Freeza's power levels?

[Humpski]

I just watched the episode where Freeza fights Nail and he stated that his own power level was around 360,000 or so. That seems a little low for Freeza, is he only talking about his first form?

[Duo]

I just watched the episode where Freeza fights Nail and he stated that his own power level was around 360,000 or so. That seems a little low for Freeza, is he only talking about his first form?

In the Manga, he states his power level, for his first form, is 530,000 "but he'll hold back this time.".

When he transforms into his second stage, he says his power level is "over a million".

And the Daizenshuu clarifies his Final stage at 100% is 120,000,000.

[Conan the SSJ]

And the Daizenshuu clarifies his Final stage at 100% is 120,000,000.

I'm fairly certain it's 12,000,000. Everything on Freeza's final form 100% level I've ever checked on (excluding the Daizenshuu) has stated such, including the DBZ Sagas game (which pretty much gets all the levels right). You're sure the Daizenshuu says this? Or maybe you misspelled?

[Thanos6]

And the Daizenshuu clarifies his Final stage at 100% is 120,000,000.

I'm fairly certain it's 12,000,000. Everything on Freeza's final form 100% level I've ever checked on (excluding the Daizenshuu) has stated such, including the DBZ Sagas game (which pretty much gets all the levels right). You're sure the Daizenshuu says this? Or maybe you misspelled?

The Daizenshuu DOES say 120 million. I, however, view that (and SS Goku as 150 million) as typoes, and take them as 12 and 15.

[zoiozazu]

Yeah, the Daizenshuu shows this. But they probably added a O...

[Duo]

The Daizenshuu listings of 120,000,000 and 150,000,000 for Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku are correct. If anything, really, Freeza should be much closer to Goku.

Besides, they also have...

Goku - 3,000,000
Kaioken x10 - 30,000,000
Kaioken x20 - 60,000,000

Too self-consistent to be author typo's. I've seen scans of the pages themselves. That's how it reads, and I see no reason to contest it.

[Godo]

First before I add my two cents, I want to know if Freeza told the others that his powerlevel doubled with each transformation?

[Thanos6]

Nope. That was either dub or fan added.

[Godo]

Nope. That was either dub or fan added.

What was it with his two fingers he help up when telling about his powers in the manga then?

[Thanos6]

Nope. That was either dub or fan added.

What was it with his two fingers he help up when telling about his powers in the manga then?

"I have TWO MORE transformations!"

[Xyex]

What was it with his two fingers he help up when telling about his powers in the manga then?

If you're talking about what I think you are, that's him explaining he has two forms left.

The Daizenshuu listings of 120,000,000 and 150,000,000 for Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku are correct. If anything, really, Freeza should be much closer to Goku.

Besides, they also have...

Goku - 3,000,000
Kaioken x10 - 30,000,000
Kaioken x20 - 60,000,000

Too self-consistent to be author typo's. I've seen scans of the pages themselves. That's how it reads, and I see no reason to contest it.

I see plenty of reason to contest it. If I was Freeza and I had a power level over 60 million, and the strongest Saiya-jin was only 180,000 when transformed I'd have absolutely no fear of them what-so-ever. A 12 million maximum, however, of which I'm only sure of maybe 8 million, sure, I'd be more worried.

And that just made me remember something. Doesn't Freeza say he had more power than he thought he did? Wouldn't that mean that his "50%" is actually LESS than half of his true full power?

[Dayspring]

Planet Namek stole their PL list from the Grand Line. The Grand Line made a mistranslation. From there, every fansite stole from each other and from Planet Namek, explaining the 300,000 Goku PL, 15 milliion SSJ PL, and Freeza's PLs poping up everywhere.

When Goku arrives, he dwarves Vegeta's PL who in turn dwarves Piccolo's who only has a PL of 1 million. Piccolo's 1 million PL makes sense since he's capable of going head-to-head with second form Freeza, who's PL is manga-stated to be "over 1 million." Goku using kaioken x20 is equal to half of Freeza's max, right? That means it's impossible for Freeza and Goku to have PLs under 20 million, which is what you guys are arguing.

"Way over an amount way over 1 million" got estimated by the daizenshuu as being 3 million for Goku prior to kaioken. From there it was basic math. 3 million x20 = 60 million, which is Freeza's halfway mark. 60 million x2 = 120 million, getting you Freeza's max. That means SSJ has to be more powerful than kaioken x 40 in order for Goku to defeat Freeza, so the daizenshuu says SSJ = x50. 3 million x 50 = the 150 million.

I can understand if you feel 3 million for Goku is too big, but it just simply can't be below 1 million. (1 million x kaioken x20) x2 = 40 million minimum for Freeza at full power using manga statements alone. SSJ Goku is obviously stronger still.

EDIT: Here's a scan of someone's Japanese Daizenshuu:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/ ... Levels.jpg

The only screw ups in PLs are Radditz in this section (1500 instead of 1200 as mentioned everywhere else in the manga, anime and even the same daizenshuu), and they got oddly lazy with Goku's and Nappa's PLs in this section (Goku is "over 8000" so they rounded down to 8000, despite giving the others specific PLs, and they also rounded Nappa down to 4000 despite his bio saying he's "in the 4000s").

