I think it's not necessarily because he is a Saiyajin, he has more of a Human background. I think it's more so because of his passion.Doctor. wrote:Of course Goku is a prodigy. He's a prodigy compared to his friends because he's a Saiyan, and that itself already grants him higher potential than the others. He's not a prodigy, he's the farthest thing from it, when you compare him to other members of his race, and that's why I said he's "shit" who achieved success through hard work.
Does Goku have hidden potential?
Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1265
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
- Location: Where I wander
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Kuro Tenshi
I am just a simple traveller
I am just a simple traveller
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
I think that Goku has been realising most of his hidden potential throughout his life by training and fighting, he likely still has some hidden potential that he hasn't tapped into but it likely isn't a massive amount like Gohan.
- omaro34
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:27 pm
- Location: Western Canada
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Goku simply doesn't know when to give up during a fight. There might be very few exceptions to this statement, but for the vast majority of the fights throughout the series that Goku gets into, he never gives in.
That to me is more than any hidden potential can offer to a fighter.
That to me is more than any hidden potential can offer to a fighter.
"Kami is the Morgan Freeman of Dragonball Z"
Check out my Piccolo page: https://www.facebook.com/PiccoloTheSuperNamek/?ref=hl
Check out my Piccolo page: https://www.facebook.com/PiccoloTheSuperNamek/?ref=hl
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Now that's just not true at all.Doctor. wrote:Of course Goku is a prodigy. He's a prodigy compared to his friends because he's a Saiyan, and that itself already grants him higher potential than the others. He's not a prodigy, he's the farthest thing from it, when you compare him to other members of his race, and that's why I said he's "shit" who achieved success through hard work.
Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P10.1
Vegeta: “It drives me crazy, but I’ll admit it…Despite doing all that special training, I didn’t surpass Kakarot…Th-that bastard’s a genius…But Cell is 1 or 2 steps above even him…”
The whole "Goku was a low quality Saiyan" thing is only ever brought up in the Saiyan arc. It's not a recurring theme and it doesn't come up again. What DOES come up again is how special Goku is, to the point where Vegeta mentions on two separate occasions what a genius he is. This is the guy who had the whole "elite vs low class mentality" in the first place. The one person who could have continued the theme has outright said Goku is the more special one.Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”
And I'd put more stock in that when it was brought up more recently, and more than once. The idea that Goku is a hard worker who beats the elites just seems to be a fan ideal. Toriyama doesn't seem to have any interest in that any more, so Goku is the most special member of the cast.
When you compare him to the rest of the members of his race, he's number one. In fact, even in the Saiyan arc, Kaio reveals the other Saiyans are so strong because they grew up in 10x gravity environments. In only takes Goku one year in that environment to surpass all but Vegeta.
It wasn't that Goku was shit, he was raised in conditions that weren't suitable for a Saiyan. Going off Kaio's explanation, Raditz and Nappa would be much weaker if they were sent to Earth. So even in the Saiyan arc where they try to say Goku is a low class who can surpass Vegeta with hard work, he's clearly better than any other Saiyan already.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
- apex_pretador
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2081
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:17 pm
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Because goku surpassed limits of EVERY saiyan, there is no way the "low class" thing will be brought back again.Saiga wrote: The whole "Goku was a low quality Saiyan" thing is only ever brought up in the Saiyan arc. It's not a recurring theme and it doesn't come up again. What DOES come up again is how special Goku is, to the point where Vegeta mentions on two separate occasions what a genius he is. This is the guy who had the whole "elite vs low class mentality" in the first place. The one person who could have continued the theme has outright said Goku is the more special one.
He is #1 but remember what it took to be no 1:And I'd put more stock in that when it was brought up more recently, and more than once. The idea that Goku is a hard worker who beats the elites just seems to be a fan ideal. Toriyama doesn't seem to have any interest in that any more, so Goku is the most special member of the cast.
When you compare him to the rest of the members of his race, he's number one.
- He trains with roshi , who was a fighting genius.
