I feel like I'm takin' a small risk posting this here, because I really don't want this idea ninja'd out from under me. But ya'll seem like nice folks, so I'm hopin' ya play nice.
I am testing adapting Dragonball for the big screen; because I want to do it, and I think it can be done. Before people freak out and flame this post in one fashion or another note two things:
1) I'm not anybody big. I've worked on some small things, but you probably have never heard of them.
2) On the other hand, I'm not "just" a fan. I have some industry experience, and contacts. No, I've not been hired to do this. And I know it's a longshot. But movies start somewhere, dammit. The Matrix was some brother comic-book writers who worked their butts off to make their dream true. Dragonball is a dream of mine.
I look at Dragonball as seven movies when I read the manga. Pretty ambitious, yes. Some would say that's too long, or too short, but it's my opinion. To test my theory to it's fullest, I'm adapting the Cell saga (from the moment Freeza returns to the moment Trunks beats Imperfect Cell in his timeline) with all possible plot ruthlessness. I chose this saga as my test because first, I have the necessary tools (all the manga and anime) for this saga, and, frankly, it's my favorite.
Plotwise there are a lot of great pay-off's.
The change of Vegeta from a guy who doesn't care when his... whatever Bulma is to him and son are shot out of the sky to a fellow who goes frantic when he sees his grown up son shot down in front of him.
The change of Krillin from "Maybe... we should get out of here, because Trunks said we all die..." to being willing to destroy the remote control.
Goku going from not caring about getting in touch with the others who were worried about him, to being called out on thrusting his son towards death, and sacrificing himself.
Lots of great transformations like this occur in the majority of Dragonball saga's, but I'm working on a treatment for just this saga, and it's going very well. While I write the script (pretty much straight from the manga), I'm additionally taking the animated footage and editing it along side as a storyboard. This means, essentially, NO CHEATING-- I keep track of where the characters are at all times. I cut filler instantly, and just move, move, move. While I don't know how to legally show this to you all, trust me when I promise that it is a LOT of fun to see Trunks show up, talk some smack, and quickly dispatch of Freeza JUST like in the manga without the filler, but in animated format. It is AMAZING how easily some things are edited out of the anime-- like the 10 or so guys Trunks kills in the anime for no reason other than cool factor when he first shows up.... their bodies are never seen again, because... it didn't happen in the manga. This sort of thing happens again and again in the animated format.
The problem I'm running into is of course TIME. At the rate I'm going, I'm going to have a seven hour movie, and I want to get it down to just about four. So as I re-edit, and rehash, I'm trying to get more cutthroat about everything I do. Like... Androids 19 and 20 just aren't as important-- so instead of showing their destruction initially, we just show Yamcha running up on the aftermath and them looming above.
My question... to all those hardcore enthusiasts who would answer: what stays and goes for YOU?
This is a VERY broad question, and takes some definate LOOKING at the material to give good answers.
Like I'm looking at cutting Piccolo getting momentarily shot down by Android 20 to lure the Androids into a sense of false security before Vegeta arrives. Piccolo has plenty of other intellectual moments, and it's more important to move the plot than to have this (admittedly fun) bit part. So what are the bit parts that should stay? What are the bit parts that should go?
How important it is that Vegeta "tests" Android 19's power-absorbtion (proving his intellect, which of course Piccolo must comment on), or can he just kill 19?
How many times should it be observed how awesome someone's power is? I mean, this is Dragonball, and it wouldn't feel like it if SOMEBODY wasn't saying "HOLY COW... THIS IS WHAT SUPER SAIYA-JIN IS LIKE!?" But how many times can you get away with saying that in a MOVIE? And who is it most important to be the observer? Yamcha, the doubter? Vegeta the jealous? Piccolo the wise? Krillin the frightened? Tienshinhan the critical? Gohan the amazed? Bulma the clueless? That's not even MENTIONING the baddies! Really crack down and think this one out...
I really would appreciate some thought-out feedback, and also people not stealing this idea. I've put in a lot of work of editing and planning to start this project, and I've found myself having to go back and recut as my running time keeps ending up too long. Right now I'm at about 2 hours of movie, and Gero is about to activate the other Androids, and that's just TOO LONG. I'm sure, if I really bust my chops, I can bring this in to a 4-5 hour flick. But I wanted to come to some fellow fans and see what they needed to stay, and didn't mind seeing go. Think about this like the REAL THING-- as if this was the live action Dragonball movie that you've always dreaded, but kind of wished SOMEBODY could do right. Better than Jackson did LotR (which is a helluva task, 'cause those flicks were pretty descent). A true adaptation.
If you have any questions about my project thus far, feel free to ask, and if I can answer, I will!
Thank you for your feedback, it is really appreciated. Help me do this right, and maybe we'll all get somethin' cool out of it.
What's IMPORTANT in the Cell saga... MOVIE ADAPTATION QUEST
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What's IMPORTANT in the Cell saga... MOVIE ADAPTATION QUEST
"The emptier one's head is, the more room there is to pack in dreams..."
I always entertained the idea of somehow getting my hands on all the anime clips and then sawing all the filler out of it. But this goes even further than that. It sounds great.
You could probably make the Androids into it's own movie, couldn't you? Then just as Cell appears it would be a great cliffhanger.
Also, wouldn't the music become all jumpy when you start cutting out scenes? It would be noticeable.
You could probably make the Androids into it's own movie, couldn't you? Then just as Cell appears it would be a great cliffhanger.
Also, wouldn't the music become all jumpy when you start cutting out scenes? It would be noticeable.
[i]"I have yet to show you, young warrior, what I'm truly capable of."[/i] - Cell
I really think to tackle all 42 volumes, it's gotta be seven movies.
I don't have the early splits EXACTLY, but...
