Did Super ruin some characters for you?

[Lunaar]

Videl? Within the span of a year since Boo was defeated, she basically became an entirely different character? Anyone? Just me? I'll back up my thoughts if anyone disagrees, but she was IMMEDIATELY who came to mind when I saw this thread title.

[Cipher]

I'm going to skirt the somewhat hyperbolic question the thread is asking and try to respond to this in two ways:

1) No; as an addendum to the original, completed story, Super is incapable of "ruining" a character. All of the original material still exists.

2) However, looking at the greater story Super will tell by the time of its completion, consisting of both its content and the manga, there are characters who I think are done a greater disservice than they would be simply capping their stories off with the Boo arc. It is worse character-writing to have Goku change for ten arcs, then have him stagnate for four than it is to simply jump to the epilogue (we'll see if the new arc addresses it, as inconsistent as its character-writing is). It's one thing to imply Gohan, Goten or Trunks don't change considerably for ten years, and another to continue to foreground them in stories that show them not changing, even as interesting events continue to happen around them. And so on and so forth.

Thus far, Future Trunks is the only character I think has genuinely benefitted from the way Super extends the story, and that's in part because he's such a non-character, or at the very least underexplored, in the original run.

[HybridSaiyan]

Super ruined Vegeta for me because of this

I wouldn't go as far as to say "ruin", but man do I miss Vegeta. I miss hotblooded rival Vegeta so damn much. He was ridiculous, but he was so much fun to watch in action. I don't like where they've been steering him in Super as of late. VegeBul is so boring to me. "Nervous anxiety around Beerus" Vegeta is tiring by this point. Vegeta isn't even my favorite, but watching him fade into the background breaks my heart in a way where I get where Gohan and Piccolo fans are coming from in not wanting a character they like to be sidelined in that way.

The only character who has been completely ruined for me is future trunks though..

I'm still having a hard time believing that's the same Future Trunks from the Cell Saga lol.

My image of him is ruined forever.

[Lord Frieza]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... ....Nope.

[Lunaar]

I'm going to skirt the somewhat hyperbolic question the thread is asking and try to respond to this in two ways:

1) No; as an addendum to the original, completed story, Super is incapable of "ruining" a character. All of the original material still exists.

2) However, looking at the greater story Super will tell by the time of its completion, consisting of both its content and the manga, there are characters who I think are done a greater disservice than they would be simply capping their stories off with the Boo arc. It is worse character-writing to have Goku change for ten arcs, then have him stagnate for four than it is to simply jump to the epilogue (we'll see if the new arc addresses it, as inconsistent as its character-writing is). It's one thing to imply Gohan, Goten or Trunks don't change considerably for ten years, and another to continue to foreground them in stories that show them not changing, even as interesting events continue to happen around them. And so on and so forth.

Thus far, Future Trunks is the only character I think has genuinely benefitted from the way Super extends the story, and that's in part because he's such a non-character, or at the very least underexplored, in the original run.

All excellent points. Viewer interpretation for a ten year gap is a much safer bet than filling in the blanks with characters that do not change as Universe ending stakes are played up.

I'm going to take this opportunity to tie this very loosely into my own response on Videl earlier and just flip this discussion up: I don't agree with what anybody is saying here about "so and so was ruined because blee-bloo." Out of all the many different interpretations of how characters have been portrayed over the years by Toriyama, Toei staff and everyone in-between... Super actually has them down for me pretty well. Sorry, but I don't see Goku taking much seriously any more after obtaining strength like this. I hope something happens before we reach the EoZ chapters, just to give him some sort of development over the last ten years, but... the show is rather messy on that so far. Not holding my breath. Vegeta mellowing out is an absolute joy to see for me. Gohan doing what he wants instead of training like a nut is endearing. The only issue I have is how people don't seem to age, but that's really to the fault of Toei's staff (or maybe Toriyama not providing enough material for Toei to work with)... and of course, as I mentioned, Videl.

I know I'm going straight into hypocritical territory here, but Videl sort of goes beyond "man, she would have never said that or done this" - she looks, acts and sounds entirely different... to me. I was okay with Chichi 180ing into an over-protective mother within the five years of raising Gohan - but Gohan and Videl were together for one year before we saw her take on a new fashion sense, new mannerisms... Should I suspend my disbelief and assume that after the entire Boo scenario (plus getting her ass kicked at the Tenka'ichi Budokai), she wanted to put her fighting days behind her? Maybe she wasn't as well developed as Gohan. Gohan's development is completely understandable to me, so maybe I'm totally nitpicking here. All that being said, "ruin" isn't the right word to be used here, or for anybody's qualms with character representation in Super. To me, Videl will always be the hot-headed yet sheepish tomboy that isn't afraid to get in anyone's face. Perhaps Super just has not given her enough material for those traits to shine through. ...maybe I just don't like her hair either. I have no idea. My point is that my interpretations of character arcs are not wrong or right. They're just mine.

