Naming a form SSGSS and naming a form SSB

[ChiefWamsutta]

Okay, so to review...

1) Grade 4 --> God --> beyond God --> Super [Saiyan] beyond God
2) Base --> Beyond God --> Super [Saiyan] beyond God --> Blue

1 is the path taken by Goku during the Beerus arc. From a SSJ Grade 4, Goku becomes a SSJ God using the ritual. When the time limit expires, he becomes a Super Saiyan beyond God, which obviously stems from a Saiyan beyond God. These two forms have the power of a Super Saiyan God while utilizing human Ki. Hence the two-base theory.

2 is the path both Goku and Vegeta take during and after the training under Whis (Golden Freeza arc onward). They goes from their normal Base to their Base with the power of SSJ God. From that form, they can become a Super Saiyan (with the same type of power utilization; also including SSJ2 and 3 where needed) and a Super Saiyan Blue (essentially a perfected Super Saiyan God; literally a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan).

That should be all. Hopefully you can connect the paths without any trouble.

Thank you for the assistance. Now, see I had Grade 4 --> SSGod and someone told me to change it into Base --> SSGod.

I'm trying to create the most holistic graphic and take in many other ideas from people, but I don't see consistency. This makes it tricky. In my post right above your moat recent one I added in Saiyan Beyond God as the second strongest form Goku has (next to SSB) because of Krillin's quote that I posted.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I totally get the logic but the thing is I don't believe Goku actually had God Ki after he lost the SSG form. I believe Beerus says something to the effect of:

"It seems like just by tasting that power your body has pushed itself to new heights"

I don't believe its ever stated he still had God Ki in that form, just that his body felt such intense power it strengthened him even after losing the form. I believe this is from the movie (may be wrong) but considering Toriyama had more to do with the movie than opening part of the series I choose the movie as canon for these debates. Its fine to disagree though if you prefer the Super retelling as canon.

Anyway my point is that he was just a regular Super Saiyan Goku fighting Beerus and not a SSGSS. Again just my opinion on the subject.

[Xeztin]

When Goku dropped out of SSG and was still a SSJ, I'm pretty sure he didn't absorb the God Ki but held onto the power itself at of pure will and strength. After he dropped out of SSJ he went back to being how he was Pre-Bog. RoF is what gave us the idea that Goku "absorbed" God Ki because of his base fighting Freeza but maybe he didn't actually absorb it at all but gained it just like Vegeta did under training with Whis. I find it strange that the Original SSG couldn't do the same thing Goku did and absorb the God Ki and become SSJB unless Goku simply didn't do this. The original SSG died as soon as the form left him I believe.

[Mazingerdestro]

Ssjgod=Goku turns to a God
Ssjblue=Goku can transform in ssj but instead of normal ki he uses God ki. His appearance doesn't change and his body stays muscular.

What we saw in episode 14 was a normal ssj but with a power boost due to the fact that his body adapted/absorbed the God ki.

Basically his power level in base increased and also learned how to identify God ki.

There was nothing godly in Goku in episode 14. The anime gives us hints that maybe before the stick training, Goku couldn't activate his God ki.

[Nejishiki]

When Goku dropped out of SSG and was still a SSJ, I'm pretty sure he didn't absorb the God Ki but held onto the power itself at of pure will and strength. After he dropped out of SSJ he went back to being how he was Pre-Bog. RoF is what gave us the idea that Goku "absorbed" God Ki because of his base fighting Freeza but maybe he didn't actually absorb it at all but gained it just like Vegeta did under training with Whis. I find it strange that the Original SSG couldn't do the same thing Goku did and absorb the God Ki and become SSJB unless Goku simply didn't do this. The original SSG died as soon as the form left him I believe.

I'm afraid your continuity details are mixed up a bit. Battle of Gods has Goku absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God. Dragon Ball Super doesn't reference that detail in the slightest. Resurrection F wasn't responsible for the idea. It's exclusive to Battle of Gods while Resurrection F simply follows its continuity. Furthermore, Battle of Gods cites Goku absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God as an unique phenomenon. There shouldn't be anything strange about that. As far as those two films are concerned, Goku is the lone individual to accomplish that. The original Super Saiyan God was not only an accidental creation but its user failed due their power expiring. With the evil Saiyans prevailing, the record of Super Saiyan God was erased from history.

Shen Long: "A Super Saiyan God is a savior, created by chance by a handful of righteous Saiyans, who long ago questioned the evil acts of their fellow Saiyans, and led a revolt against them. This savior had immense power, and dispatched the evil Saiyans in no time at all, but shortly thereafter, they returned to normal, with their power apparently used up. Once again, Planet Vegeta became a world of evil Saiyans, and the savior was also eliminated from their legends."