1) Initial probably through the first tournament
2) Probably Red Ribbon all the way
3) Tienshinhan thru Piccolo
I'm pretty sure on the later stuff:
4) Piccolo Jr. onto Vegeta leaving Earth
5) Going to Namek to Freeza's "Death"
6) Freeza on Earth to Cell dying in the Future
7) "Five Years Later" to the end
And when I first started I thought that by just sawing out the filler I could get things down a lot... and that's true, but there's still some other "good" stuff that has to be cut as well. I might for my own enjoyment leave an 8 hour version of this film lying around, but for my experiment's sake, it's gotta be half that. If I'm going to pitch this, I have to prove I can tackle the material in a reasonable length.
As for Cell showing up and ending it... it doesn't allow all the emotional pay-off's. If ya really think about it, leading up to Cell all the characters show faults and flaws, and most of their pay-off's (except for Piccolo) come in the second half of things.
Cell showing up might be the pre- "intermission". I really badly, in all my Dragonball-geeky-ness, crave the little "Cha La Head Cha La" commercial break bit for an intermission on the big screen. If you divide the manga content exactly, the break should actually be right before Perfect Cell is born. So, Vegeta choses to let Cell expand, pretty lights, and cue the intermission. But we'll see... it's all about hittin' the emotional chords right.
I don't have the early splits EXACTLY, but...
1) Initial probably through the first tournament
2) Probably Red Ribbon all the way
3) Tienshinhan thru Piccolo
I'm pretty sure on the later stuff:
4) Piccolo Jr. onto Vegeta leaving Earth
5) Going to Namek to Freeza's "Death"
6) Freeza on Earth to Cell dying in the Future
7) "Five Years Later" to the end
And when I first started I thought that by just sawing out the filler I could get things down a lot... and that's true, but there's still some other "good" stuff that has to be cut as well. I might for my own enjoyment leave an 8 hour version of this film lying around, but for my experiment's sake, it's gotta be half that. If I'm going to pitch this, I have to prove I can tackle the material in a reasonable length.
As for Cell showing up and ending it... it doesn't allow all the emotional pay-off's. If ya really think about it, leading up to Cell all the characters show faults and flaws, and most of their pay-off's (except for Piccolo) come in the second half of things.
Cell showing up might be the pre- "intermission". I really badly, in all my Dragonball-geeky-ness, crave the little "Cha La Head Cha La" commercial break bit for an intermission on the big screen. If you divide the manga content exactly, the break should actually be right before Perfect Cell is born. So, Vegeta choses to let Cell expand, pretty lights, and cue the intermission. But we'll see... it's all about hittin' the emotional chords right.
"The emptier one's head is, the more room there is to pack in dreams..."
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nathantheguitarist
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Basically, I'm workin' on a pitch.
I'm writing a screenplay, and editing an "animated storyboard" using the already existing animation. Which means, essentially, you can watch the movie I would be proposing.
My question to the fine people of this message board is a broad "what is essential to you"?
So many times people get upset about things being cut from a story they love. And as I make these tough decisions, I find myself a little torn as well. So I wanted to come to some other fans and see if they had any opinions to share...
I'm writing a screenplay, and editing an "animated storyboard" using the already existing animation. Which means, essentially, you can watch the movie I would be proposing.
My question to the fine people of this message board is a broad "what is essential to you"?
So many times people get upset about things being cut from a story they love. And as I make these tough decisions, I find myself a little torn as well. So I wanted to come to some other fans and see if they had any opinions to share...
"The emptier one's head is, the more room there is to pack in dreams..."
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MajinMetroid
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This is obvious but I'd say Gohan has to be centric to the story. If you can find the space, I'd go as far as even adding a bit here and there in the early parts just to highlight that. As movies go, I think a successful adaptation of the source material would make him the main character all the way through. Show us the Cell Saga through his eyes. Take us from the little boy who lost our father to finding him again to losing him again and becoming a man and saving the world.
Also, highlight the contrast between the Trunks/Vegeta relationship and his own relationship with his father. This would be a big Father/Son movie.
To drive that Parent/Father/Son theme further, you could highlight the theme of Cell's lineage. Is Dr. Gero his father or is Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta and Aunt May and whoever else's cell's he's got in there.
Also, highlight the contrast between the Trunks/Vegeta relationship and his own relationship with his father. This would be a big Father/Son movie.
To drive that Parent/Father/Son theme further, you could highlight the theme of Cell's lineage. Is Dr. Gero his father or is Goku, Piccolo, Vegeta and Aunt May and whoever else's cell's he's got in there.
MajinMetroid--
It's true-- Gohan's gotta be the front and center by the time it's all said and done. Balancing that and the true ensemble nature of the piece has been interesting. Gohan really shows up as "awed" throughout, until he's being thrust upon to the point his father is beating the tar out of him.
I really do think it starts off well though-- the movie begins with Gohan feeling Freeza, getting the phone call, and suiting up.
Definately this is the father/son movie. With all the Vegeta/Trunks stuff, yea, but Piccolo factors in a large way for me as well. A lot of what I've done is taken out things not in the manga, but every once in awhile an anime moment survives-- there's this small moment after Vegeta predicts this is the end of Earth when Freeza arrives, and Gohan wigs out a little, and Piccolo puts a hand on his shoulder... and when four hours later Piccolo is screaming at Goku for the position he's put Gohan in... gah, Dragonball kicks ass, but we all already know that.
I'll have to look into playing more with Cell's parents. Gero as parent to the Androids is one of the few things I want to leave a bit of... other than that, I want to rush through him as quickly as possible.
Great stuff so far everybody, but don't be afraid to go more specific!
It's true-- Gohan's gotta be the front and center by the time it's all said and done. Balancing that and the true ensemble nature of the piece has been interesting. Gohan really shows up as "awed" throughout, until he's being thrust upon to the point his father is beating the tar out of him.
I really do think it starts off well though-- the movie begins with Gohan feeling Freeza, getting the phone call, and suiting up.
Definately this is the father/son movie. With all the Vegeta/Trunks stuff, yea, but Piccolo factors in a large way for me as well. A lot of what I've done is taken out things not in the manga, but every once in awhile an anime moment survives-- there's this small moment after Vegeta predicts this is the end of Earth when Freeza arrives, and Gohan wigs out a little, and Piccolo puts a hand on his shoulder... and when four hours later Piccolo is screaming at Goku for the position he's put Gohan in... gah, Dragonball kicks ass, but we all already know that.
