Which series had a more natural transition? Super or GT

[ther2view]

Actually the 10 year gap makes way more sense considering we first see Pan out on a date.

True, though I think 9 isn't all that young for what seems to be a pretty casual after school date. Especially for Japan. Though again with the icky factor, the guy Pan is on a date with seems to be in his late teens... what the heck, GT?! At least when original Dragon Ball had questionable pedophilia the boy in question was telling people he was 18 or so...

Yeah, now that I think about it, there was some pedophilia in Z as well with that creepy wrestler guy... And all of these things I THINK are Anime only, which would mean Toei is responsible, not Toriyama. Wow.

[TheMikado]

Actually the 10 year gap makes way more sense considering we first see Pan out on a date.

True, though I think 9 isn't all that young for what seems to be a pretty casual after school date. Especially for Japan. Though again with the icky factor, the guy Pan is on a date with seems to be in his late teens... what the heck, GT?! At least when original Dragon Ball had questionable pedophilia the boy in question was telling people he was 18 or so...

Yeah, now that I think about it, there was some pedophilia in Z as well with that creepy wrestler guy... And all of these things I THINK are Anime only, which would mean Toei is responsible, not Toriyama. Wow.

I don't think you can really blame that on the anime. It's kind of part of the culture and I can see why funimation changed the gap in the first episode in an attempt to get rid of that which western audiences wouldn't have understood. I can understand this change for the sake of making it culturally acceptable and not grossing western audiences out.

[Cetra]

Yeah, she looks like 16 or something in GT. To be fair with the DBGT guys, Bra looked older than Pan in EoZ too, for some reason. I didn't really know she was supposed to be younger than Pan until people started talking about her in this forum lol.

Which I think is the sole reason Funimation changed the time gap from 5 years to 10 years, along with Vegeta's hilariously wrong line of "Teenagers." Yeah, Vegeta... they weren't teenagers. Of course, even the 10 year gap is icky considering that would only make her 13... so the theory that the "Lost episodes" were actually lost by Funimation may actually be more true...

I hope by "wrong" you mean "mistranslated" because he did not say that at all.

Also talk about double standards. Gohan is known as "Teen Gohan" when he is 9-10, while Boo Saga Gohan by definition would be the true Teen Gohan. But of course that is okay because it is DBZ, I guess.

[ther2view]

I hope by "wrong" you mean "mistranslated" because he did not say that at all.

Also talk about double standards. Gohan is known as "Teen Gohan" when he is 9-10, while Boo Saga Gohan by definition would be the true Teen Gohan. But of course that is okay because it is DBZ, I guess.

Oh yes, I definitely meant it as a mistranslated kind of wrong. When I first watched it completely dubbed I could tell that Funimation got that wrong.

And believe me, I find the whole "Teen" Gohan thing incredibly laughable. I show my younger brother pictures of "Teen" Gohan sometimes just to confuse him when I tell him it's Teen Gohan and he's 10.

And as for letting Z get away with things because it's Z... as sacrilegious as it sounds for a Dragon Ball fan to say... Original Dragon Ball Z (Dubbed, at least.) is my least favorite of the series. It's a whole discussion there as to why, but my point is I'd never give something a pass just because it's in Z.

[BoosterZabi]

Super did in terms of the colorful Toriyama atmosphere and story writing.

GT did a bunch of random things that it was clear from the obvious shift from the last episode of DBZ to GT.

[Cipher]

Shoot. I just posted this in a silly GT/canonocity thread, but maybe it should've gone here. Cross-pollinating for the sake of discussion:

One thing I find increasingly interesting as Super goes on is just how different it is from GT philosophically, in the way they choose to continue the universe.

Super seems to be determined to continue expanding just as the original story did--to leave no corner of its world untouched. For every hierarchy in setting and governance, there's another. Goku's recently shaken hands with the highest of high gods (though that's happened before). When the Boo arc introduced the highest divinity and cemented the cast as the strongest fighters within their universe, the new material invented more.

