Stupidity in the DragonBall Fanbase: Who is to Blame?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:12 pm

This kinda touches upon issues first presented in the prior thread talking about who does the most damage to DragonBall, but it goes in a different direction so hopefully it won't seem redundant.

We all know that any fanbase contains people who aren't the most intelligent, some moreso than others. DragonBall's fanbase seems to have a reputation for being the home to many people with a lack of intelligence, something that can be proven by visiting any number of forums (GameFAQs, for instance). Even this forum, with its tight structure and enforcement of rules, falls victim to the occasional idiot who is usually dealt with in short order.

My question is "why?"

What is it about DragonBall? Is it the series itself? FUNimation's treatment of the series? The alignment of celestial bodies? What is it that seems to make DragonBall more of a haven for stupidity than other animes of comparable popularity?

-Corey

Note: This thread is more for discussion than one or two word replies. I'm not looking for a thread that had 20 replies simply stating "FUNimation." If you think that's the case, explain why. Personally, I think this is an interesting subject that many people from the community, old and new, can give a diverse selection of opinions about.

SatoSky · Post by **SatoSky** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:25 pm

I think it's because Dragon Ball is known all over the world. It's been dubbed in what, 33 countries (or is it languages)? With that much exposure to it, some ignorant people are bound to show up.

I myself do my best to ignore them, but sometimes someone really annoying shows up. Gokuden553 comes to mind.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:56 pm

Dragonball itself is to blame. Yes, it was a fairly deep and involving story about personal growth and whatnot. But, first and foremost, it's about muscular people beating each other's brains out. The lack of psuedo-intellectual content (lol, NGE) means casual fans are probably fans because they like the fighting.

TriforceCaptre · Post by **TriforceCaptre** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:06 pm

I'm not sure what causes it in Dragonball specifically. But in general I'd say people are to blame. Lots of people have a bad habit of stateing wrong information as fact. I don't mean ignorantly, like someone saying "something is like this, I think" or "if I'm not mistaken something is like this". That's excusable because they are at least aware that what they are saying may or may not be right and will accept being corrected. But when people start saying things and get mad and defensive at people who correct them, those types of people are to blame in my opinion. Apparently those kinds of people love Dragonball above everything.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:50 pm

There's a reason Daizex is the only fandom forum I frequent. Although typically you'll find a healthy population of coherent people in forums related to "modern classics" (Starwars, DC or Marvel), you get things like Power Rangers from which only one or two intelligent people seem to appear in any given net-versation... And then there's gamers. You have the people taht htink thier the shiz b/c I'm the bet at this game & u cant win w/o turtling scrub... and then you have people who know all kinds of stuff about how games actually work, or have a deep understanding of the storylines or characters behind the game in question... Yeah I guess I'm starting to see something here that makes sense...

Stupid fans see the series and go "ZOMG thats kewl!!11!" and just rush through it and indulge in it, and although they may gain a good understanding of some things, are just too RAAAA! to have any sense and wind up saying stupid stuff (Dark Spencer's brother...). Then you have people who are excited and deeply interested, but not in that "ZOMG KICKASS!" rush sort of way, so they actually take in things and try to understand it.

Not all the RUSH! fans though turn into irritating idiots, because they can learn from their ... mishaps. But there are plenty who just keep riding high on that insane "RAAA!", too awed to not get into deep places, but too "RAA!" to get deep enough to not be stupid... and after much inbreeding and government experimentation, we get the Youtube Comment Rager.

Why these people are so common in DB fandom... egh, probably both the fact that it's an action show with some easy to grasp surface level stuff that would distract people from ... intelligence, and maybe a little of the history of its treatment in various regions (Not all RAA!-jin are from America, though a lot of them are...). And this brings us back to some recent podcast episodes.

.

I tend to think the more the series can appeal to the lust for action and can look at first glance like it has classic "x wants revenge on y, and contradicting adaptations are sooo cool!" elements, the more likely the "RAAA!" people will get set in their ways. Like, when Mortal Kombat Armageddon came out, I wanted to see how the plot fit into the plot of the rest of the games, but really didn't see a need to buy it yet... and seeing that the very well thought-out plot guide by Gavoc hadn't been updated, I looked at someone else's. Let me quote an opening statement... wait, where the crap did this DriveCleaner ad come from? Guh...