I'll have to look into playing more with Cell's parents. Gero as parent to the Androids is one of the few things I want to leave a bit of... other than that, I want to rush through him as quickly as possible.
Great stuff so far everybody, but don't be afraid to go more specific!
"The emptier one's head is, the more room there is to pack in dreams..."
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nathantheguitarist
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Holy cow, I did miss that.
MUSIC!!
Right now, as an animated storyboard, it doesn't matter a lick. The most important thing to me is visually keeping it intact and "keeping all the balls in the air" as far as the juggling act of moving characters around.
After I get a full working cut done, I might go back and try to adjust all the non-speaking scenes to take care of their musical problems, so it'll make it "easier" to watch. When I say "adjust" I mean, spend hours finding all the fighting, powering up, exploding, etc. sound effects without music, and then putting them in and chosing my own favorite Dragonball themes to enter as needed. The audio in this regard is a wild beast, but again, it's not "fully" necessary. I want it, because it makes it more fun, yes. We'll see what all I can accomplish with fading when it comes down to it. Also, and this sounds bad, but the Dragonball music, as much as I love it, does a lot generic looping within songs. There have been several times when I've been able to get away with cuts without it being noticable.
Overall, though, the Japanese material really doesn't have a TON of music... they use plenty of silence, especially for the basic dialog scenes. Which is very helpful. More often, the dramatic filler contains heaps of music... and it's already lying on the cutting room floor.
Hope I answered the question properly... sorry for missin' it on the first go 'round...
MUSIC!!
Right now, as an animated storyboard, it doesn't matter a lick. The most important thing to me is visually keeping it intact and "keeping all the balls in the air" as far as the juggling act of moving characters around.
After I get a full working cut done, I might go back and try to adjust all the non-speaking scenes to take care of their musical problems, so it'll make it "easier" to watch. When I say "adjust" I mean, spend hours finding all the fighting, powering up, exploding, etc. sound effects without music, and then putting them in and chosing my own favorite Dragonball themes to enter as needed. The audio in this regard is a wild beast, but again, it's not "fully" necessary. I want it, because it makes it more fun, yes. We'll see what all I can accomplish with fading when it comes down to it. Also, and this sounds bad, but the Dragonball music, as much as I love it, does a lot generic looping within songs. There have been several times when I've been able to get away with cuts without it being noticable.
Overall, though, the Japanese material really doesn't have a TON of music... they use plenty of silence, especially for the basic dialog scenes. Which is very helpful. More often, the dramatic filler contains heaps of music... and it's already lying on the cutting room floor.
Hope I answered the question properly... sorry for missin' it on the first go 'round...
"The emptier one's head is, the more room there is to pack in dreams..."
I love how one of the first things you did was cut out all the filler. As someone who gets more enjoyment out of the Manga, I just liked hearing that phrase.
I think it may be possible to cut out Tenshinhan's Kikoho. Granted, it's awesome, but he does little else in the story at all. You could just have something else happen to distract Cell and let them get away. As long as it doesn't suck.
And maybe Vegeta could show up significantly sooner, saving a lot of the island destroying on Cell's part.
I think it may be possible to cut out Tenshinhan's Kikoho. Granted, it's awesome, but he does little else in the story at all. You could just have something else happen to distract Cell and let them get away. As long as it doesn't suck.
And maybe Vegeta could show up significantly sooner, saving a lot of the island destroying on Cell's part.
No way on the Kikoho... because one, it's cool, and because if this is the sixth Dragonball movie, dammit all, some fan of ol' three-eyes wants that scene. And they are gonna get it. : )
Ten's gotta run all over creation for the whole movie and just be a side character who goes, "damn, you're powerful", so he deserves his fifteen seconds, ya know? A bigger question with him is how many of his observations from the manga will be kept. When you read the manga, look at the running commentary-- as I stated in the original post, Ten is kind of a bewildered critic, Yamcha straight up doubts everything, Krillin just wants to pack up and leave, Piccolo is smart as hell, Vegeta is jealous as hell, etc. So how many times do we show that? When Trunks shows up, who all should react and to what extent? When 19 and 20 show up? When Goku goes SSJ to fight 19? When Vegeta shows up? When Vegeta goes SSJ? And on, and on... I'm doing okay on a case by case basis, and I'm developing some blanket rules for what to keep manga-wise, but I'm really curious to hear what some others think on issues like this...
As for Vegeta showin' up sooner... I'll have to look at the part closer...
Keep 'em comin!
Ten's gotta run all over creation for the whole movie and just be a side character who goes, "damn, you're powerful", so he deserves his fifteen seconds, ya know? A bigger question with him is how many of his observations from the manga will be kept. When you read the manga, look at the running commentary-- as I stated in the original post, Ten is kind of a bewildered critic, Yamcha straight up doubts everything, Krillin just wants to pack up and leave, Piccolo is smart as hell, Vegeta is jealous as hell, etc. So how many times do we show that? When Trunks shows up, who all should react and to what extent? When 19 and 20 show up? When Goku goes SSJ to fight 19? When Vegeta shows up? When Vegeta goes SSJ? And on, and on... I'm doing okay on a case by case basis, and I'm developing some blanket rules for what to keep manga-wise, but I'm really curious to hear what some others think on issues like this...
As for Vegeta showin' up sooner... I'll have to look at the part closer...
Keep 'em comin!
"The emptier one's head is, the more room there is to pack in dreams..."
Wow... This sounds like an awesome, albeit very large project. Good luck to you, man. 
As for what to keep or not keep, I may think of more later, but there's one piece of filler I'd really prefer to be kept: Gohan's anime SSJ transformation. In the manga, he just transforms from controlling his anger, with nothing interesting surrounding it, but in the anime, he tells Goku to go all out against him, and is angered by the fact that he can't be strong enough to help is friends and family. He finally transforms after a struggle with a full power blast from Goku.