Beerus: "It seems as though while you had turned God and were fighting me, you absorbed that world into your body. Which is why, even though you've returned to normal, you haven't powered down all that much. You're something else. I might even say you're one of those rarely-seen prodigies."

Ssjgod=Goku turns to a God
Ssjblue=Goku can transform in ssj but instead of normal ki he uses God ki. His appearance doesn't change and his body stays muscular.

What we saw in episode 14 was a normal ssj but with a power boost due to the fact that his body adapted/absorbed the God ki.

Basically his power level in base increased and also learned how to identify God ki.

There was nothing godly in Goku in episode 14. The anime gives us hints that maybe before the stick training, Goku couldn't activate his God ki.

Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue both grant its user a slim figure. That's the intention going by Toriyama's designs. As noted before, absorbing Super Saiyan God isn't mentioned in Dragon Ball Super. The mechanics of Super Saiyan God are foreign between all sources. Instead, the anime continuity of Dragon Ball Super implies the power from the ritual isn't temporary, claims Goku doesn't power down as he did in the film, and treats his accomplishment as a standard transformation as opposed to reaching an otherworldly realm of strength. I don't think Beerus retains dialogue of Goku being anything special for his accomplishments either. This is likely because the history and rules of Super Saiyan God are completely different from its Battle of Gods counterpart. The time limit is absent, for one.

Shen Long: "Super Saiyan God is a god from Saiyan mythology, and does not currently exist. However, I can tell you the method for creating him. This is recorded in a Namekian book of legends: 'If five Saiyans with righteous hearts join hands and pour their hearts into another righteous Saiyan, he will become the god of the Saiyans. In other words, he will become Super Saiyan God.'"

The manga continuity of Dragon Ball Super features Goku feeling an otherworldly power reminiscent of Battle of Gods' scripting. However, there's no dialogue about him absorbing the form or keeping Super Saiyan God's power independent from its transformation. Beerus notes Goku is getting a handle of Super Saiyan God, believes him to wane in strength when the battle is taken to the stratosphere, and is pleasantly surprised when Goku can pull even more Super Saiyan God power from within himself to prevent Earth's destruction. Goku is left drained of all of his fighting might and is told to become stronger in the future by Beerus without detail from the other two sources provided. There exist three separate interpretations of Super Saiyan God.

[Mazingerdestro]

Goku getting slimmer in ssjgod is used in the movie, the anime, and the manga.
Toriyama's designs are not related to ssjgod's body due to the fact that nowadays Toriyama draws all his characters skinny. Goku in every form is skinny, black, Trunks, Zamasu etc.
Our only official examples are what Toei animation and Toyotaro produce.
Everything else is your speculations and most of the info provided are unrelated to what the post asks or I am saying since Beerus admits that Goku changed somehow even after losing the ssjgod form.

[Nejishiki]

I have this impression that my response wasn't thoroughly read. Firstly, my previous post described Super Saiyan God, alongside Super Saiyan Blue, as being intended to give its user a slim figure. I'm incredibly confused by your reply in which you reiterate information I covered already. In fact, it was in response to "Ssjblue=Goku can transform in ssj but instead of normal ki he uses God ki. His appearance doesn't change and his body stays muscular." that I elaborated what I did. So while I'm glad we're on the same page, I'd appreciate it if you didn't respond as if I claimed otherwise and wasn't addressing thoughts you shared before.

Secondly, Toriyama's art style is not a factor towards characters in-universe noticing Goku becoming slimmer when using the power of Super Saiyan God. In-universe, the characters have their normal physiques. From the quotes provided, it's apparent that Goku, and later Vegeta, are intended to appear differently from normal when using that transformation. Our "official examples" support this.

Turtle Hermit: "You're right. He also looks a bit thinner."

Chi-Chi: "He's gotten younger, ain't he?"

Finally, and this is part of me believing you didn't thoroughly read my message (apologies if that wasn't the case and misunderstanding was present), where do you believe I added speculation? I supported my analysis of the three sources with references and notations of how dialogue was amended from each other, creating alternate interpretations. That includes how Beerus treats Goku with Super Saiyan God, where I provided evidence in which his reaction isn't uniform between the continuities. The relation to your post was to comprehensively address your Super Saiyan Blue remark. Overall, I was detailing a complete response about Super Saiyan God and how it "worked" compared to other sources. I quoted you because I was covering the material already. It's not strictly a standalone message for one member of the forum.

[iAnimationLover_]

To be honest i would name "SSG" as Saiyan god and "SSGSS" as the Super saiyan god




Simple isnt it? xD