He trains with korin, a godly being
He gets to drink divine water
He trains with god himself
He dies without reaching even half the power of a regular low class saiyan
He trains in afterlife WITH his body, allowing him to break barriers & limits, with a high level god, whose training is like thousands of years worth
He is still weaker than prince vegeta
He trains in 100x gravity to be stronger than vegeta
But he was training in the afterlife. If he was training in living world in 10x gravity, he may not have surpassed nappa.In fact, even in the Saiyan arc, Kaio reveals the other Saiyans are so strong because they grew up in 10x gravity environments. In only takes Goku one year in that environment to surpass all but Vegeta.
And this is after all the special training he received.
And if they didn't train with gohanIt wasn't that Goku was shit, he was raised in conditions that weren't suitable for a Saiyan. Going off Kaio's explanation, Raditz and Nappa would be much weaker if they were sent to Earth.
And if they didn't train with roshi
And if they didn't train with korin
And if they didn't drink divine water
And if they didn't train with god
AND if they never got equal (or superior) opponents like daimao, tao, tenshinhan , Ma Jr etc.
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
No, Kaio makes it pretty clear how important the 10x gravity is for their development. Otherwise he wouldn't hype that up about his planet. If Raditz and Nappa's methods were worse than if they'd trained with Earth's masters, it would make no sense for Kaio to say "they're strong because they were raised in this gravity". He'd be saying "they were raised in this gravity, which is irrelevant because Earth's methods are better and they'd actually be even stronger if they went through that, so forget I said anything because this makes no fucking sense".
If Raditz and Nappa went through everything Goku did they'd be weaker, OTHERWISE what Kaio says just doesn't make any logical sense at all and he's a goddamn idiot.
Also, the training clearly isn't worth 1000 years and Goku doesn't get 1,000x more gains from doing it then he does with his other training.
If Raditz and Nappa went through everything Goku did they'd be weaker, OTHERWISE what Kaio says just doesn't make any logical sense at all and he's a goddamn idiot.
Also, the training clearly isn't worth 1000 years and Goku doesn't get 1,000x more gains from doing it then he does with his other training.

I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
- apex_pretador
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2081
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:17 pm
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
I'm not saying that raditz / nappa will be stronger than they were in canon if they were sent on earth, but that they will be well above goku's 416 if they were on earth AND received same training as goku did on earth.Saiga wrote:No, Kaio makes it pretty clear how important the 10x gravity is for their development. Otherwise he wouldn't hype that up about his planet. If Raditz and Nappa's methods were worse than if they'd trained with Earth's masters, it would make no sense for Kaio to say "they're strong because they were raised in this gravity". He'd be saying "they were raised in this gravity, which is irrelevant because Earth's methods are better and they'd actually be even stronger if they went through that, so forget I said anything because this makes no fucking sense".
If Raditz and Nappa went through everything Goku did they'd be weaker, OTHERWISE what Kaio says just doesn't make any logical sense at all and he's a goddamn idiot.
Also, the training clearly isn't worth 1000 years and Goku doesn't get 1,000x more gains from doing it then he does with his other training.
And kaio's training is definitely >>> any simple , regular 10x gravity training.
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
There's absolutely nothing to support they would be stronger than Goku's 416.
I don't think a year of Kaio's training is worth more than a lifetime of 10x gravity. Otherwise the fact that Kaio's planet has 10x gravity wouldn't be as significant as Kaio says.
I don't think a year of Kaio's training is worth more than a lifetime of 10x gravity. Otherwise the fact that Kaio's planet has 10x gravity wouldn't be as significant as Kaio says.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Yeah, Toriyama is pretty inconsistent with his themes. Seems like he just shoehorned this into the Saiyan arc to make the Vegeta battle feel more special.Saiga wrote:The whole "Goku was a low quality Saiyan" thing is only ever brought up in the Saiyan arc. It's not a recurring theme and it doesn't come up again.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
There's little reason for it to though. The concept gets introduced by Vegeta, Goku proves that he's factually wrong and consistently keeps proving him wrong with every increase in power. There's really no need for it to keep being brought up.Kid Buu wrote:Yeah, Toriyama is pretty inconsistent with his themes. Seems like he just shoehorned this into the Saiyan arc to make the Vegeta battle feel more special.Saiga wrote:The whole "Goku was a low quality Saiyan" thing is only ever brought up in the Saiyan arc. It's not a recurring theme and it doesn't come up again.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
I interpret that more as Vegeta's inferiority complex acting up, rather than Goku actually being "special". He knows a lot about martial arts due to his hard work and training over the years, but that's about it.Saiga wrote:The whole "Goku was a low quality Saiyan" thing is only ever brought up in the Saiyan arc. It's not a recurring theme and it doesn't come up again. What DOES come up again is how special Goku is, to the point where Vegeta mentions on two separate occasions what a genius he is. This is the guy who had the whole "elite vs low class mentality" in the first place. The one person who could have continued the theme has outright said Goku is the more special one.
