Neko Majin Z in US Shonen Jump!

[Sebastian (SB)]

.....I have lost respect for Viz.

Honestly, who hasn't? At least when it comes to Dragon Ball.

Don't misunderstand. I have all of the Dragon Ball manga from Viz. I understand how stupid it was for their name changes, particularly Mr. Satan's name change. I still ended up collecting them all, if not for the sake of completing my collection.

[Thanos6]

The name changes don't bother me as much as the censorship they reverted to not long after Cell popped up. "Inferno Blast," censoring the middle fingers, 17's gun, the guns those killers from the Buu saga used...

[Duo]

I think what Viz did utterly pales compared to FUNimation's dub of the series, but it's still really annoying to have that crap hit in Volume 15. I'm just glad I'm able to keep track of all the changes so that I don't follow their errors as some sort of fact. It's still the only way to read the Manga in English and it could be many, many times worse, especially considering nearly all of Dragonball and over half of Z escaped this stuff. Not sure why Muscle Tower had all those weird changes.

Seems like only Steven J Simmons can get these things right.

[Tsukento]

Wait, why do people hate the Viz names again? I think they're pretty creative (as opposed to inventive) and make a lot more sense in comparison to words that don't have English equivalents—how does one explain the "tto" in "Vegetto," without a discourse in the Japanese language, anyway? And "Djinn" is close to Majin in both sound and meaning. What's the big deal?

Except that his name is NOT Vegerot in ANY language. Just because they can't explain the "tto" doesn't mean they can't use it. Look at FUNi's bastardized way of spelling Vegetto. They spelled it as Vegito. Where did the I come from? No one really knows.

And while Djinn works for the magical part of Majin Boo and Bibidi/Babidi, but it doesn't work when every has M's on their foreheads and on Boo's belt. Not to mention, the term "Majin" also translates to basically an evil person. Which Boo was basically and everyone who was posessed by Babidi.

It's creative, yes, but shouldn't be used when they clearly aren't supposed to be. Viz already took enough liberties in saying Mr. Satan's real name was Hercule and that Mr. Satan was a stage name for when he was supposedly a pro-wrestler (which NEVER happened).

[Acid_Reign]

Except that his name is NOT Vegerot in ANY language. Just because they can't explain the "tto" doesn't mean they can't use it. Look at FUNi's bastardized way of spelling Vegetto. They spelled it as Vegito. Where did the I come from? No one really knows.

Well, the "i" most likely came from "Bejitto," almost as if FUNimation decided to base their spellings on the Romaji rather than the actual puns half-way through... which makes absolutely no sense; I'm not really in support of that any more than I am "Vegetto" (unless Goku's Saiyan name were "Kakarotto" in the dub, which frankly I think would be a little stupid, because there's no need for it in English. The "tto" is only in place because that's how "carrot" is represented using Japanese phonemes).

But the essence of fusion characters' names in DBZ is that they are a combination of both parties involved. So if it's Vegeta + Kakarrot, then "Vegerot" only makes sense. If it were Baseball + Bat, I wouldn't expect "Baseballbatto."

And while Djinn works for the magical part of Majin Boo and Bibidi/Babidi, but it doesn't work when every has M's on their foreheads and on Boo's belt.

Yeah, I agree—although there are those who seem to think the "M" doesn't necessarily stand for "Majin"—but it's either leave it as-is or edit every single appearance of the logo to a "D." Even if they wanted to go to all that trouble, which choice would have received more fan outcry?

Not to mention, the term "Majin" also translates to basically an evil person. Which Boo was basically and everyone who was posessed by Babidi.

It'd be quite a task for the translators I'm sure if they had to find words in English that appropriately represented every possible meaning one could derive from a language as ambiguous as Japanese; certainly from a series that doesn't offer definitive explanations for everything.

They had to make a choice, and they settled on a word that they thought conveyed the idea the best. I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since choosing "Majin" turns it into a fictitious word rather than one with meaning.

It's creative, yes, but shouldn't be used when they clearly aren't supposed to be. Viz already took enough liberties in saying Mr. Satan's real name was Mr. Satan and that Mr. Satan was a stage name for when he was supposedly a pro-wrestler (which NEVER happened).

Define "clearly aren't supposed to be." If their job is translation, then translation is what they should do. Also, I don't know what you're trying to say with all the wordfilters Mike has in place. If you mean Hercule, then yeah, there was no need for that. I wouldn't group that in with the rest though, because the others don't create story elements that weren't originally there to begin with.

[Lavender Saiyan]

I haven't recieved my issue yet so I want to ask. Is the translation of NMZ5 good? In other words, is it acurate to Julian's or did Viz change stuff? I realize that Julian isn't a profesional translator, but I trust him more so than Viz at times given their reputation to alter stuff from time to time.

[desirecampbell]

They had to make a choice, and they settled on a word that they thought conveyed the idea the best. I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since choosing "Majin" turns it into a fictitious word rather than one with meaning.

Which is why English has the ability to take foriegn words and assimilate them. "Majin" doesn't translate well. So leave it as Majin. Take two goddamn sentences at the beginning (maybe you can take out the explanation about who Goku is that they have before every chapter) to define the word. Or, how about, like 'Saiyan' it's just a word whose meaning isn't pivotal to anything plot-wise.

[Acid_Reign]

Which is why English has the ability to take foriegn words and assimilate them. "Majin" doesn't translate well. So leave it as Majin. Take two goddamn sentences at the beginning (maybe you can take out the explanation about who Goku is that they have before every chapter) to define the word. Or, how about, like 'Saiyan' it's just a word whose meaning isn't pivotal to anything plot-wise.