I think it'd be really nice to have this scene as close as possible to the anime sequence, although I'm sure you could shorten it as needed. I thought the manga's transformation was rather generic and unexciting, compared to how dramatic the anime sequence was. Just what I think.
As for what to keep or not keep, I may think of more later, but there's one piece of filler I'd really prefer to be kept: Gohan's anime SSJ transformation. In the manga, he just transforms from controlling his anger, with nothing interesting surrounding it, but in the anime, he tells Goku to go all out against him, and is angered by the fact that he can't be strong enough to help is friends and family. He finally transforms after a struggle with a full power blast from Goku.
I think it'd be really nice to have this scene as close as possible to the anime sequence, although I'm sure you could shorten it as needed. I thought the manga's transformation was rather generic and unexciting, compared to how dramatic the anime sequence was. Just what I think.
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Conan the SSJ
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I'm just curious Stridex, what's your full name and what're the projects you have worked on? Not that I don't wanna believe you, it's just kinda hard to grasp after 5 years of all the live-action rumors that someone just suddenly pops up at DaizEX saying they wanna take a crack at it. And considering the DBZ craze isn't at its highest anymore, it seems hard to grasp you'd be willing to go for this long shot. Sorry for being skeptical, just curious on looking ya' up on what information our nifty internet can provide, nothing personal.
With that said, I absolutely love your ideas for the project. Though you know, every movie's gonna have to have its edits, and a 4 hour movie just isn't easy to get out anymore. Editors would be saying "It's dragging on too long" or "You're gonna lose the kids' interests by here". Naturally whomever the company hires to help you with the film is gonna wanna cut this thing down, both for budget and financial reasons. And speaking of budget and what you can do with CGI, well try not to make the thing an entirely Blue/Green Screen movie like say Star Wars Episode III or Sin City. Be as real as possible, especially with scenes taking place in the cities or Mount Pouze. Though I would understand CG-izing the battle fields for the fights, which would likely be much easier for battles to occur. For CGI work, if shows like Charmed and Smallville can look DragonBall with their effects, then I'm sure a big movie production could do much more, especially in this day and age.
While I understand the necessity for cutting practically all the filler, there would be some interesting stuff to keep that was anime-only, such as Gohan's birthday party right before the Cell Games. You could even use that to imply a conception of Goten, making sure the implying isn't over-the-top and done properly that wouldn't throw viewers and DragonBall fans for a loop. From there, I'd like to go back into the subject of length of the movie. You said you wanted it to be a minimum of 4 hours, well there's always striking a deal that the DVD release could have your own Director's Cut on it.
With that said, I absolutely love your ideas for the project. Though you know, every movie's gonna have to have its edits, and a 4 hour movie just isn't easy to get out anymore. Editors would be saying "It's dragging on too long" or "You're gonna lose the kids' interests by here". Naturally whomever the company hires to help you with the film is gonna wanna cut this thing down, both for budget and financial reasons. And speaking of budget and what you can do with CGI, well try not to make the thing an entirely Blue/Green Screen movie like say Star Wars Episode III or Sin City. Be as real as possible, especially with scenes taking place in the cities or Mount Pouze. Though I would understand CG-izing the battle fields for the fights, which would likely be much easier for battles to occur. For CGI work, if shows like Charmed and Smallville can look DragonBall with their effects, then I'm sure a big movie production could do much more, especially in this day and age.
While I understand the necessity for cutting practically all the filler, there would be some interesting stuff to keep that was anime-only, such as Gohan's birthday party right before the Cell Games. You could even use that to imply a conception of Goten, making sure the implying isn't over-the-top and done properly that wouldn't throw viewers and DragonBall fans for a loop. From there, I'd like to go back into the subject of length of the movie. You said you wanted it to be a minimum of 4 hours, well there's always striking a deal that the DVD release could have your own Director's Cut on it.
14 years later
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The S
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All I can say, is I'd kill to be in that movie. I don't care if I had to gain a ton of weight and play as Yajirobe. 
Battle High 2, starring Kyle Hebert as well as myself, has been released on Xbox 360, OUYA, PC, Linux, Mac, and Xbox One!
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GI_Judd2287
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Holy SHIT man...this one is TOUGH.
First off, I need to give you some props for even proposing this in the first place. You got balls, man, and I gotta give you some props for really trying to do this, and you definitely sound like you know what you're talking about.
Okay, I thought about some ideas since I woke up this morning, here's what I got:
- First of all, accesability is important. While I can understand wanting to be as true to the original as possible, I think that using certain things from the dub actually WOULD help the situation just a LITTLE bit. I seriously don't know anyone else in the US, outside of this specific forum, that say "Kuririn" for instance, and I think the term "Android" or "Artificial Human" would also be a little more accessable as opposed to Jinzoningen (maybe use both terms even). I'm not saying to 'bastardize' it, but doing a few little things like that would probably make it a tiny more accessable to viewers. Not even just to those who aren't fans of DBZ, but even moreso for people who don't watch anime, as film is a completely different universe in some ways.
- Music, personally, I would make it completely new. That's the case I've seen in all movie adaptations. Music is one factor they don't often stress the hell out of themselves about, and I honestly think that if it's going to be live action, using either of the soundtracks (Japanese OR English) wouldn't exactly fit the atmosphere.
- I think a very nice beginning to the movie would be part of the Trunks special. Trunks and adult Gohan fighting 17 and 18, Gohan dies, the androids leave, Gohan gives Trunks some last words as a little difference from the original (plus it could be used to include some additional character develoupment), and Trunks goes crazy and transforms. Cut to title, begin opening credits while we go to the past where Gohan senses Freeza, and basicly starts from THERE the way you want it to begin. Trunks and Gohan take a tiny bit more precedence over Goku and Vegeta for this arc, so I think that's a good setup.
- I see Goku in the shoes of Superman in the new Justice League cartoons. He's NOT necassarily the main focus, but he's the leader, and has the almost 'heavenly' qualities to him, like that of a God. In a way, they share this quality.