...unless I were trying to tell you that Vegeta had an affair with Goku in the RoSaT or that Freeza reproduces via hidden sexual organs. Then I'm just lying to you with baseless ideas to fit my own agenda.

Super is a new project in a new generation with new ideas. The manga is a product of it's time and will never change. We should be talking more about how we don't like somebody else's interpretation of our characters, rather than how they "ruined them." That's your fault if you decide not to like Vegeta anymore because it doesn't line up with how another person thought that Vegeta doing a Bingo dance would be "in character." Don't give me the "but Toriyama is working on this" stuff. Is he writing the script? Is looking at every storyboard and giving the last word? We don't know how deep his word goes, just that Toei comes to him for plot threads and he responds with them and some character designs to boot.

It's all of this uncertainty that doesn't really make me lose much sleep on what characters do or say. Super might as well be somebody else's legend told over a campfire.

TL;DR: Relax. Everybody's still just as cool as you want them to be.

[Avok]

Yes, I absolutely hate Goku's incarnation in Super.

Other character I have mixed feelings about is Future Trunks. I mean, his characterisation was on point and in line with what we had seen so far and could expect given the situation, so no problems there, I didn't like his appearance/character design at all. Starting with the blue hair and then him looking too young (from the last time we saw him in the manga). He looked off and a lot of times really bad, I think because his design sheet was bad too.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The only way Super would ruin characters is if all the original material pre-Super was purged from existence so the answers is and always will be no.

[MajinMan]

I hate the fact that people think Super has "ruined" characters. As many people have already said, as long as the original manga is a thing, then it is impossible for Super to ruin anything for the entire franchise. If you really, really hate Super, then disregard it completely. Nobody is forcing you to accept it as "canon."

[Israelite Wolfman]

The "ruined" characters (or better... wasted?) are those that now we are sure they will do nothing and doesn't have more sense to exist, 'cause the plot created that limit.
Yamcha and Chiaotzu for uncanny power level gap.

1000% THIS COMMENT like the 1000 Frieza FODDERS army Toriyama was too lazy to write these two more characters to fight against in Resurrection 'F' movie (and Dragon Ball Super being TOO DAMN LAZY to fix his flaws with the arc despite being able to). The FRANCHISE only made it to the Frieza Saga where SSJ popped out of Toriyama's head (due to ink saving method) thanks to the very same Human Z-Fighters they later neglected.

[SansrivaaL]

I wouldnt say RUINED but I dont like how Vegeta's been lately, for Gods sake this is a shonen fighting manga, why the fuck would we care about the fighters being a good father/husband/friend or any of that shit. Vegeta was ruthless/cold blooded/wasnt this stuck up with Bulma, but now.... holy hell, the prince has hit rock bottom.
I also dont like how they treated Future Trunks, the guy is like... a gary stu or somesort, God knows how he was able to keep up with all the fights being only at SSJ2-3 at best level and randomly gets a huge ass boost SSJRageBS and was even given the chance to deal a final blow to Zamasu (well not exactly final, but you get my point)
A minor nitpick would be Nozawa's kiddie tone voice with Goku, like... cool it down with the tone, its cringey (at least for me)

[The gr]

Honestly, it ruined Vegeta for me. Not because of any particular way he's been characterised, but by the fact that his prominence in the story is making me realise they're never going to let his character move on if there's even the slight chance that would mean he wouldn't be as important to the story anymore. He's just going to be Goku's rival until the end of time.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "ruin", but man do I miss Vegeta. I miss hotblooded rival Vegeta so damn much. He was ridiculous, but he was so much fun to watch in action. I don't like where they've been steering him in Super as of late. VegeBul is so boring to me. "Nervous anxiety around Beerus" Vegeta is tiring by this point. Vegeta isn't even my favorite, but watching him fade into the background breaks my heart in a way where I get where Gohan and Piccolo fans are coming from in not wanting a character they like to be sidelined in that way.