I have been a Mortal
Kombat fan since the beginning of the series when Mortal Kombat 1 came out. So
I actually know what I am talking about when it comes to the Mortal Kombat
storyline unlike most people I hear from.

Not a good representation of how many typoes overpopulate said FAQ, but yeah... now let me quote the Daizex main page...

I can't find what I'm looking for. Hee, but usually when Mike says that he knows what he's talking about, it's usually "We like to think..." rather than "We've been around for around a decade and have seen all of the series so we know what we r talking about.". So... I guess we just created another class or two... the unnamed person quoted above is the person who notices the stupidity of the RAA!-jin and tries to overcompensate with their own knowledge, because they are aware that they are more knowledgeable than most of the fandom... but then it gets to their heads and they wind up using their "superiority" to ignore things that would actually make them look good. Essentially, the not-quite-elitest-people (nqep) that are above average, but too glad of absorbing #17 to realize that Vegeta is giving them the chance to absorb #18 and achieve their perfect form. And of course we have people who overcome all of this and actually learn that even though they may be on top, they can still keep going (Hmm, sounds like something a certain KameSen'nin may have once said...), because being the best doesn't give one the excuse to strut in perfection (Cell died, remember), but more of a drive to... umm... ok, ok.

So yeah... to summarize: RAA!-jin are the annoying people that are probably not on most forums legally in the first place (since a lot have that >12 requirement), or may just be riding too high on their hormones to care about anything, and the nature of both the series(that being DB/Z/GT) and how it has been marketed make it easy for the RAA!-jin to remain in the sespool(Sp?) of fandom. Then we have those who realize that you have to have a pretty shallow character to remain RAA!-jin, but once they ascend, they find themselves turning that enthused accomplishment into the mark of the NQEP. And then we just have assholes who are too hormonal to care, and those are the ones that are either into the series for RAA!-like reasons, or hate it for the same reason. And of course we have the elitists, the casual people with brains, and the fandom sages... but they're a different topic entirely.

Umm... yeah. I'd say it's a combination of the series, the marketting, and the nature of fandoms in modern society.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:54 pm

Rocketman wrote:Dragonball itself is to blame. Yes, it was a fairly deep and involving story about personal growth and whatnot. But, first and foremost, it's about muscular people beating each other's brains out. The lack of psuedo-intellectual content (lol, NGE) means casual fans are probably fans because they like the fighting.

I....agree, but in particular FUNimation (& even Ocean Studios to an extent) with its handling of the dub emphasized on those themes very greatly from its handling to the movies (putting All American rock bands for the music) to series itself (Bruce Falcouner). I felt the themes in music already empahasized to machoness of what was evident in Dragon Ball Z. Basically making from "meh" to "worst". Of course, I doubt even this would reduce the number of idiotic fans out there.

I also think it's because Dragon Ball Z in general is not as Japanese-centric as other animes, so it's very easy to pick for even the simplest minded of people.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:26 pm

Sometimes it seems a lot worse than it really is. It only takes one idiot who says something so stupid that it gets everyone's attention, and all of a sudden it's that one loud idiot who represents the whole of the fanbase. Dragonball has been around for a long time and has a huge fanbase. You have to take into account that you won't hear anything out of the majority of them, and the more-favorable fan's comments are often overlooked and it's just those few dozen idiots who stand out. It's unfortunate, but it's pretty common.

(I say few dozen as a measure to an individual community... like our community here, with a few dozen idiots out of 17 hundred users... as opposed to the communities at youtube or gamefaqs, which have their own couple dozen idiots.)

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:11 pm

I'll just break my thoughts down into several catagories...

DragonBall itself:
The series, in any form, is very simple to slip in and out of. You don't have to understand anything on a deeper level, you can just kind of start watching and enjoy the fights, or comedy, or whatever happens to catch your attention. This makes the show a fad among most kids. They watch it after school, and really love it, but have no intentions of educating themselves on it. Sure, they'll pick fights on the internet, and tell you you're wrong, and stir up all sorts of shit, but at the end of the day they don't really care. 99% of this fanbase will most likely stop watching the show after a couple years since it's boring now, or not cool anymore, or whatever.

