Why tien and chaotzu keep training the same?

[SuperSaiyanJay]

Thank you to all who have put in there information and the knowledge they possess. From what I can Infer is that if it wasn't for zenkai boosts and super saiyan transformations, the humans would be able to catch up. They all have been in 10x gravity so the humans could have used the gravity chambers and even the hyperbolic time chamber. It comes down to them being scared and even feeling timid towards goku, vegeta, and piccolo, and towards the villians. The humans came back from king kais planet while vegeta, goku and piccolo continued training when they came from namek. Vegeta closed the gap on goku through harsh training. The point is that the humans do not desire to train by any means like vegeta and goku do. Even piccolo started to doubt hisself. Goku is the only person in the universe that just wants to better hisself everytime. People dont realize that even if tien got 100x more sttonger than goku. Goku would catch up and get stronger because goku just doesnt stop training and improving.
The conclusion to this is to keep going, to not stop even when your on top. The humans have stopped. Goku and vegeta kept going. Thank you for the enlightening discussions.

[Lord Beerus]

And who says Nappa and Raditz are genetically gifted enough to gain as much out of Zenkais and transformations as Goku and Vegeta? What, just because Gohan and the others became SSJs so easily, I'm suddenly supposed to believe that the entire Saiyan population has some dormant potential just waiting to emerge after a few grueling training sessions? Both Nappa and Raditz have had an ample amount of time to walk among their legendary kin, but they clearly failed.

Who says they can't? What is this unwritten rule were Goku and Vegeta are the only Saiyans ever who have an great amount of dormant power that can be tapped into given the right circumstances? Who's to say that if Nappa and Raditz didn't get the same intense training conditions and exposure to Zenkai's like Goku and Vegeta did, their strength wouldn't have skyrocketed like Goku and Vegeta's did? Remember, the Original Super Saiyan and the Original Super Saiyan God were a thing way before Goku and Vegeta even existed. So obviously great amount dormant power can come from really any Saiyan.

[supercat]

And who says Nappa and Raditz are genetically gifted enough to gain as much out of Zenkais and transformations as Goku and Vegeta? What, just because Gohan and the others became SSJs so easily, I'm suddenly supposed to believe that the entire Saiyan population has some dormant potential just waiting to emerge after a few grueling training sessions? Both Nappa and Raditz have had an ample amount of time to walk among their legendary kin, but they clearly failed.

Who says they can't? What is this unwritten rule were Goku and Vegeta are the only Saiyans ever who have an great amount of dormant power that can be tapped into given the right circumstances? Who's to say that if Nappa and Raditz didn't get the same intense training conditions and exposure to Zenkai's like Goku and Vegeta did, their strength wouldn't have skyrocketed like Goku and Vegeta's did? Remember, the Original Super Saiyan and the Original Super Saiyan God were a thing way before Goku and Vegeta even existed. So obviously great amount dormant power can come from really any Saiyan.

I seriously don't understand why people choose to only quote part of another user's post when the rest of it helps support a point as well. The original Super Saiyan and SSG were deemed as exceptional beings of ancient legend for a reason; throwing them into this discussion really doesn't help support your argument.

Since this discussion is apparently about to go in circles, I'll clarify again; decades of combat experience merely had Raditz treading around 1200 - 1500 and Nappa around 4000 - 5000. Real impressive right?

Also, I'll let you know preemptively that I don't subscribe to the whole "combat isn't training" nonsense or "no one was able to injure them to the point of a Zenkai."

[Lord Beerus]

Since this discussion is apparently about to go in circles, I'll clarify again; decades of combat experience merely had Raditz treading around 1200 - 1500 and Nappa around 4000 - 5000. Real impressive right?

And yet the gains in strength from combat experience the Goku got are not that impressive either. He spent at least 15 years of life training and battling some some of the greatest martial artists the world has ever know and he literally trained with God himself. Yet by the time that Raditz appears, he can't shit to him. It was only when he started training with King Kai that his BP started to spike.

Also, I'll let you know preemptively that I don't subscribe to the whole "combat isn't training" nonsense or "no one was able to injure them to the point of a Zenkai."

So any time a character has every throw a few punches and kicks at any opponent at any time, it counts as training? Um... what? Plus, considering that since the original Super Saiyan God and the Original Super Saiyan, King Vegeta was the strongest known Saiyan for decades, the whole "no one was able to injure them to the point of a Zenkai." actually has a lot of validity behind.

Well, it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject and just move on.

[supercat]

Since this discussion is apparently about to go in circles, I'll clarify again; decades of combat experience merely had Raditz treading around 1200 - 1500 and Nappa around 4000 - 5000. Real impressive right?

And yet the gains in strength from combat experience the Goku got are not that impressive either. He spent at least 15 years of life training and battling some some of the greatest martial artists the world has ever know and he literally trained with God himself. Yet by the time that Raditz appears, he can't shit to him. It was only when he started training with King Kai that his BP started to spike.

Also, I'll let you know preemptively that I don't subscribe to the whole "combat isn't training" nonsense or "no one was able to injure them to the point of a Zenkai."

So any time a character has every throw a few punches and kicks at any opponent at any time, it counts as training? Um... what? Plus, considering that since the original Super Saiyan God and the Original Super Saiyan, King Vegeta was the strongest known Saiyan for decades, the whole "no one was able to injure them to the point of a Zenkai." actually has a lot of validity behind.

