Does anyone else think Super is awful?

[Presto88]

Conceptually its fantastic, execution though, woeful, especially if comparing to the quality Dragonball/Z. There is so much potential for this because the concepts are so damn strong, problem is, it fails utterly in terms of technical elements such as visuals, music, action choreography etc. Furthermore as far as execution is concerned, even though the concepts are fantastic, there are also a lot of missed opportunities, characters usage is generally poor, many character personalities have been butchered, to the point where everybody is effectively a joke, none of the Z warriors have any kind of intimidation factor about them anymore, and yes, even though they still have plenty of screen time, this applies to both Goku and Vegeta.

Vegeta is just a clown of a character to me now, a pitiful self parody version of his former self, and Goku, poor Goku, not only has he become a mental invalid, his masterful and intimidating use in Z is all but a memory. When Goku showed up in Z, things got real, every single time, Nappa, Recoome, Freeza, Cell, Fat Buu, every time, epic scenes, whether they were conversations, stare downs, transformations, fights or all the above. In saying all that I do enjoy the manga, the issues I've highlighted are nowhere near as prevalent (mainly due to the medium) the concepts are in tact, the pacing good and art beautiful, a shame the television adaptation has been a huge missed opportunity.

[Ki Breaker]

Conceptually its fantastic, execution though, woeful, especially if comparing to the quality Dragonball/Z. There is so much potential for this because the concepts are so damn strong, problem is, it fails utterly in terms of technical elements such as visuals, music, action choreography etc. Furthermore as far as execution is concerned, even though the concepts are fantastic, there are also a lot of missed opportunities, characters usage is generally poor, many character personalities have been butchered, to the point where everybody is effectively a joke, none of the Z warriors have any kind of intimidation factor about them anymore, and yes, even though they still have plenty of screen time, this applies to both Goku and Vegeta.

Vegeta is just a clown of a character to me now, a pitiful self parody version of his former self, and Goku, poor Goku, not only has he become a mental invalid, his masterful and intimidating use in Z is all but a memory. When Goku showed up in Z, things got real, every single time, Nappa, Recoome, Freeza, Cell, Fat Buu, every time, epic scenes, whether they were conversations, stare downs, transformations, fights or all the above. In saying all that I do enjoy the manga, the issues I've highlighted are nowhere near as prevalent (mainly due to the medium) the concepts are in tact, the pacing good and art beautiful, a shame the television adaptation has been a huge missed opportunity.

Yes! These are all what the raw feelings are about..
Many would argue goku becomes serious while fighting sometimes but it dosen't change the fact it dosen't feel right..
I fully agree with you on the Vegeta part, but for some reason its yet again seen as having "character development"..
It isn't development if the character turns boring as hell..

[Hellspawn28]

Can One Punch Man survive without Madhouse? What would the draw be to these shows if they didn't have seasonal budgets?

I think it would since OPM had a good story to it. I don't think even think OPM is the best anime that Mad House even work on. Mad House has done better anime 10-20+ years ago in my opinion.

I've seen few shows this season, but from the ones I've seen or taken a look at (Ajin, Flip Flappers, Pokémon Sun & Moon, Drifters and Keijo), they're incomparably worse than DBS. It's embarrassing the amount of absolute dogshit the industry is putting out these days.

As a fan of the Ajin manga, I think the CG animation was not bad. Japan is known to make shitty CG, but I thought the show looked bad.

[Doctor.]

As a fan of the Ajin manga, I think the CG animation was not bad. Japan is known to make shitty CG, but I thought the show looked bad.

It's not the CG I take an issue with, I've read the manga before the anime came out and I think it's a mess as well.

[SSJ Human]

When Goku showed up in Z, things got real, every single time, Nappa, Recoome, Freeza, Cell, Fat Buu, every time, epic scenes, whether they were conversations, stare downs, transformations, fights or all the above. In saying all that I do enjoy the manga, the issues I've highlighted are nowhere near as prevalent (mainly due to the medium) the concepts are in tact, the pacing good and art beautiful, a shame the television adaptation has been a huge missed opportunity.

That's another thing that got messed up by him being the most focused on. That whole trend of having the villains fight other characters and then he shows up to make things more serious. They could have had Vegeta fight Black when he came back to the past, and then Goku would fight him in the future, where Black would show off SSJR for the first time.