All of this, I agree Vegeta is not that interesting anymore but hey he is at least a good warm-up in the DBS anime and manga and he has a few great character moment but that's it

[kinisking]

Yes, I absolutely hate Goku's incarnation in Super.

Other character I have mixed feelings about is Future Trunks. I mean, his characterisation was on point and in line with what we had seen so far and could expect given the situation, so no problems there, I didn't like his appearance/character design at all. Starting with the blue hair and then him looking too young (from the last time we saw him in the manga). He looked off and a lot of times really bad, I think because his design sheet was bad too.

I agree with this. It was hard for me to really get the feeling Future Trunks was back. He looked so different.

[sintzu]

In Z Goku would be my favorite character during certain parts while in Super I just want him to go away most of the time.

Gohan was and piccolo were fully developed main characters in Z while they've been reduced to nearly nothing in Super so far.

Goten and Trunks are just background ink at this point, everything that was done with them in the Buu arc has been completely thrown out.

Future Trunks was handled pretty well, he did more than he should've been able to but I'd take that over him being another Gohan.

Vegeta is pretty much the only one holding this show together for me at this point.

[precita]

Only big ones would be Videl, who just lost her tomboyish spark and is too nice and generic, but she's not that big a deal. Others would be kid Trunks and especially Goten, not because they're bad, but because they don't do anything with them anymore.

Goku is fine. Vegeta is developed even more than he was in the Buu arc. Gohan is basically where he always was as an adult. Those aren't big deals.

[Freeza9000]

Honestly, moments like Vegeta's interaction with Cabba, motivating him to become even stronger (even telling him to surpass him lol), and teaching Cabba how to unlock SSJ prevents Vegeta from being "ruined" imo.

[HybridSaiyan]

Honestly, moments like Vegeta's interaction with Cabba, motivating him to become even stronger (even telling him to surpass him lol), and teaching Cabba how to unlock SSJ prevents Vegeta from being "ruined" imo.

I still think Cabba going SSJ was an asspull. He never even heard of the transformation before, the rule in Super...if you get angry you get a power up. Just that it doesn't apply to Gohan anymore. It took Gohan awhile before he became a SSJ in the HBTC, and each transformation had a purpose.

Honestly, Cabba just pulled a Goten / Trunks.

[Freeza9000]

Honestly, moments like Vegeta's interaction with Cabba, motivating him to become even stronger (even telling him to surpass him lol), and teaching Cabba how to unlock SSJ prevents Vegeta from being "ruined" imo.

I still think Cabba going SSJ was an asspull. He never even heard of the transformation before, the rule in Super...if you get angry you get a power up. Just that it doesn't apply to Gohan anymore. It took Gohan awhile before he became a SSJ in the HBTC, and each transformation had a purpose.

Honestly, Cabba just pulled a Goten / Trunks.

Just as Goku never knew how to become a SSJ yet became one due to immense rage.

[Grimlock]

I still think Cabba going SSJ was an asspull. He never even heard of the transformation before, the rule in Super...if you get angry you get a power up. Just that it doesn't apply to Gohan anymore. It took Gohan awhile before he became a SSJ in the HBTC, and each transformation had a purpose.

Honestly, Cabba just pulled a Goten / Trunks.

While I agree that in Dragon Ball Super everyone just needs to get angry to magically get stronger, that was a concept established way before Dragon Ball Super. In order to unlock Super Saiyan, two things are required:

1- Get angry.
2- A certain level of power.

Cabba already had the second requirement, but having it is not enough to fully reach what it takes to become Super Saiyan, which is the first requirement. That's why Cabba achieving it occured in an acceptable way but not Goten and Trunks. They both didn't pass through a strong emotion and their power level are inexplicably high. Even Gohan didn't have that much power back in Saiyans, Freeza and in the beginning of Cell sagas.

[DBZAOTA482]

I said it once and I'll say it again...

Everyone who isn't Vegeta, Bulma, Krillin, #18, and the kids are either flanderized archetypes (Goku, Chi-Chi, Mr. Boo) or shells of their former shelves (Gohan, Videl). I do like most of the new characters though...

[TheMikado]

Honestly, it ruined Vegeta for me. Not because of any particular way he's been characterised, but by the fact that his prominence in the story is making me realise they're never going to let his character move on if there's even the slight chance that would mean he wouldn't be as important to the story anymore. He's just going to be Goku's rival until the end of time.

Exactly, Vegeta is my favorite character and his independence and pride was always my favorite part of his personality. Watching he hang out with Goku and train with him just ticks me off.