GT on the other hand, despite its throwing a small cast of characters into space for the initial arc, scales back. After the battle with Boo, we stay focused on the way the characters' lives play out on Earth. Part of this stems no doubt from it picking up after the end of Z/the manga, which established frumpier characters with lives beyond training, a Goku who has apparently been bored for ten years (which, by the way, how's Super going to get that back on track?). While we do get threats from beyond, the world is no longer expanding around the characters' strength and interactions. The main threat of the space arc has ties to Saiyan history; the last half the series is entirely focused on what's happening on Earth. When the series begins, everyone's living more or less normal lives: Pan is trying to be an average teen; Trunks runs a company; Vegeta's a dad. Goku trains Oob. Everyone's settled. And while the series throws them a handful of new threats and some new levels of strength (of a decidedly less mystical and universe-expanding vein than Super's), it's still focused on these super strong people who've done it all and happen to live on Earth. In Super, they're caught up in games of higher and higher gods.

In GT, once you get to the top, you can only go down. In Super, you keep going up.

That's the fundamental difference between them as continuations. And that's to say nothing of the way these aspects are reflected in aesthetic choices--taking its cue from the end of the manga, GT feels increasingly realistic and dated (in its mid-'90s setting; check out character designs and the settings in the latter half of the series), while Super, with two decades of Dragon Ball cementing its timelessness behind it, feels increasingly fantastic. It's one of the things that makes GT feel particularly un-Toriyama, but it's one of the reasons I find it interesting as an epilogue as well. Everything has peaked, and it's time to tie bows on things and let the real world catch up.

They both make sense in a way, and I could argue further for why each seems completely reasonable coming off the Boo arc. But they couldn't be more different in their cores.

-------------------------------------

Re: The GT timeskip conversation going on here: I think it's best approached from a nebulous "some time has passed" perspective. Neither five nor ten years is wholly satisfactory and the series is mum about an exact year count anyway.

-------------------------------------

Addendum -- I'll also say that Super (really any new material from Resurrection "F" onward) also feels a bit philosophically different from what Battle of Gods offered on its own. While it works seamlessly to kick start a new era of the series and act as a point of expansion, as a stand-alone film it also carried an air of finality. At least that's how I initially viewed it. Rather than saying "There's this whole new world we're about to explore!" it seemed to invoke stronger opponents and multiple universes to do the opposite. It was an anecdotal epilogue to the main series saying "Okay, you might have thought you were the absolute strongest around, but there's always someone better than you out there. Potentially a lot of them." Even though Goku does get stronger via the god ritual, it doesn't even really imply he'll keep growing or ever surpass Beerus--as far as we know he still settles down and trains Oob. He may have hit his peak, but he loves knowing that it's not the peak.

Honestly, that was kind of nice. It really complemented the end of the manga and seemed to be about putting the characters in their place (and having them be content with it, through typical Dragon Ball pyrotechnics) whereas the new material does the opposite. Both are fine! I'll be really curious to see where this new stuff ends.

[Kuririn Fan]

I take that back, Super just feels right as a manga sequel with all this lore and expansion, whereas GT does not. Screw timeline reasoning, Super is a nice natural transition and better than GT.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

super doesn't feel natural. looks like a fan animation, is less consistent then GT with Z, and is missing the feeling Z had. It's not impossible to like, but I get why people want it to have never happened and rag all over it.

[ther2view]

super doesn't feel natural. looks like a fan animation, is less consistent then GT with Z, and is missing the feeling Z had. It's not impossible to like, but I get why people want it to have never happened and rag all over it.

I understand why people don't like it, and to each their own. To me, though, I think it's too early to truly judge the series in comparison to the original 3, especially since most people saw the first three years or even decades ago, so they're looking back through a slightly foggy lens and comparing it to what's currently airing. Not that I'm saying that's necessarily a bad thing, mind you, just that to me, it's too early to try and compare them.

While I'm thinking about my thoughts on Super and such, I'm in a position that is probably pretty unique right now, considering that I'm pretty much started Super right after my first time watching the original 3 series. To me so far, Super has been flawed, but not quite so much as GT, and the flaws are more the decision to retell Battle of Gods and Resurrection F and the General inconsistencies in the animation than anything regarding characters, pacing or story. GT, on the other hand, while having some great story ideas and truly feeling like an epilogue along with some pretty consistent animation (At least that I noticed), had some odd pacing issues, stagnant and even at times unlikable characters, some honestly hideous character models. I like both series, just for different reasons. Much how I like Dragon Ball and Kai for different reasons. And Z...has mostly been replaced in my mind with Kai, apart from the openings, endings, and a couple of filler episodes that were hilarious. But now I'm devolving into talking about whether I like GT or Super more, so I'll stop talking now.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

super doesn't feel natural. looks like a fan animation, is less consistent then GT with Z, and is missing the feeling Z had. It's not impossible to like, but I get why people want it to have never happened and rag all over it.