And I'd put more stock in that when it was brought up more recently, and more than once. The idea that Goku is a hard worker who beats the elites just seems to be a fan ideal. Toriyama doesn't seem to have any interest in that any more, so Goku is the most special member of the cast.
When you compare him to the rest of the members of his race, he's number one. In fact, even in the Saiyan arc, Kaio reveals the other Saiyans are so strong because they grew up in 10x gravity environments. In only takes Goku one year in that environment to surpass all but Vegeta.
It wasn't that Goku was shit, he was raised in conditions that weren't suitable for a Saiyan. Going off Kaio's explanation, Raditz and Nappa would be much weaker if they were sent to Earth. So even in the Saiyan arc where they try to say Goku is a low class who can surpass Vegeta with hard work, he's clearly better than any other Saiyan already.
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
I agree with those who say the appeal of Goku's character is that he works for his strength. I love the fact that even when Gohan and Gotenks have completely surpassed him in the Buu saga, it's still clear that Goku's the more seasoned fighter. I love how he continues to train after the battle with Buu, and is implied to have surpassed Gohan by the start BoG purely from training 24/7. I also love Gohan's whole limitless potential thing, and how him getting angry can make potentially make him unstoppable, but Goku is a different kind of badass. Gohan is the Hulk while Goku is Bruce Lee.
And it's also worth mentioning how Goku remains a superior martial artist to most opponents throughout the series, even when he's outmatched in raw power. Cell even acknowledges his hand-to-hand skills during their fight. On a side note I think Tien and Piccolo could be considered the 2nd and 3rd best martial artists in the series.
And it's also worth mentioning how Goku remains a superior martial artist to most opponents throughout the series, even when he's outmatched in raw power. Cell even acknowledges his hand-to-hand skills during their fight. On a side note I think Tien and Piccolo could be considered the 2nd and 3rd best martial artists in the series.
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Goku's boost there was due to the FP SSJ training though. Yes, it makes him a "genius" compared to Vegeta, but that's due to ingenuity as far as training goes, not having a higher natural power.Saiga wrote:Now that's just not true at all.Doctor. wrote:Of course Goku is a prodigy. He's a prodigy compared to his friends because he's a Saiyan, and that itself already grants him higher potential than the others. He's not a prodigy, he's the farthest thing from it, when you compare him to other members of his race, and that's why I said he's "shit" who achieved success through hard work.
Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P10.1
Vegeta: “It drives me crazy, but I’ll admit it…Despite doing all that special training, I didn’t surpass Kakarot…Th-that bastard’s a genius…But Cell is 1 or 2 steps above even him…”
And Vegeta eventually concludes at the end of his long speech that what keeps Goku ahead of him is his love of fighting and focusing on improving himself, rather than surpassing someone else or protecting someone. The point of that wasn't that Goku was more talented than Vegeta, but that he had the right mindset to becoming stronger, while Vegeta didn't.Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”
That's exactly the opposite though. As far as modern material goes, Toriyama seems actually very much interested in that again for the first time since the Saiyan Saga, maybe due to using "raw natural talent" as a plot point in favor of Freeza. RoF had a line from Whis about Vegeta being the genius in comparison to Goku but being held back due to his mindset.And I'd put more stock in that when it was brought up more recently, and more than once. The idea that Goku is a hard worker who beats the elites just seems to be a fan ideal. Toriyama doesn't seem to have any interest in that any more, so Goku is the most special member of the cast.
- DBZAOTA482
- Banned
- Posts: 6995
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
- Contact:
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
He is a prodigy. He overcame the limitations of his birth and became the strongest because of who he is.Doctor. wrote:Of course Goku is a prodigy. He's a prodigy compared to his friends because he's a Saiyan, and that itself already grants him higher potential than the others. He's not a prodigy, he's the farthest thing from it, when you compare him to other members of his race, and that's why I said he's "shit" who achieved success through hard work.