I wouldn't have minded that either, but the problem here is that it's inconsistent. The same "jin" exists in both Majin and Saiyajin. If the latter becomes Saiyan, what does the former become? I can't think of anything that sounds correct (though there's probably a grammatical rule that could be applied here), but if anyone else can, I'd like to hear it, because that 's personally how I'd handle it.

[desirecampbell]

I wouldn't have minded that either, but the problem here is that it's inconsistent. The same "jin" exists in both Majin and Saiyajin. If the latter becomes Saiyan, what does the former become? I can't think of anything that sounds correct (though there's probably a grammatical rule that could be applied here), but if anyone else can, I'd like to hear it, because that 's personally how I'd handle it.

It could become 'Maian' but the English tongue doesn't do repeating syllables well. We tend to blend them together. Instead of pronouncing it maa en we'd probably just do maan.

Of course, since this is English, we could make it 'Mayard' or 'Maiod' or even just 'Ma'. English is stupid.

[laserkid]

I haven't recieved my issue yet so I want to ask. Is the translation of NMZ5 good? In other words, is it acurate to Julian's or did Viz change stuff? I realize that Julian isn't a profesional translator, but I trust him more so than Viz at times given their reputation to alter stuff from time to time.

It's not a bad translation, not that there was really anything to censor though.

[Tsukento]

But the essence of fusion characters' names in DBZ is that they are a combination of both parties involved. So if it's Vegeta + Kakarrot, then "Vegerot" only makes sense. If it were Baseball + Bat, I wouldn't expect "Baseballbatto."

As I said, the problem is that his name was never Vegerot anywhere else. Japan calls him Vegetto and even spells it as such. Vegerot is a completely different name. That's much different compared to translating a line differently due to being unable to work in the English language (like a joke that only the Japanese would get). Everyone else has used Vegetto (or a similar spelling). Viz was the only one to give him an actual name change. Creative or not, Vegerot is NOT his name.

It'd be quite a task for the translators I'm sure if they had to find words in English that appropriately represented every possible meaning one could derive from a language as ambiguous as Japanese; certainly from a series that doesn't offer definitive explanations for everything.

Viz has shown they can do pages in their Shonen Jump to explain Japanese terms and their meanings. They sure as hell could do it in their graphic novels. TokyoPop has done it with their own manga.

They had to make a choice, and they settled on a word that they thought conveyed the idea the best. I don't see anything wrong with that. Especially since choosing "Majin" turns it into a fictitious word rather than one with meaning.

Not really. Again, this could easily have been explained in a translation page. FUNi had no problem using Majin. Those who don't know of the origins of the word didn't seem to mind. At the point Viz reached with the manga, the anime was already finished being dubbed. So everything had already been established at that point. It seems like Viz went from going to translating the manga to just going lax on it and using their own creative changes.

Also, I don't know what you're trying to say with all the wordfilters Mike has in place. If you mean Hercule, then yeah, there was no need for that. I wouldn't group that in with the rest though, because the others don't create story elements that weren't originally there to begin with.

Yes, that is what I meant. Even then, it still counts as them changing his name to something it wasn't. Viz really gave no reason for making that change.

[Acid_Reign]

As I said, the problem is that his name was never Vegerot anywhere else. Japan calls him Vegetto and even spells it as such. Vegerot is a completely different name. That's much different compared to translating a line differently due to being unable to work in the English language (like a joke that only the Japanese would get). Everyone else has used Vegetto (or a similar spelling). Viz was the only one to give him an actual name change. Creative or not, Vegerot is NOT his name.

I don't really see how they're that much different at all. Why have such rigid standards for names, yet maintain leniency about line changes? Those, like the hard-to-translate names, could just as easily be explained on a translation page as well. I could say the same to you in that, creative or not, the replacement joke is NOT the same as the original joke. But really, if it conveys the same idea, what difference does it make?

I'm also curious as to why you aren't complaining about the lack of a "to" at the end of "Kakarrot," which is where Vegetto lends that part of his name anyway. Technically, if they follow the same set of rules, then Vegetto's name in English should be "Veget" (pronounced like "vegete").

Not really. Again, this could easily have been explained in a translation page. FUNi had no problem using Majin. Those who don't know of the origins of the word didn't seem to mind. At the point Viz reached with the manga, the anime was already finished being dubbed. So everything had already been established at that point. It seems like Viz went from going to translating the manga to just going lax on it and using their own creative changes.

So, what, Viz is supposed to follow blindly in FUNi's footsteps simply because they released their version first? The animé and the manga are two different things. Same property, sure, but different media. It'd have been nice if the two could have coordinated together to maintain a similar likeness, but they didn't. My guess is that most people are smart enough to figure out who's who on their own, though. "Lax"? At least Viz put some effort into it! Side-by-side, I'll take their name pun preservation over FUNi's whatever-the-fuck-they-did any day.

And it's fairly obvious that people who don't know the difference don't mind; reason being that they don't know the difference, so how could they mind? And even if they did, why should everyone accept a given change just because they do? You could apply the same argument in the context of the edited Broadcast version of the dub that went largely unnoticed until sites like DBZ: Uncesnored came along and let the people know what was up.

Also, to the new reader or viewer, nothing is "established." Your reasoning only applies to existing fans.

Yes, that is what I meant. Even then, it still counts as them changing his name to something it wasn't. Viz really gave no reason for making that change.

Like I said, I'm not arguing in favor of it. I'm willing to accept changes so long as they are minor and appropriately justified. I feel the "Vegerot" case is just that. There is nothing about the English version or language to warrant including the extra consonant and vowel at the end of such characters' names. Look at Sonic the Hedgehog. Should we be calling him "Sonikku"? It doesn't make any sense.