I understand why people don't like it, and to each their own. To me, though, I think it's too early to truly judge the series in comparison to the original 3, especially since most people saw the first three years or even decades ago, so they're looking back through a slightly foggy lens and comparing it to what's currently airing. Not that I'm saying that's necessarily a bad thing, mind you, just that to me, it's too early to try and compare them.

While I'm thinking about my thoughts on Super and such, I'm in a position that is probably pretty unique right now, considering that I'm pretty much started Super right after my first time watching the original 3 series. To me so far, Super has been flawed, but not quite so much as GT, and the flaws are more the decision to retell Battle of Gods and Resurrection F and the General inconsistencies in the animation than anything regarding characters, pacing or story. GT, on the other hand, while having some great story ideas and truly feeling like an epilogue along with some pretty consistent animation (At least that I noticed), had some odd pacing issues, stagnant and even at times unlikable characters, some honestly hideous character models. I like both series, just for different reasons. Much how I like Dragon Ball and Kai for different reasons. And Z...has mostly been replaced in my mind with Kai, apart from the openings, endings, and a couple of filler episodes that were hilarious. But now I'm devolving into talking about whether I like GT or Super more, so I'll stop talking now.

True some people are blinded by nostalgia, but not all. I grew up with ocean first but prefer the old funi dub overall other languages!

It's fine to like em equally or to like one above the other. What I think is it's fair to judge super when it's 40+ episodes in to be honest man.

Super avoided mistakes from GT (more vegeta) but didn't learn from BIG mistakes of GT....like in GT, it was all about goku and the villains and sometimes saiyans..... in super it's all about Goku, the villains and sometimes the saiyans...so no improvement there.
arc 1- let's all be canon fodder and make goku a god. Vegeta willingly does this because fuck continuity.
arc 2-goku is the star, vegeta fans get the middle finger.
arc 3- goku starts and finishes off the tournament, makes everyone else look like shit with his kaioken hax.

while gt's 4 arcs-

arc 1- good idea, very very VERY flawed execution. but at least it was hand drawn, which is more then what I can say about the only dragonball anime to NOT USE ANIAMTION CELS!
arc 2-finnally going in the right direction, but misses a lot of opportunities. still one of the best things in dragonball though. like gohan, great but wasted potential.
arc 3-short....super 17 is a good idea, but the re used villains escaping from hell idea is ONCE AGAIN thrown away and wasted. still fun to watch. nice to see GT make goku badass again when Z made him gone for 90% of each saga....
arc 4- a perfect ending but the shadow dragonball sucked all but the last 3. such a waste. gt is full of wasted potential, but when it does things right, it excels!

my point is a see the flaws of both, and the pros. but GT wins to me. they put more effort and love into it, and it actually has a soundtrack. I cant call the BGMs used in super music it's so soul less. They should have used the guy from xenoverse. THAT felt like dragonball or the guy who did ball/Z...or at the very least gt's score.

it's sad that 40+ episodes in I've yet to feel that warm fuzzy hyped up excited feel I got from ball z and gt. nothing inspires me here, nothing makes me wanna rewatch it 100+ times, it's all like a bad fan fiction, I swear they use adobe to color this fucker. hopefully super gets better. ut to me ever since beerus came in dragonball has lost it's touch and ruined it's greatness. I still love it but I no longer feel like this franchise is owned by people who love it and its fans, I feel more like a wallet to them. that's why I turned my love and money to star wars. that's just me.

[ther2view]

[quote="LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta" True some people are blinded by nostalgia, but not all. I grew up with ocean first but prefer the old funi dub overall other languages!

It's fine to like em equally or to like one above the other. What I think is it's fair to judge super when it's 40+ episodes in to be honest man.