- The "Trunks Saga" could be the first half hour of the movie, essentially. Everything I stated before, up until they begin the three year gap. Some details, such as Goku's who flashback to when he was on Yardrit can be taken out (How did you survive!? It's a long story, but the short version? *uses instant trasmission and everyone goes crazy* XD), and other little things.
- Second half hour, all devoted to the Androids stuffage. I think 19 and 20 CAN be left in, but they don't have to be the ultimate focus. My only concern is that Vegeta's transformation and his develoupment with Bulma (along with the eventual Baby Trunks) would be so easily skipped over because of circumstance. He IS still a very important character, obviously, so it'd be have to be done very carefully.
- Third half hour, early Cell stuff. It can easily be a continuation from the Androids segment, and by that point in the movie, it'd be a scary and intriguing surprise for him to show up to unfamiliar DBZ fans.
- Final half hour, a VERY condensed Cell Game battle. Enough of the important things should be able to be kept and still make it work. I keep thinking Mr. Satan is just gonna get in the way, but maybe if you somehow ADD him into some new scenes during earlier parts, it'd be a nicer setup for his eventual helping with throwing 16's head. Which nicely segways into:
- Additional time in between different segments, should all be devoted to develoupment. As a matter of fact, I would even go so far as to write some completely new scenes for the sake of expanding on what Toriyama never touched on. Good example? Vegeta and Bulma’s relationship. We see absolutely NOTHING between them, aside from a couple very vague filler scenes, it just HAPPENS. A couple segments, such as the 3 year gap after Trunks’ warning, and after Cell’s challenge for the Cell Games are some good places to go for that.
- In case you’re thinking about anything involving casting, some advice that I think would help give the movie a slightly more realistic feel: Any characters with Japanese names, cast with Asian actors. The Son Family, Krillin, Tien, Chaotzu etc. Other characters like Piccolo, Bulma, Trunks (maybe Vegeta too) would obviously be a little more tangeable...and Marilyn Manson as Freeza. Do it. Seriously. You can ignore all the advice I’ve given if only to do THAT XD;
You’re free to use any of those ideas. You're also free to disagree with anything I've listed, as I'm simply putting some things out on the table.I’m not gonna be persuing a career in film (animation is another story, but yeah
) but I’ll be GLAD to help, as the thought of how a DBZ live action movie has indeed crossed my mind a few times in the past years.
First off, I need to give you some props for even proposing this in the first place. You got balls, man, and I gotta give you some props for really trying to do this, and you definitely sound like you know what you're talking about.
Okay, I thought about some ideas since I woke up this morning, here's what I got:
- First of all, accesability is important. While I can understand wanting to be as true to the original as possible, I think that using certain things from the dub actually WOULD help the situation just a LITTLE bit. I seriously don't know anyone else in the US, outside of this specific forum, that say "Kuririn" for instance, and I think the term "Android" or "Artificial Human" would also be a little more accessable as opposed to Jinzoningen (maybe use both terms even). I'm not saying to 'bastardize' it, but doing a few little things like that would probably make it a tiny more accessable to viewers. Not even just to those who aren't fans of DBZ, but even moreso for people who don't watch anime, as film is a completely different universe in some ways.
- Music, personally, I would make it completely new. That's the case I've seen in all movie adaptations. Music is one factor they don't often stress the hell out of themselves about, and I honestly think that if it's going to be live action, using either of the soundtracks (Japanese OR English) wouldn't exactly fit the atmosphere.
- I think a very nice beginning to the movie would be part of the Trunks special. Trunks and adult Gohan fighting 17 and 18, Gohan dies, the androids leave, Gohan gives Trunks some last words as a little difference from the original (plus it could be used to include some additional character develoupment), and Trunks goes crazy and transforms. Cut to title, begin opening credits while we go to the past where Gohan senses Freeza, and basicly starts from THERE the way you want it to begin. Trunks and Gohan take a tiny bit more precedence over Goku and Vegeta for this arc, so I think that's a good setup.
- I see Goku in the shoes of Superman in the new Justice League cartoons. He's NOT necassarily the main focus, but he's the leader, and has the almost 'heavenly' qualities to him, like that of a God. In a way, they share this quality.
- The "Trunks Saga" could be the first half hour of the movie, essentially. Everything I stated before, up until they begin the three year gap. Some details, such as Goku's who flashback to when he was on Yardrit can be taken out (How did you survive!? It's a long story, but the short version? *uses instant trasmission and everyone goes crazy* XD), and other little things.
- Second half hour, all devoted to the Androids stuffage. I think 19 and 20 CAN be left in, but they don't have to be the ultimate focus. My only concern is that Vegeta's transformation and his develoupment with Bulma (along with the eventual Baby Trunks) would be so easily skipped over because of circumstance. He IS still a very important character, obviously, so it'd be have to be done very carefully.
- Third half hour, early Cell stuff. It can easily be a continuation from the Androids segment, and by that point in the movie, it'd be a scary and intriguing surprise for him to show up to unfamiliar DBZ fans.
- Final half hour, a VERY condensed Cell Game battle. Enough of the important things should be able to be kept and still make it work. I keep thinking Mr. Satan is just gonna get in the way, but maybe if you somehow ADD him into some new scenes during earlier parts, it'd be a nicer setup for his eventual helping with throwing 16's head. Which nicely segways into:
- Additional time in between different segments, should all be devoted to develoupment. As a matter of fact, I would even go so far as to write some completely new scenes for the sake of expanding on what Toriyama never touched on. Good example? Vegeta and Bulma’s relationship. We see absolutely NOTHING between them, aside from a couple very vague filler scenes, it just HAPPENS. A couple segments, such as the 3 year gap after Trunks’ warning, and after Cell’s challenge for the Cell Games are some good places to go for that.