He worked hard but he also had a knack for fighting. He's been exposed since an early age.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
- MindForgedManacle
- Newbie
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:32 am
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
I think there has been a confusion. I think the OP was talking about hidden potential in the vein of Gohan's hidden power, not improving oneself through training. Of course, I never felt that the series gave us many details of what exactly this hidden/latent potential stuff was, so whatevs. 

- apex_pretador
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2081
- Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:17 pm
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
It is significant, but not that much.Saiga wrote:There's absolutely nothing to support they would be stronger than Goku's 416.
I don't think a year of Kaio's training is worth more than a lifetime of 10x gravity. Otherwise the fact that Kaio's planet has 10x gravity wouldn't be as significant as Kaio says.
Goku goes from like what? 15? to maching a match level roshi in 8 months, & krillin was marginally below him.
Had it been raditz, it'd have gone the same, saiyans grow faster if pushed to limits.
Then karin training, he surpassed (or equaled) karin.
If it was raditz, same thing'd have happened.
He trained with, & surpassed kami, if it was raditz, wouldn't he have surpassed kami? Even yajirobe & chiatxu did it by far.
Actually, the extra potential of goku in comparison to humans can be attributed to him being saiyan, that's it. Had he been a human, he'd not surpass others by that far.
Infact raditz will have the advantage of starting point. He'd start at higher level than goku.
Remember that humans had the potential to surpass raditz by training alone.
- Kendamu
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6998
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:31 am
- Location: The Martial Arts World
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Gohan and Goku have very similar inner-workings when it comes to what exactly makes them get stronger. For example, pretty much every Saiyan can get a rage boost or a Zenkai* or whatever. What's special about Gohan is that him being half-human somehow makes his rage boosts extra strong compared to a full-blooded Saiyan.
So, yeah, Goku totally has hidden potential power that he hasn't tapped into. That's why he's training with Beerus and Whis in the new stuff. He just doesn't get as much of a temporary boost from his emotions as Gohan does. Pretty much nobody does, really. The incredible rage boost in particular is what makes Gohan unique even among other half-Saiyan kids.
*Yay, fan terminology!
So, yeah, Goku totally has hidden potential power that he hasn't tapped into. That's why he's training with Beerus and Whis in the new stuff. He just doesn't get as much of a temporary boost from his emotions as Gohan does. Pretty much nobody does, really. The incredible rage boost in particular is what makes Gohan unique even among other half-Saiyan kids.
*Yay, fan terminology!
- MindForgedManacle
- Newbie
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 1:32 am
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Pretty sure Zenkais and rage boosts are't the same thing. Gohan was the only one to show rage boosts until Vegeta ass-pulled a rage boost against Beerus. Unless I'm mistaken, Vegeta says (when Gohan attacks 2nd-form Freeza) that Gohan's rage boosts are not a Saiyan ability, or at least, not one that he had ever seen before. Though that might have been the anime.Kendamu wrote:Gohan and Goku have very similar inner-workings when it comes to what exactly makes them get stronger. For example, pretty much every Saiyan can get a rage boost or a Zenkai* or whatever. What's special about Gohan is that him being half-human somehow makes his rage boosts extra strong compared to a full-blooded Saiyan.
So, yeah, Goku totally has hidden potential power that he hasn't tapped into. That's why he's training with Beerus and Whis in the new stuff. He just doesn't get as much of a temporary boost from his emotions as Gohan does. Pretty much nobody does, really. The incredible rage boost in particular is what makes Gohan unique even among other half-Saiyan kids.
*Yay, fan terminology!
Re: Does Goku have hidden potential?
Vegeta was just shocked at how much power Gohan had and speculated that he might be the one closest to achieving Super Saiyan.MindForgedManacle wrote:Pretty sure Zenkais and rage boosts are't the same thing. Gohan was the only one to show rage boosts until Vegeta ass-pulled a rage boost against Beerus. Unless I'm mistaken, Vegeta says (when Gohan attacks 2nd-form Freeza) that Gohan's rage boosts are not a Saiyan ability, or at least, not one that he had ever seen before. Though that might have been the anime.Kendamu wrote: *Yay, fan terminology!