Super avoided mistakes from GT (more vegeta) but didn't learn from BIG mistakes of GT....like in GT, it was all about goku and the villains and sometimes saiyans..... in super it's all about Goku, the villains and sometimes the saiyans...so no improvement there.
arc 1- let's all be canon fodder and make goku a god. Vegeta willingly does this because fuck continuity.
arc 2-goku is the star, vegeta fans get the middle finger.
arc 3- goku starts and finishes off the tournament, makes everyone else look like shit with his kaioken hax.

while gt's 4 arcs-

arc 1- good idea, very very VERY flawed execution. but at least it was hand drawn, which is more then what I can say about the only dragonball anime to NOT USE ANIAMTION CELS!
arc 2-finnally going in the right direction, but misses a lot of opportunities. still one of the best things in dragonball though. like gohan, great but wasted potential.
arc 3-short....super 17 is a good idea, but the re used villains escaping from hell idea is ONCE AGAIN thrown away and wasted. still fun to watch. nice to see GT make goku badass again when Z made him gone for 90% of each saga....
arc 4- a perfect ending but the shadow dragonball sucked all but the last 3. such a waste. gt is full of wasted potential, but when it does things right, it excels!

my point is a see the flaws of both, and the pros. but GT wins to me. they put more effort and love into it, and it actually has a soundtrack. I cant call the BGMs used in super music it's so soul less. They should have used the guy from xenoverse. THAT felt like dragonball or the guy who did ball/Z...or at the very least gt's score.

it's sad that 40+ episodes in I've yet to feel that warm fuzzy hyped up excited feel I got from ball z and gt. nothing inspires me here, nothing makes me wanna rewatch it 100+ times, it's all like a bad fan fiction, I swear they use adobe to color this fucker. hopefully super gets better. ut to me ever since beerus came in dragonball has lost it's touch and ruined it's greatness. I still love it but I no longer feel like this franchise is owned by people who love it and its fans, I feel more like a wallet to them. that's why I turned my love and money to star wars. that's just me.[/quote]
I agree with you pretty much completely, but I like Super a bit more than GT, I think. Again, to be fair, I've only watched GT dubbed and Super subbed so far, so when I go back and watch everything again, I may feel differently.

Super has filled me with a lot of hype and excitement, but it's probably more because it's the first time I'm watching a Dragon Ball show completely new. Because I watched everything else more recently and all on DVD and Bluray, I was watching whole chunks of Sagas at a time, and I could look up wiki's to get answers about characters and stories. With Super it's the first time I have to watch week by week, episode by episode, and NOT know or able to look up how everything goes. I'll freely admit that it's possible that while a lot of people hate Super because of Nostalgia that I like Super for the exact opposite reason... what would that be called? Newness? Hype? Excitement? Not sure, but I think my point came across.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

[quote="LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta" True some people are blinded by nostalgia, but not all. I grew up with ocean first but prefer the old funi dub overall other languages!

It's fine to like em equally or to like one above the other. What I think is it's fair to judge super when it's 40+ episodes in to be honest man.

Super avoided mistakes from GT (more vegeta) but didn't learn from BIG mistakes of GT....like in GT, it was all about goku and the villains and sometimes saiyans..... in super it's all about Goku, the villains and sometimes the saiyans...so no improvement there.
arc 1- let's all be canon fodder and make goku a god. Vegeta willingly does this because fuck continuity.
arc 2-goku is the star, vegeta fans get the middle finger.
arc 3- goku starts and finishes off the tournament, makes everyone else look like shit with his kaioken hax.

while gt's 4 arcs-

arc 1- good idea, very very VERY flawed execution. but at least it was hand drawn, which is more then what I can say about the only dragonball anime to NOT USE ANIAMTION CELS!
arc 2-finnally going in the right direction, but misses a lot of opportunities. still one of the best things in dragonball though. like gohan, great but wasted potential.
arc 3-short....super 17 is a good idea, but the re used villains escaping from hell idea is ONCE AGAIN thrown away and wasted. still fun to watch. nice to see GT make goku badass again when Z made him gone for 90% of each saga....
arc 4- a perfect ending but the shadow dragonball sucked all but the last 3. such a waste. gt is full of wasted potential, but when it does things right, it excels!

my point is a see the flaws of both, and the pros. but GT wins to me. they put more effort and love into it, and it actually has a soundtrack. I cant call the BGMs used in super music it's so soul less. They should have used the guy from xenoverse. THAT felt like dragonball or the guy who did ball/Z...or at the very least gt's score.

it's sad that 40+ episodes in I've yet to feel that warm fuzzy hyped up excited feel I got from ball z and gt. nothing inspires me here, nothing makes me wanna rewatch it 100+ times, it's all like a bad fan fiction, I swear they use adobe to color this fucker. hopefully super gets better. ut to me ever since beerus came in dragonball has lost it's touch and ruined it's greatness. I still love it but I no longer feel like this franchise is owned by people who love it and its fans, I feel more like a wallet to them. that's why I turned my love and money to star wars. that's just me.