- In case you’re thinking about anything involving casting, some advice that I think would help give the movie a slightly more realistic feel: Any characters with Japanese names, cast with Asian actors. The Son Family, Krillin, Tien, Chaotzu etc. Other characters like Piccolo, Bulma, Trunks (maybe Vegeta too) would obviously be a little more tangeable...and Marilyn Manson as Freeza. Do it. Seriously. You can ignore all the advice I’ve given if only to do THAT XD;
You’re free to use any of those ideas. You're also free to disagree with anything I've listed, as I'm simply putting some things out on the table.I’m not gonna be persuing a career in film (animation is another story, but yeah
) but I’ll be GLAD to help, as the thought of how a DBZ live action movie has indeed crossed my mind a few times in the past years.-
GI_Judd2287
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As a side note, I really hope it doesn't turn into this:
http://www.legendofzeldaseries.com/imag ... /fanmovie3
Fan movies are fun and all, but nine times out of ten they're laughable embarassments that you wish never existed.
http://www.legendofzeldaseries.com/imag ... /fanmovie3
Fan movies are fun and all, but nine times out of ten they're laughable embarassments that you wish never existed.
Last edited by GI_Judd2287 on Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Surrender??!! You think this letter on my head stands for France?"-- Captain America
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desirecampbell
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Firstly: much love for even trying to do this.
Secondly: Remember that as a film, people seeing this will have no idea who these characters are. Choosing the Cell saga, or even the Freeza saga, might be a mistake.
Those sagas are just too long, and packed too tightly with important stuff to make cutting it down to three hours feasible. And because this'll be the first film shown, you'll have to spend a great deal of time in exposition, detailing the characters. I mean, I would love to see a three hour Cell film, because I know the characters already - my sister would be like "who's this wonder-kid?"
I think the best choice would be a Saiyan Saga film - it's short enough that you can add in the "who are these blokes?" exposition. Hell, you could probably fit in a flashback-montage sequence to recap DragonBall (just quick though: what the Dragon Balls are, mention his tail, fighting in tournaments).
I don't think it'd be as vibrant a story as Freeza or Cell, but without the proper build up, neither of them would be as good either. Like Jackson's LOTR; you could jump in at 'King' and see the big ending, but it wouldn't mean as much as having seen the others first.
Secondly: Remember that as a film, people seeing this will have no idea who these characters are. Choosing the Cell saga, or even the Freeza saga, might be a mistake.
Those sagas are just too long, and packed too tightly with important stuff to make cutting it down to three hours feasible. And because this'll be the first film shown, you'll have to spend a great deal of time in exposition, detailing the characters. I mean, I would love to see a three hour Cell film, because I know the characters already - my sister would be like "who's this wonder-kid?"
I think the best choice would be a Saiyan Saga film - it's short enough that you can add in the "who are these blokes?" exposition. Hell, you could probably fit in a flashback-montage sequence to recap DragonBall (just quick though: what the Dragon Balls are, mention his tail, fighting in tournaments).
I don't think it'd be as vibrant a story as Freeza or Cell, but without the proper build up, neither of them would be as good either. Like Jackson's LOTR; you could jump in at 'King' and see the big ending, but it wouldn't mean as much as having seen the others first.
(é) Yeah, I'm famous. Super famous. I start things.
Toyble's DBAF | DBZ Side Stories |Jump Super Anime Tour manga | Chou Kochikame
Toyble's DBAF | DBZ Side Stories |Jump Super Anime Tour manga | Chou Kochikame
Swift:
I also really like the anime version of the transformation, and not just because of Gohan's anger in the scene, but because the extent to which Goku is willing to risk Gohan's life by firing at him full force-- it's something that really pays off later!
Conan:
Like I said, I'm "nobody". I've worked some very minimal jobs. This is for a pitch; which in all honesty means nothing. It means I've got to nag a friend who's higher on the chain than me to call in one of his favors to get me in front of somebody and then give the best damn presentation possible. Honestly, the reason I'm here is because I read this site regularly for DB news, and have for sometime (I remember the tuxedos and tulips, for cryin' out loud), and know people will be able to help me make this script / storyboard the best possible. So IF I get a shot to talk to someone, I'll have all my ducks in a row. I will say this, there's a tiny project I'm workin' on right now that I might point people to later, 'cause it's fun... but less about me for now. : )
IF I somehow get myself in any position with this franchise, the lord knows I would want to use as much "real" as possible. Surprisings, Dragonball doesn't require THAT much in terms of special effects when you think about it. There will be some grueling shoots, and figuring out all the flying mechanics will be a pain, but there is a lot of standing around outside and talking.
And of course I've thought of a lumbering DVD cut-- after seeing Jackson's extended LotR, who hasn't? But for now, getting lean and mean pitch and getting my own butt in the door is the main objective. It'll be a lot easier to add back in later. As for Goten... heheh... I've always kind of wanted a near the end SUBTLE (not in your face) shot of Chi Chi looking off into the distance at some point and doing a SUBTLE tummy touch. So all the fans in the crowd go "HELL YEA" and it's just so subtle that the other folks don't notice until they've seen the 7th movie. : )
The S:
I would kill to make it. : )
GI_Judd:
No doubt all of the training will be down to it's manga only, but a bit of it is needed to cement some relationships. I'll probably move us to finding 18 a smidge faster.
As for Goku versus Cell, that's a really good topic for debate! The only important thing about the Goku vs. Cell fight is that Gohan sees it. But after Trunks has been going on about Goku all movie long... do my fellow fans want some quality Goku time in the ring? Or should we just haul ass onto the next stage and let Gohan do the fighting?
DBZ MAN:
Yea, I've always been... hell, I continue to be timid about posting ideas here, BUT, the more I've worked on this project the more I've realized that there are VERY few who would be willing to put in the hours I've put in so far, and most of them are already bogged down with other things. So, sure, someone doing a crummier job, and slapping together a Dragonball pitch who has more contacts might go, "Yea, there's a shot of Piccolo putting his hand on Gohan's shoulder.... I think it's in the anime" and having no clue what he's talking about and is just stealing my thoughts COULD happen. But that would also make a better DB film. I hope I get this done, done right, and out the door before I'm beaten to it, but doing this right is taking such a massive amount of time, that I have a tough time imagining many others being able to weather the storm.