Well, it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject and just move one.

I think you're completely missing the point; Goku fought against human warriros (barring Piccolo) who presumably had a difficult time breaking 200, so it's quite expected of him to progress slower than fighters who likely fought against foes several notches higher than that. There really isn't much information pertaining to the battles Raditz and Nappa fought. If the anime is anything to go by, we know they've had their own share of challenges during their conquest; this is shown briefly in a filler scene when Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz are ridiculed by Frieza for taking too long to conquer a planet. Additionally, Bardock and his crew showed signs of fatigue after conquering Planet Kanassa, so it's likely their endeavors weren't simple walks in the park. Kami and Roshi may have been the greatest fighters on Earth, but that really isn't saying much once hundreds of other planets are factored into the equation.

Are you dismissing nearly a lifetime's worth of combat experience as a few punches and kicks because you're that eager to prove a point?

Also, does Goku's enormous Zenkai after his scuffle with the Ginyu's not mean anything to you?

You also keep going on about the original SSG and SSJ, when we have little to no information about their power. How do you know they didn't get to where they were after a few remarkable battles? More to the point, do you even know how powerful they were? Have you also forgotten that it didn't take long for Kid Vegeta to not only surpass his father, but Nappa and Raditz as well?

[Lord Beerus]

I think you're completely missing the point; Goku fought against human warriros (barring Piccolo) who presumably had a difficult time breaking 200, so it's quite expected of him to progress slower than fighters who likely fought against foes several notches higher than that. There really isn't much information pertaining to the battles Raditz and Nappa fought. If the anime is anything to go by, we know they've had their own share of challenges during their conquest; this is shown briefly in a filler scene when Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz are ridiculed by Freeza for taking too long to conquer a planet. Additionally, Bardock and his crew showed signs of fatigue after conquering Planet Kanassa, so it's likely their endeavors weren't simple walks in the park. Kami and Roshi may have been the greatest fighters on Earth, but that really isn't saying much once hundreds of other planets are factored into the equation.

That's the point I'm trying to make. You lambast Raditz and Nappa for spending many years in combat experience and not growing that much stronger, yet who's to say that most of planets that they conquered had beings that were just as strong as what Goku for most of his childhood and teenage years, if not even weaker? Plus, Did you ever consider that Kid Vegeta was as strong as he was as a child was because, as a member of Saiyan royalty, he would gain access to more advanced training and combat conditions so that he could grow stronger quicker? I mean, being considered an elite can grant special perks.

Are you dismissing nearly a lifetime's worth of combat experience as a few punches and kicks because you're that eager to prove a point?

You claim that you don't agree with the idea that combat isn't training and referred to it as "nonsense" and I just don't agree with that because when you are in combat, you're mind isn't focused on looking how to grow stronger, you're just looking to win, and in some cases, looking to survive. When you're fighting and when you're training are two completely different scenarios and you two different mindsets in those scenarios. But hey, everyone has an opinion.

Also, does Goku's enormous Zenkai after his scuffle with the Ginyu's not mean anything to you?

What does that have to do with anything?

You also keep going on about the original SSG and SSJ, when we have little to no information about their power. How do you know they didn't get to where they were after a few remarkable battles? More to the point, do you even know how powerful they were?

No, nothing is known that much about the power of Original Super Saiyan God and the Original Super Saiyan, that I will admit. But considering that Freeza was willing to exterminate the Saiyan race to prevent another Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan from happening, the strength behind that Original Super Saiyan God and the Original Super Saiyan must have been something quite formidable for Freeza to go that length.

Have you also forgotten that it didn't take long for Kid Vegeta to not only surpass his father, but Nappa and Raditz as well?

Did you ever consider that Kid Vegeta was as strong as he was as a child was because, as a member of Saiyan royalty, he would gain access to more advanced training and combat conditions so that he could grow stronger quicker? I mean, being considered an elite can grant special perks.

[apex_pretador]

Tenshinhan flat out said in the Cell saga that he didn't want to use the time chamber because, "he didn't think it would make a difference," in that he knew he was outclassed and that he would never catch up to Cell or the Saiyans and Piccolo.

Then of course Tenshinhan and Yamcha also say that they weren't going to fight at the Cell Games when they originally appeared. The fact that they survived the Cell Jr. onslaught is a miracle in itself.

yep. He might have become 100x stronger & be weaker than androids, let alone cell.

[TobyS]

They were martial artists before they ever met Goku.

While they may want to surpass Goku, their desire to do so exists independently from their desire to improve themselves and hone their own martial arts skills.



My theory about gravity/rosat is that they aren't things you need to get way stronger, they are things that allow you to get way stronger quickly. As an emergency.

Goku trained in high gravity because he only had a few days to fight strong opponents.

People trained in the RoSaT to fight Cell in 10 days.

Tenshinhan has no deadline.

The fact they DON'T borrow a gravity chamber from Bulma and use it, at least till they master it's highest setting, is proof that they don't NEED to.


People joke about mountain training being rubbish, but I personally think they are over-rating those other training methods.

[Silver Sinspawn]

This is a pretty good reason as to why humans don't use gravity to train. That being said, it is 300xG.