I agree with you pretty much completely, but I like Super a bit more than GT, I think. Again, to be fair, I've only watched GT dubbed and Super subbed so far, so when I go back and watch everything again, I may feel differently.

Super has filled me with a lot of hype and excitement, but it's probably more because it's the first time I'm watching a Dragon Ball show completely new. Because I watched everything else more recently and all on DVD and Bluray, I was watching whole chunks of Sagas at a time, and I could look up wiki's to get answers about characters and stories. With Super it's the first time I have to watch week by week, episode by episode, and NOT know or able to look up how everything goes. I'll freely admit that it's possible that while a lot of people hate Super because of Nostalgia that I like Super for the exact opposite reason... what would that be called? Newness? Hype? Excitement? Not sure, but I think my point came across.[/quote]


There's certainly a different feeling of watching something week by week, if you binge something the feel of each episode is kind of lost when you have a large fill of a show. I don't think most people have it as nostalgia though, especially when they can make points, I think the only nostalgia is when people wont accept faults with a show because they feel it's some sort of betrayal.its fine not to like one aspect of a show, like I don't like kai, the dubbing was aweful and they de mastered it rather then remastered it. if I want a filelr free experience i'll read the manga or press the skip button on the remote. GT's du bwas great, they had some dub lines like the destroying a city line and such but it was still good. to me super is just official work by the owners, but when they went senile. I mean if they animated it with cels like they did with ball/z/gt I would like it more but super and kai fail for me, it has nothing to do with nostalgia. I also don't like the constant plot holes of super like goku losing to a laser bolt, yeah....like that should happen...... but I'm not gonna be some hater telling people not to like it, I watch it myself, but I wont pretend the faults aren't there. EVERY dragonbal lanime has flaws, not just super, but to me and many others the cons outway the pros in super, or at the very least the cons are way too abundant. like they cant even get people personalities right. fat buu, vegeta, piccolo, 18 and so many others have either become 1 notes like bulma has, focusing on 1 characteristic fro mthe past, or written so bad you don't believe its them (vegeta's goof scenes makes me want the prideful version of vegeta from z to blast up toei with an energy valley.)

[TheMikado]

So here's my take on this, and I was going to post this in its own thread but Super feels too ... Super..

As someone above mentioned. DBZ just continuously upped the ante to absurd levels pretty much to the point where Toriyama was considered by fans to be making internal jokes in the Buu arc. If you wanted to continually top the absurdity to nonsensical levels then yes I can see how you would consider it a natural transition.

I look at Super/GT as the end cap of a DB>DBZ>Super/GT series about Goku. For me personally the transition to Super doesnt seem to have matured and in fact, seems to regress the characters and their development.
Furthermore Super takes everything to over 9000 unnecessarily. What I mean it wasn't enough to introduce the Gods of Destruction, but to introduce 12 universes and a King that can wipe them out in a "blink of an eye" You have him riding this massive dragon that can eat galaxies and looks like a golden blue eyes white dragon and name him Super Shenron... Then you have SSB and KKx10 when KK 1,2 and tops 5 should do it.

Look DBZ did get out of hands sometimes, but the Planet Namek Dragon wasn't ridiculous, the androids were not other worldly powerful, and Buu wasn't all that strong above the others, it was his capabilities that made him dangerous. Dragonball Super turning everything up to 11 on the dial does not in itself make it a better show and in my opinion shows its weakness of narrative and creativity when you just turn up the dials as high as they can go.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

So here's my take on this, and I was going to post this in its own thread but Super feels too ... Super..

As someone above mentioned. DBZ just continuously upped the ante to absurd levels pretty much to the point where Toriyama was considered by fans to be making internal jokes in the Buu arc. If you wanted to continually top the absurdity to nonsensical levels then yes I can see how you would consider it a natural transition.

