed is increased linearly.

Also, while getting a top-speed for Gotenks might be an interesting tidbit, it doesn't affect anything else. As we already have confirmed faster than light travel in Dragon Ball (most space ships, etc), we can't infer any kind of temporal or reality distortion effects FTL might cause.

[Herms]

Gotenks just says "several times" in Japanese, rather than "several dozen" or anything that big.

[Rocketman]

You're forgetting something very important. You can't accelerate to lightspeed because your mass increases exponentially as you get close, requiring you to use more energy to continue to accelerate. It's not as simple as "x4 = 4x faster!".

Unless Super Saiyan 3 grants infinite energy, Gotenks cannot move at lightspeed.

[caejones]

Perhaps, but spaceships?

But, yeah, no accurate timeframe + no accurate scale + no way of knowing if speed increases linearly with power makes the calculation purely speculative.
However, SSJ3 Gotenks is able to rip a hole in the RoSaT. I think SSJ3 is just insane enough that if Toriyama came out and said it was the only way a physical being could travel faster than light without teleporting, I'd be more willing to swallow it than just about anything (other than Vegetto).

Swallow in this context meaning accept, as the difficulty of ingesting SSJ3 Gotenks is frightening enough, let alone what happens if you time it just right and have to explain to the sergeon why you had two small boys inside you.

[Fox666]

You're forgetting something very important. You can't accelerate to lightspeed because your mass increases exponentially as you get close, requiring you to use more energy to continue to accelerate. It's not as simple as "x4 = 4x faster!".

Unless Super Saiyan 3 grants infinite energy, Gotenks cannot move at lightspeed.

Science of Ki? I don't think so.

[Rocketman]

Ki is energy being used to move mass. Unless it's infinite, it cannot move mass at the speed of light. Nothing can.

[Hellspawn28]

I think Mach 1000+/Unquantifiable would be good for Gotenks speed. I don't think any DB character is faster then light since I'm not sure if any of the Buu saga characters even reach relativistic speed by the end of the series.

[Bussani]

I wouldn't use the time in the anime as an indicator of much, either. I mean, imagine it took him...let's say five minutes to circle the Earth a few times. I know the anime likes to pad things out, but do you really want to watch that happen in real time? We probably shouldn't take it that literally.

[Fox666]

Ki is energy being used to move mass. Unless it's infinite, it cannot move mass at the speed of light. Nothing can.

"Ki" don't exist.

[shonenhikada]

I think Mach 1000+/Unquantifiable would be good for Gotenks speed. I don't think any DB character is faster then light since I'm not sure if any of the Buu saga characters even reach relativistic speed by the end of the series.

Mach 1000+ was a cop out used by OBD, because they didn't factor in gotenks took a nap, and decided he went around the world in 29 minutes. Also was it ever confirmed Japanese said only few or are we using fan translation made by people as cannon ?

[Bussani]

Also was it ever confirmed Japanese said only few or are we using fan translation made by people as cannon ?

Well, no one said it said "few". Just not a large number like "a few dozen". "Several" or "many" are closer translations from the Japanese, which were used by fans (i.e. Herms, who's one of the translators for this site) and Steve Simmons (who provided the subtitles for FUNimations DVDs) respectively. I think the only way you can be more sure than that is to learn Japanese and check for yourself.

I'm not an expert on the language, but does Japanese even have a native word for a dozen? I think they just use the English word written in katakana. If they wanted to say something like, "a few dozen", I think they might say, "several tens of," instead, much like when those magazines described some of the fusion characters.

Edit: By the way, if Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was faster than light, that would mean that the Buu who had Gohan absorbed should be significantly faster than light, right? At light speed alone you'd be able to circle the Earth more than seven times in a single second. So why did it take him so long to get to where Goku and Vegeta were? Was he just going really, really slow because he felt like it?

[shonenhikada]

Also was it ever confirmed Japanese said only few or are we using fan translation made by people as cannon ?

Well, no one said it said "few". Just not a large number like "a few dozen". "Several" or "many" are closer translations from the Japanese, which were used by fans (i.e. Herms, who's one of the translators for this site) and Steve Simmons (who provided the subtitles for FUNimations DVDs) respectively. I think the only way you can be more sure than that is to learn Japanese and check for yourself.

I'm not an expert on the language, but does Japanese even have a native word for a dozen? I think they just use the English word written in katakana. If they wanted to say something like, "a few dozen", I think they might say, "several tens of," instead, much like when those magazines described some of the fusion characters.

Edit: By the way, if Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was faster than light, that would mean that the Buu who had Gohan absorbed should be significantly faster than light, right? At light speed alone you'd be able to circle the Earth more than seven times in a single second. So why did it take him so long to get to where Goku and Vegeta were? Was he just going really, really slow because he felt like it?

Plot Induced convenience. Just like many characters in DB don't decide to attack their opponent before they have chance to power up even though their a planetary threat.

Also you said Many was translated on this site...Definition of Many

Many (as an adjective)

A large number of:

e.g. "many people agreed with her"; "the solution to many of our problems"


You just contradicted yourself when you said it can't be a large number like a few dozen.

[DarkPrince_92]

Can't believe someone busted their brain for this.

[shonenhikada]

Did Akira Toriyama get this idea from watching superman (1978) movie ?

Start this video at 2:57 sec

Superman moves at FTL speed to reverse time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo1UrTw8dr4

Start this video at 0:57 sec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCsHTNP2MaU

Notice anything familiar ?

[Mystic Gohan]

Vegeta stated Speed = Power against that Cui.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Vegeta stated Speed = Power against that Cui.

Apart from the Super Saiyan Grades.

[Hitiro]

Vegeta stated Speed = Power against that Cui.

Technically this is true, while the characters are nowhere near the strength of some of the versions of Superman the speed at which they throw their punches makes up for that. In the DC universe characters like the Flash can throw punches with the power of dwarf stars because accelerating their fists to crazy speeds will increase the mass behind them. The Flash tries this against Superman once but he breaks his hand because his body can't cope with Supermans body, however he solves this dilemma through using the speed force to regulate the fundamental laws of physics so he won't be hurt while throwing them. He ends up using these punches to take out a White Martian speedster. So to say Speed = Power is exactly that. The fact that all the Z-Fighters can punch at such insane speeds without it effecting their body is proof of their durability and the fact that they can punch at those insane speeds and not be blown apart by taking punches is also proof of their durability. This is why I think that Superman would most likely lose to Goku unless he manages to grab hold of him, then it would probably be Supermans win because he is much stronger and would probably pop Goku like a piece of bubble wrap. But like I said Goku has some durability because he can survive such insane punches so maybe Superman wouldn't be able to crush him or it would take quite a while.

On the OP though I think you can't consider any of this unless you know the exact amount of time Gotenks took a nap for or whether he was exaggerating when he said he flew around the world X amount of times.

[shonenhikada]

Vegeta stated Speed = Power against that Cui.

You mean this ?

Chapter: 249 (DBZ 55), 7.4
Context: after Vegeta dodges Kui's attack
Kui: Wh…when did you…?!”
Vegeta: “When my battle power rises, it means that my speed raises too.”

Source
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=15488