FUNimation's dub:
What they did is brilliant from a marketing standpoint, and a major headache for many fans like us. As I stated above the show was already quite accessible, and FUNimation simply multiplied these points ten-fold. By marketing the series to an even younger demographic, and making aspects such as music and dialogue more appealing, FUNimation succesfully took the series right into the open arms of the "lowest common denominator". Their love for the series is fast, but furious. They'll run out and buy up all the products, tell all their friends about it, and worst of all fight us tooth and nail over bullshit. Their love of the series fades quickly, but the turnover rate of new kids is so fast that it simply doesn't matter.

The "hardcore" fans and the Japanese praising:
I think we obviously piss the casuals off because when little Jimmy comes onto the internet to talk about Hercule and finds a bunch of people telling him he's wrong, naturally he gets upset and defensive. We're also very quick to praise the Japanese version and the Japanese fans ("oh, they respect the show in Japan", etc.) above the American counterparts. It's pretty disrespectful to the American dub fans, and just because the Japanese view the show in the same way I prefer to, it doesn't mean that there isn't a bunch a babbling Japanese morons over there, all saying "Kuririn is the suxors!!1!".

The new age of anime / the "anti-fan":
Japanese animation has obviously exploded recently, and has collected an enormous and terrifying fanbase. Most of these fans are really no better than your typical 10-year-old DBZ fan, except that they're "the maturz" and only watch "good" anime. Thankfully most of them don't know any anime series that pre-dates 1998, so they generally don't disturb people like me. However, since DragonBall has a history here in North America, and is viewed as being "the kiddie", it just adds another reason as to why the DBZ fans are so vocal. We now don't have hardcore vs. fad-fan, but instead fad-fan vs. fad-fan, and seeing the outcome of these fights unfold on youtube comment threads is more disturbing to us than any sub vs. dub debate of the past.

My resolution:
They're just kids having fun on the internet...fuck 'em.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:52 pm

DBW wrote:just because the Japanese view the show in the same way I prefer to, it doesn't mean that there isn't a bunch a babbling Japanese morons over there, all saying "Kuririn is the suxors!!1!".

From what I've seen, it's really not that bad.
Then again, "Dragon Ball" fans tend to be much older than in the US, overall, so...

Iyouboushi · Post by **Iyouboushi** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:54 pm

I don't think it's just Dragon Ball. Have you seen the Inuyasha fanbase?

I remember back when [adult swim] had an April fool's joke to add mustaches to all the characters on the show. And until they showed Inuyasha with it, everyone was fine. Happy, even. It was a great laugh. ho ho ho. Then Inuyasha came on and they added mustaches to it, and holy freakin' crap! You would have thought the apocalypse was upon us! [as]'s board was flamed to near death (I remember not being able to connect half the time I tried) and so many fans were outraged that they had to re-show the same episode the next day to appease them.

Anyway, it's not just DB. However, when it comes to DB, it's possible that it's just the fact that many people think of it as corny or over-the-top. I mean, huge-muscled men powering their energy for what appears to be forever (or so they always joke, it never seemed that bad to me personally), saving the world from loony villains. Kids these days just don't want to be associated with something like that, I guess.

In that aspect, I agree with DBW's "the 'anti-fan'" point.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:09 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
DBW wrote:just because the Japanese view the show in the same way I prefer to, it doesn't mean that there isn't a bunch a babbling Japanese morons over there, all saying "Kuririn is the suxors!!1!".
From what I've seen, it's really not that bad.
Then again, "Dragon Ball" fans tend to be much older than in the US, overall, so...

Yeah, I don't really think there are Dragon Ball 'haters' in Japan. I was just making the point for the sake of argument (it is possible that some people on Japanese forums bitch about Dragon Ball after all). But yeah, based on the people I've met during exchanges, most people who enjoyed DB are now in their early-mid twenties. As for kids, they seem to either watch/read it or they don't...no real arguments over the subject.

But again, I've never been to a Japanese anime forum, so who knows...

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:10 pm

I think its the whole "squeaky wheel" thing. The louder people generally get heard. By louder I mean people who write only in caps lock. >_>

What bothers me most is the people who act like its only the caps lock people who like that show and thus get all snooty like they're "above" it and only watch the "in" series of the day.