Kirbopher:
Best reply I've gotten yet!!
- Names are an interesting dilmena. Definately Son Goku is our hero, but I'd probably morph down to a "Krillin" if I had to go with the English language (but in all my stupid, stubborn stupidity, I'd love to keep it in Japanese, mostly for puns in the early sagas). With that said, let's not go into a lengthy discussion on casting or the chance of that happening... so far people have been mostly inside the box I've set up, and that's great! We'll worry about other bridges if I make it that far... As for subtitles or standardizing, I've always loved the literal "man-made-men" line... just to use a couple times, and then from there call 'em Androids. I think a lot people forget just how popular and accessible Dragonball has been the world over-- and that can be recreated on film.
-Music. I love the Japanese themes. If I would "kill" to make these movies, be even more sure that I'd kill again to get some sweet, "Cha La Head Cha La" action. The biggest question for me has been whether to "trump up" the music to a more orchestral score, or to keep it small, brassy, and wonderfully cheesy. These movies NEED some cheese. Intentional, Kill Bill style cheese. But, music is getting YEARS ahead of ourselves...
-I played with the idea of doing just that for the beginning more than once!! I love the "Last Ones Left" special, and there's some great material there, but at the same time, I have trouble seeing it as more important than other items. I mean, in terms of narrative, and importance to overall Dragonball, Trunks comes in and basically tells us that story in a minute flat. "They all died, except Gohan who trained me until he died, but I still can't beat the Androids. That's why I'm here." If I can find a way to sneak in more than that, I'd LOVE to, but for now, Mr. Satan even takes priority over that (a tough thought to handle, I know). Actually, a sidebar on "starting" the film... originally I cut the sequence of Goku escaping Namek as the film's opening, because I've always thought that would be a great segway from the end of a Freeza film-- "Goku's not dead... but what happened?" And starting the second film with an exploding Namek, and Goku trying desperately to survive just seemed awesome (and looked awesome, too)! Reminded me in someways of (hate to keep going back to LotR) the great start of Two Towers-- survival against fire and falling!! But, in the end... it's more important to get Freeza to earth and dead at Trunks' hands. Part of Dragonball has always been trivializing what came before... kind of a, "this time, we're even BIGGER" feel. So if I can after a quick opening, some music, a recap of the last movie, kill Freeza who it took four hours to kill last movie in a grand total of twenty minutes since you SAT DOWN... that shows we mean business. : )
-A good take on Goku for this film. But he has been our sole hero up to this point, so at the very least his death needs to hit home.
-Right now the movie has gone "We feel Freeza, Trunks shows, kills Freeza, kills Cold, we wait for Goku, Goku shows, Trunks talks to him, Trunks leaves, we discuss Yadrit, instant transmission, we all promise to meet three years later, and we're out the door" in an hour. I'm trying to cut some other things, but I run into problems like; if Trunks kills King Cold immediately after Freeza with little confrontation, is that too (pardon the pun) cold? It'd be really easy to cut from Trunks killing Freeza and landing to talk with Cold, and Cold saying "Join me", to Cold slamming into the wall with a hole in his chest-- no sword discussion or extended back and forth. Tough calls....
-And, in similar fashion, the Androids are hour two. Again, I'm running a bit long so far. 19 and 20 show up and we move our butts to beat them. But they have to stay, to show the differences in the timeline, for Goku to get sick, etc. They definately lose the "focus" though. Gero is a creator, not the baddie himself, so his and 19's fight(s) are sped up.
-Agreed fully!
-I keep thinking Satan's a problem, too... but think about this as the sixth movie in a franchise, and he's something brand new and interesting. Suddenly, our "home team" is being watched on a global scale, and this guy is the reason why. Makes for some interesting stuff!
-Bulma and Vegeta is tricky business. It is a funny Toriyama joke, that seems to be ongoing-- two people get together and magically a baby happens! We see it again and again... I mean, the romance of Goku and Chi Chi is... where in the manga? : )
-Casting is ages of anything, but if I ever got that far, it'd be a careful, careful, careful process with a lot of soul searching.
-A live action franchise would be great, albeit a long shot! Thanks a ton for the input!!
A blanket reminder to try to keep things towards just plot for now. I know it's tough, because my mind wanders as I do this as well, but if it's gonna be done, somebody's gotta do this initial legwork! Like I told Conan, I'm pretty much a nobody, but dammit all if I'm not takin' a shot... I could worry all day about if's, but's, and the like, but as that opening theme says, "An emptier head..." : )
Thanks to those who have helped thus far!!
I also really like the anime version of the transformation, and not just because of Gohan's anger in the scene, but because the extent to which Goku is willing to risk Gohan's life by firing at him full force-- it's something that really pays off later!
Conan:
Like I said, I'm "nobody". I've worked some very minimal jobs. This is for a pitch; which in all honesty means nothing. It means I've got to nag a friend who's higher on the chain than me to call in one of his favors to get me in front of somebody and then give the best damn presentation possible. Honestly, the reason I'm here is because I read this site regularly for DB news, and have for sometime (I remember the tuxedos and tulips, for cryin' out loud), and know people will be able to help me make this script / storyboard the best possible. So IF I get a shot to talk to someone, I'll have all my ducks in a row. I will say this, there's a tiny project I'm workin' on right now that I might point people to later, 'cause it's fun... but less about me for now. : )
IF I somehow get myself in any position with this franchise, the lord knows I would want to use as much "real" as possible. Surprisings, Dragonball doesn't require THAT much in terms of special effects when you think about it. There will be some grueling shoots, and figuring out all the flying mechanics will be a pain, but there is a lot of standing around outside and talking.