I look at Super/GT as the end cap of a DB>DBZ>Super/GT series about Goku. For me personally the transition to Super doesnt seem to have matured and in fact, seems to regress the characters and their development.
Furthermore Super takes everything to over 9000 unnecessarily. What I mean it wasn't enough to introduce the Gods of Destruction, but to introduce 12 universes and a King that can wipe them out in a "blink of an eye" You have him riding this massive dragon that can eat galaxies and looks like a golden blue eyes white dragon and name him Super Shenron... Then you have SSB and KKx10 when KK 1,2 and tops 5 should do it.

Look DBZ did get out of hands sometimes, but the Planet Namek Dragon wasn't ridiculous, the androids were not other worldly powerful, and Buu wasn't all that strong above the others, it was his capabilities that made him dangerous. Dragonball Super turning everything up to 11 on the dial does not in itself make it a better show and in my opinion shows its weakness of narrative and creativity when you just turn up the dials as high as they can go.

Yeah, they don't seam to understand it takes more then power to make something interesting, beerus isn't better then cell. they think making him stronger then cell makes him better, but it doesn't. Z knew this though, they didn't have dodoria outlive king piccolo's screen lifespan, because they knew power isn't quality. this new gold shenron is the lamest looking of them all, the others looked cool, this one looks so LAZY. can we please have ONE cool design from a new character? we got a fat alien chiatzu as the king of everything (who isn't even the strongest in the franchise) as well as his two dildo look alike henchmen. total rubbish. still hoping the newer episodes do better tbh.

[DBZAOTA482]

Probably GT not just because of the timeline shit but because it actually tried to tell a story unlike Super which is just an insultingly simple nostalgia cash-grab.

[Kuririn Fan]

Yeah, they don't seam to understand it takes more then power to make something interesting, beerus isn't better then cell. they think making him stronger then cell makes him better, but it doesn't. Z knew this though, they didn't have dodoria outlive king piccolo's screen lifespan, because they knew power isn't quality. this new gold shenron is the lamest looking of them all, the others looked cool, this one looks so LAZY. can we please have ONE cool design from a new character? we got a fat alien chiatzu as the king of everything (who isn't even the strongest in the franchise) as well as his two dildo look alike henchmen. total rubbish. still hoping the newer episodes do better tbh.

That doesnt make any sense, Beerus is a great character and not just because hes strong, did you even watch any of the new stuff, hes definitely much better than boring Cell. Designs are good and King of Everything is the strongest guy in Dragon Ball franchise...

[sintzu]

Probably GT not just because of the timeline shit but because it actually tried to tell a story unlike Super which is just an insultingly simple nostalgia cash-grab.

Both try to tell a good story and both have the same problem, their story is underdeveloped.

Super is still ongoing unlike GT so that will hopefully change.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Probably GT not just because of the timeline shit but because it actually tried to tell a story unlike Super which is just an insultingly simple nostalgia cash-grab.

Both try to tell a good story and both have the same problem, their story is underdeveloped.

Super is still ongoing unlike GT so that will hopefully change.

I doint think Super is trying to tell a story, the first 2 arcs were rehashes then we got ANOTHER tournament. no story. goku flying to namek to deal with the man who killed his people is a story. some cat comes to earth for an hour and wants pudding-not a story.

[sintzu]

I don't think Super is trying to tell a story.

Goku flying to namek to deal with the man who killed his people is a story. some cat comes to earth for an hour and wants pudding-not a story.

It is but there are 3 major problems that are holding it back :

1- The arcs are underdeveloped.

2- The arcs aren't very connected.

3- The arcs don't end with any major status quo change.

The Namek arc and the rest of the manga was written when Toriyama had editors, editors who wouldn't let him cut corners and rush things out like he's doing now.

[Captain Strawberry]

The ultimate dragon ball arc should have been shorter like the Dragon ball arc in DB. Like 10 - 15 eps. Goku being a kid would have been fine if it wasn't for very long like 10 eps.

Probably GT not just because of the timeline shit but because it actually tried to tell a story unlike Super which is just an insultingly simple nostalgia cash-grab.

Both try to tell a good story and both have the same problem, their story is underdeveloped.

Super is still ongoing unlike GT so that will hopefully change.

I doint think Super is trying to tell a story, the first 2 arcs were rehashes then we got ANOTHER tournament. no story. goku flying to namek to deal with the man who killed his people is a story. some cat comes to earth for an hour and wants pudding-not a story.

I think it's more about story telling then story, I personally really like the BOG 'story'.