The manga gets a pass for being forced to adapt this story, but when it does it usually doesn't drag out and again does away with some of the unexplained parts of the story like the Supreme Kai and Kibito thing.

[TheMikado]

Conceptually its fantastic, execution though, woeful, especially if comparing to the quality Dragonball/Z. There is so much potential for this because the concepts are so damn strong, problem is, it fails utterly in terms of technical elements such as visuals, music, action choreography etc. Furthermore as far as execution is concerned, even though the concepts are fantastic, there are also a lot of missed opportunities, characters usage is generally poor, many character personalities have been butchered, to the point where everybody is effectively a joke, none of the Z warriors have any kind of intimidation factor about them anymore, and yes, even though they still have plenty of screen time, this applies to both Goku and Vegeta.

Vegeta is just a clown of a character to me now, a pitiful self parody version of his former self, and Goku, poor Goku, not only has he become a mental invalid, his masterful and intimidating use in Z is all but a memory. When Goku showed up in Z, things got real, every single time, Nappa, Recoome, Freeza, Cell, Fat Buu, every time, epic scenes, whether they were conversations, stare downs, transformations, fights or all the above. In saying all that I do enjoy the manga, the issues I've highlighted are nowhere near as prevalent (mainly due to the medium) the concepts are in tact, the pacing good and art beautiful, a shame the television adaptation has been a huge missed opportunity.

Yes! These are all what the raw feelings are about..
Many would argue goku becomes serious while fighting sometimes but it dosen't change the fact it dosen't feel right..
I fully agree with you on the Vegeta part, but for some reason its yet again seen as having "character development"..
It isn't development if the character turns boring as hell..

This can't be stated enough. And honestly it's not even the anime fault, those prolonged elements were part of a production necessity but also have the advantage on fleshing out parts that may not have gotten as much attention in the manga. I mean the Majin Vegeta/ Goku stare down in the Buu arc was pretty much a whole episode of them staring each other down. It was crazy because through all the secondary and tertiary characters you could feel the raw tension and power. It literally felt like a mouse watching and holding its breath while two elephants stared each other down. I'm taking a step bac a looking at how dangerously close Dragonball was to teetering into mediocrity. But they managed to get so much just right even if it wasn't perfect and that's how I feel about Super. Some slight changes, Goku being less Luffy, Vegeta being more of a foil and anti hero, slowing the pace just a bit but not padding it. More exposition. There's so much that could be better to really being a great product.

[Esfír Dedragón]

I still can't get over some of things the series has introduced (Super Saiyan God, Golden Frieza, Altered Timeline, the garbage-pairing-that-I-will-not-name, etc.)

At this point, rather than get on the hype train whenever new arcs and episodes are shown, I just sit back and watch the train wreck happen and get a few laughs out of it, especially since it's apparently popular enough for Toei and an even more lethargic Toriyama to defecate out more stuff.

I can still appreciate some things that I thought were worthy to be part of the franchise.

Those were introduced before Super's inception.

Yes, that's true.

I meant to say that I didn't want to see those specific ideas from two DBZ movies get incorporated into two arcs. Even I must admit that the movies executed the concepts much better than how Super did.

[Lord Beerus]

I still can't get over some of things the series has introduced (Super Saiyan God, Golden Frieza, Altered Timeline, the garbage-pairing-that-I-will-not-name, etc.)

At this point, rather than get on the hype train whenever new arcs and episodes are shown, I just sit back and watch the train wreck happen and get a few laughs out of it, especially since it's apparently popular enough for Toei and an even more lethargic Toriyama to defecate out more stuff.

I can still appreciate some things that I thought were worthy to be part of the franchise.

Those were introduced before Super's inception.

Yes, that's true.

I meant to say that I didn't want to see those specific ideas from two DBZ movies get incorporated into two arcs. Even I must admit that the movies executed the concepts much better than how Super did.

Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue pretty much had to be included in some way in Super if the Toriyama's plot for the show was going to movie forward. There's nothing that could be really done about that.

[DBZAOTA482]

The Super manga is alright. It's the anime that sucks dragonballs.