I can deal with the caps lock people more than those snooty uptight people who won't watch anything made before 2002.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:07 am

I fully agree with DBW that it's a combination of all those things, continually perpetuated. Another big thing is the undying persistence of nearly all fans to keep up character strength debates and the like...seems like very few like being corrected once they think they know a thing or two. The wisest choice is just to stay out if it, which took me too damn long to figure out.

But a lot of other fanbases have it too. Zelda, Pokemon, Naruto...just too many stupid people in the world. Apathy and ignorance is dominating America's youth more and more. This moreso ties in to problems with our world in general, so I need not continue this unnecessary ranting.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:22 am

I personally think it isn't just DB. It's the anime scene as a whole that's stupid. As anime gets more and more popular, the "in-fighting" and divisions between various fans seems to be getting worse. Which is why I gave up on it long ago. This is one of the few places I continue to participate in as much as I do. There are very few anime-related sites I frequent regularly, and the ones I do, such as ANN, I try not to get too involved and just lurk more or less. As DBW mentioned, all these "weeaboos", "nimrods", and "unintelligible kids" aren't worth it.

TheJoo87 · Post by **TheJoo87** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:03 pm

DBW wrote:The new age of anime / the "anti-fan":

Japanese animation has obviously exploded recently, and has collected an enormous and terrifying fanbase. Most of these fans are really no better than your typical 10-year-old DBZ fan, except that they're "the maturz" and only watch "good" anime. Thankfully most of them don't know any anime series that pre-dates 1998, so they generally don't disturb people like me. However, since DragonBall has a history here in North America, and is viewed as being "the kiddie", it just adds another reason as to why the DBZ fans are so vocal. We now don't have hardcore vs. fad-fan, but instead fad-fan vs. fad-fan, and seeing the outcome of these fights unfold on youtube comment threads is more disturbing to us than any sub vs. dub debate of the past.

I have to say this one seems to be a pretty big contender in my mind.
To be perfectly honest this is really the only place where I even mention Dragonball whatsoever. I tend to stay away from anime fans as they seem to be in another world all to their own. I'm really now that big of an anime fan to begin with.

I only really like a few series and all of them are between ten and twenty years old. I hate the newer stuff, and I hate computer animation, none of it appeals to me, that and I don't honestly plan on "collecting" hundreds of anime dvds to have more shows and be looked upon as the greatest anime fan/otaku.

This seems to be the main problem with most people today, this is the way I see it at least. And now to my point, I know most anime fans like to believe they are "above it all" which is fine with me, I don't care, however they are also the ones that give Dragonball a bad name so I have to say they are a pretty good majority of the people that seem to give Dragonball a pretty good amount of trouble.

DBW wrote: My resolution:
They're just kids having fun on the internet...fuck 'em.

Agreed.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:54 pm

Though I don't frequent many other anime-based interweb places, here's how I usually deal with the whole anime elitist problem:

In his FanFiction.net profile, Sean wrote:My favorite anime/manga is, and always will be, DragonBall (all three series as a whole). Yeah, you heard me, pompous anime snobs of the world. DRAGONBALL. Watchoo gon' do about it, huh?

...And if anyone throws a fit over that, I just sit there and giggle.

"DragonBall: Pwnzing all your animes and mangas since 1984"

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:43 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:"DragonBall: Pwnzing all your animes and mangas since 1984"

=New signature quote. I hope QD doesn't feel rejected

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:47 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:"DragonBall: Pwnzing all your animes and mangas since 1984"
=New signature quote. I hope QD doesn't feel rejected :o

:D

Yay.

Mystic Jack · Post by **Mystic Jack** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:29 am

Very interesting topic indeed, and speaking for me personally here. I got into the show when I was about 8 years of age, meaning I didn't have the greatest brain power in the world, and I liked it because it was all action-y and whatnot, it just simply appealed to me.

And not insulting DragonBall in anyway, but perhaps where some of the lack of intelligence comes in where action sports nuts find it while browsing through Cartoon Network and really like it, let's face it, the fanbase definitely is a haven for that sort of thing...