And of course I've thought of a lumbering DVD cut-- after seeing Jackson's extended LotR, who hasn't? But for now, getting lean and mean pitch and getting my own butt in the door is the main objective. It'll be a lot easier to add back in later. As for Goten... heheh... I've always kind of wanted a near the end SUBTLE (not in your face) shot of Chi Chi looking off into the distance at some point and doing a SUBTLE tummy touch. So all the fans in the crowd go "HELL YEA" and it's just so subtle that the other folks don't notice until they've seen the 7th movie. : )
The S:
I would kill to make it. : )
GI_Judd:
No doubt all of the training will be down to it's manga only, but a bit of it is needed to cement some relationships. I'll probably move us to finding 18 a smidge faster.
As for Goku versus Cell, that's a really good topic for debate! The only important thing about the Goku vs. Cell fight is that Gohan sees it. But after Trunks has been going on about Goku all movie long... do my fellow fans want some quality Goku time in the ring? Or should we just haul ass onto the next stage and let Gohan do the fighting?
DBZ MAN:
Yea, I've always been... hell, I continue to be timid about posting ideas here, BUT, the more I've worked on this project the more I've realized that there are VERY few who would be willing to put in the hours I've put in so far, and most of them are already bogged down with other things. So, sure, someone doing a crummier job, and slapping together a Dragonball pitch who has more contacts might go, "Yea, there's a shot of Piccolo putting his hand on Gohan's shoulder.... I think it's in the anime" and having no clue what he's talking about and is just stealing my thoughts COULD happen. But that would also make a better DB film. I hope I get this done, done right, and out the door before I'm beaten to it, but doing this right is taking such a massive amount of time, that I have a tough time imagining many others being able to weather the storm.
Kirbopher:
Best reply I've gotten yet!!
- Names are an interesting dilmena. Definately Son Goku is our hero, but I'd probably morph down to a "Krillin" if I had to go with the English language (but in all my stupid, stubborn stupidity, I'd love to keep it in Japanese, mostly for puns in the early sagas). With that said, let's not go into a lengthy discussion on casting or the chance of that happening... so far people have been mostly inside the box I've set up, and that's great! We'll worry about other bridges if I make it that far... As for subtitles or standardizing, I've always loved the literal "man-made-men" line... just to use a couple times, and then from there call 'em Androids. I think a lot people forget just how popular and accessible Dragonball has been the world over-- and that can be recreated on film.
-Music. I love the Japanese themes. If I would "kill" to make these movies, be even more sure that I'd kill again to get some sweet, "Cha La Head Cha La" action. The biggest question for me has been whether to "trump up" the music to a more orchestral score, or to keep it small, brassy, and wonderfully cheesy. These movies NEED some cheese. Intentional, Kill Bill style cheese. But, music is getting YEARS ahead of ourselves...
-I played with the idea of doing just that for the beginning more than once!! I love the "Last Ones Left" special, and there's some great material there, but at the same time, I have trouble seeing it as more important than other items. I mean, in terms of narrative, and importance to overall Dragonball, Trunks comes in and basically tells us that story in a minute flat. "They all died, except Gohan who trained me until he died, but I still can't beat the Androids. That's why I'm here." If I can find a way to sneak in more than that, I'd LOVE to, but for now, Mr. Satan even takes priority over that (a tough thought to handle, I know). Actually, a sidebar on "starting" the film... originally I cut the sequence of Goku escaping Namek as the film's opening, because I've always thought that would be a great segway from the end of a Freeza film-- "Goku's not dead... but what happened?" And starting the second film with an exploding Namek, and Goku trying desperately to survive just seemed awesome (and looked awesome, too)! Reminded me in someways of (hate to keep going back to LotR) the great start of Two Towers-- survival against fire and falling!! But, in the end... it's more important to get Freeza to earth and dead at Trunks' hands. Part of Dragonball has always been trivializing what came before... kind of a, "this time, we're even BIGGER" feel. So if I can after a quick opening, some music, a recap of the last movie, kill Freeza who it took four hours to kill last movie in a grand total of twenty minutes since you SAT DOWN... that shows we mean business. : )
-A good take on Goku for this film. But he has been our sole hero up to this point, so at the very least his death needs to hit home.
-Right now the movie has gone "We feel Freeza, Trunks shows, kills Freeza, kills Cold, we wait for Goku, Goku shows, Trunks talks to him, Trunks leaves, we discuss Yadrit, instant transmission, we all promise to meet three years later, and we're out the door" in an hour. I'm trying to cut some other things, but I run into problems like; if Trunks kills King Cold immediately after Freeza with little confrontation, is that too (pardon the pun) cold? It'd be really easy to cut from Trunks killing Freeza and landing to talk with Cold, and Cold saying "Join me", to Cold slamming into the wall with a hole in his chest-- no sword discussion or extended back and forth. Tough calls....
-And, in similar fashion, the Androids are hour two. Again, I'm running a bit long so far. 19 and 20 show up and we move our butts to beat them. But they have to stay, to show the differences in the timeline, for Goku to get sick, etc. They definately lose the "focus" though. Gero is a creator, not the baddie himself, so his and 19's fight(s) are sped up.
-Agreed fully!
-I keep thinking Satan's a problem, too... but think about this as the sixth movie in a franchise, and he's something brand new and interesting. Suddenly, our "home team" is being watched on a global scale, and this guy is the reason why. Makes for some interesting stuff!
-Bulma and Vegeta is tricky business. It is a funny Toriyama joke, that seems to be ongoing-- two people get together and magically a baby happens! We see it again and again... I mean, the romance of Goku and Chi Chi is... where in the manga? : )
-Casting is ages of anything, but if I ever got that far, it'd be a careful, careful, careful process with a lot of soul searching.
-A live action franchise would be great, albeit a long shot! Thanks a ton for the input!!
A blanket reminder to try to keep things towards just plot for now. I know it's tough, because my mind wanders as I do this as well, but if it's gonna be done, somebody's gotta do this initial legwork! Like I told Conan, I'm pretty much a nobody, but dammit all if I'm not takin' a shot... I could worry all day about if's, but's, and the like, but as that opening theme says, "An emptier head..." : )
Thanks to those who have helped thus far!!
"The emptier one's head is, the more room there is to pack in dreams..."