[Esfír Dedragón]

Those were introduced before Super's inception.

Yes, that's true.

I meant to say that I didn't want to see those specific ideas from two DBZ movies get incorporated into two arcs. Even I must admit that the movies executed the concepts much better than how Super did.

Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue pretty much had to be included in some way in Super if the Toriyama's plot for the show was going to movie forward. There's nothing that could be really done about that.

Well, when I first heard that Super was going to be made, I was expecting it to be made after the 10 year gap.
At the time, I viewed the movies the same way I viewed the 2008 special; just some stand alone "What Ifs?'"

[sintzu]

When Goku showed up in Z, things got real, every single time, epic scenes, whether they were conversations, stare downs, transformations, fights or all the above.

Yes! These are all what the raw feelings are about..
Many would argue goku becomes serious while fighting sometimes but it dosen't change the fact it dosen't feel right..

I really miss Z Goku, he was such an epic badass, he was the only character who could pull of being a fun happy character and a badass at the same time.

#MakeGokuGreatAgain.

[kinisking]

When Goku showed up in Z, things got real, every single time, epic scenes, whether they were conversations, stare downs, transformations, fights or all the above.

Yes! These are all what the raw feelings are about..
Many would argue goku becomes serious while fighting sometimes but it dosen't change the fact it dosen't feel right..

I really miss Z Goku, he was such an epic badass, he was the only character who could pull of being a fun happy character and a badass at the same time.

#MakeGokuGreatAgain.

I think boo saga Gohan did that just fine.

Goku's still badass in super though.

[sintzu]

I think boo saga Gohan did that just fine.

He was a well written character as well but he wasn't like Goku, there's something about Z Goku that made him special.

[Freeza9000]

The Super manga is alright. It's the anime that sucks dragonballs.

I don't think the manga is that much better either. Considering its rushed nature nowadays and diminishing antagonists such as Black and Hit, I prefer the anime significantly.

[kinisking]

I'm surprised at the amount of negativity considering I saw so many of you gushing positivity during the FT arc.

[Gafonso6]

I'm surprised at the amount of negativity considering I saw so many of you gushing positivity during the FT arc.

It's the natural order of every fandom, first comes hype, then negativity, then if the thing that was hyped was bad comes denial and then hate, if it was good comes love, then negativity and then love. Of course that opinions and bandwagons affect this order.

[sintzu]

I'm surprised at the amount of negativity considering I saw so many of you gushing positivity during the FT arc.

That's because the arc was overall good but it still kept some issues from the previous arcs like the way Goku's written and the Pilaf gang.

[TheMikado]

The Super manga is alright. It's the anime that sucks dragonballs.

I don't think the manga is that much better either. Considering its rushed nature nowadays and diminishing antagonists such as Black and Hit, I prefer the anime significantly.

I think the problem is really the outline, both are trying to overcome the limitations of what is presented and unfortunately everything not meshing because Super wasn't actually written with a story, just a series of things that should happen and fill in the blanks. What did people really expect was going to happen when someone hands a production crew an outline and says here, you connect the dots and write the story.

[kinisking]

I'm surprised at the amount of negativity considering I saw so many of you gushing positivity during the FT arc.

That's because the arc was overall good but it still kept some issues from the previous arcs like the way Goku's written and the Pilaf gang.

Goku, I guess.

I don't think the Pilaf gang was that bad though. It was at first but they were a non factor by the end of the arc

[Esfír Dedragón]

I'm surprised at the amount of negativity considering I saw so many of you gushing positivity during the FT arc.

That's because the arc was overall good but it still kept some issues from the previous arcs like the way Goku's written and the Pilaf gang.

Goku, I guess.

I don't think the Pilaf gang was that bad though. It was at first but they were a non factor by the end of the arc

Well, I certainly didn't approach the FT arc with positivity.

If anything, I was just cautiously optimistic given how much of a suspension of disbelief I had to accept up at that point in DB Super.

I think it was right about the time when they introduced that half-baked time loop(?) and Trunks's... *snickers*... "Super Saiyan Rage" that I could no longer hope for anything better (except for maybe Vegito's appearance and when Merged Zamasu was cut in half... I was almost roped into thinking that the ending would at least be great)