[Tyro]

What was it with his two fingers he help up when telling about his powers in the manga then?

Freeza: "My power increases hugely every time I transform...And I have two more transformations left."

I see plenty of reason to contest it. If I was Freeza and I had a power level over 60 million, and the strongest Saiya-jin was only 180,000 when transformed I'd have absolutely no fear of them what-so-ever. A 12 million maximum, however, of which I'm only sure of maybe 8 million, sure, I'd be more worried.

Let's go with the Daizenshuu and just assume Freeza's base was 3,000,000 (also using the quote above about his power and transformations). Goku was right there, equal to him, without the aid of the Kaio-ken. Goku stated he used the Kaio-ken in bursts, and, heck, it's simply not present until later in the fight. Freeza, while only using 50% of his power outdid Goku who used the Kaio-ken 20-fold (60,000,000) plus a Kamehameha, a move that multiplies the user's power (Goku against Raditz and Vegeta). Double that and you get full power.

And that just made me remember something. Doesn't Freeza say he had more power than he thought he did? Wouldn't that mean that his "50%" is actually LESS than half of his true full power?

Do you remember a specific time you think Freeza said this? Because to my memory Freeza never mentioned such.

Piccolo's who only has a PL of 1 million. Piccolo's 1 million PL makes sense since he's capable of going head-to-head with second form Freeza, who's PL is manga-stated to be "over 1 million."

Piccolo had to be higher than that. Freeza was already stated to be "over 1,000,000" when he fought against Vegeta, Gohan and Kuririn started. After Gohan hits him around do to his increase in anger (and power!) Freeza powers up. He's now above "over 1,000,000." Piccolo fights him and they seem about even, although Vegeta states Piccolo's better. Freeza powers up again to fight Piccolo. He beats Piccolo around now. Piccolo now gets up off the ground, takes off his weighted clothing, and states he'll now get serious. Considering his confidence that he could now beat Freeza, I'd say he was stronger than him.

The only screw ups in PLs are Radditz in this section (1500 instead of 1200 as mentioned everywhere else in the manga

Raditz and the Saibaimen were stated to be "over 1,200" by Nappa. You probably knew that, but I'm just informing those who didn't.

[lets go swimming]

And the Daizenshuu clarifies his Final stage at 100% is 120,000,000.

I'm fairly certain it's 12,000,000. Everything on Freeza's final form 100% level I've ever checked on (excluding the Daizenshuu) has stated such, including the DBZ Sagas game (which pretty much gets all the levels right). You're sure the Daizenshuu says this? Or maybe you misspelled?

The Daiz were mistranslated years ago, and the mistranslation has stuck around ever since.

[Xyex]

Do you remember a specific time you think Freeza said this? Because to my memory Freeza never mentioned such.

I believe it was after he survived the Spirit Bomb. Though, this could be a dub line (like his 1% of his full power line he gave Goku at one point) but I do know it was said.

I can understand if you feel 3 million for Goku is too big, but it just simply can't be below 1 million. (1 million x kaioken x20) x2 = 40 million minimum for Freeza at full power using manga statements alone. SSJ Goku is obviously stronger still.

It's entirely possible for Goku to be under a million because nothing says that Freeza was trying at the start of their match, or until Goku actually got serious with the Kaio Ken for that matter.

[Tyro]

I believe it was after he survived the Spirit Bomb. Though, this could be a dub line (like his 1% of his full power line he gave Goku at one point) but I do know it was said.

Freeza: "Even I thought I was dead...I nearly was... *later* Do you think I'll let them go? Not one of you will leave here alive...! I am still more than a match for all of you!!!!"

It's entirely possible for Goku to be under a million because nothing says that Freeza was trying at the start of their match, or until Goku actually got serious with the Kaio Ken for that matter.

He couldn't have been under a million. He was equal with Freeza the entire time, without using the Kaio-ken. Where did it show Freeza even trying to hold back? I know there's the time when he fought with only his legs, but Goku knocked him back and made Freeza use his hands.

[Folken-sama]

It's entirely possible for Goku to be under a million because nothing says that Freeza was trying at the start of their match, or until Goku actually got serious with the Kaio Ken for that matter.

Goku, without any power up, is almost equal with Form 4 Freeza at the very beginning. Thus Goku is stronger than Vegeta, who himself was stronger than Piccolo, who was himself equal or even stronger than Form 2 Freeza, stated to be "over 1 million".

It is thus impossible for Goku to be under 1 million if he's stronger than all the others who previously fought Freeza.

[Thanos6]

Where do we have the proof of Goku not using the Kaioken? Going by the manga, he doesn't have the aura at all that I can see.

[Conan the SSJ]

Where do we have the proof of Goku not using the Kaioken? Going by the manga, he doesn't have the aura at all that I can see.

When Tien brings up Goku still having the Kaioken as a trump card, Kaio senses that Goku's started using it in a number of bursts, only to prove completely futile against Freeza. Not certain if this was in the manga as well. This occurs when Freeza's already gone to 50%.

[desirecampbell]

Where do we have the proof of Goku not using the Kaioken? Going by the manga, he doesn't have the aura at all that I can see.

I though Kaio said that Goku was using Kaioken-x-10 at all times.