Tales from the Daizenshuu

[Herms]

Herms, did that guide happen to reveal the names of those battle robots that appreaed in the sixth DBZ movie? They were called the "Cyclopean Guard" in Funimation's dub of Cooler's Return? Also, are there notes on the names of location where movies takes place that wasn't revealed within the movie, for example the city that No.14 and No.15 appeared.

Yeah, I've just been full of question lately.

Daizenshuu 6 labels the character models for Cooler's robots as simply "robot soldiers". However, they are listed in Daizenshuu 7's character guide as "battle robots".

According to Daizenshuu 6's summary of DBZ movie 6, Goku and company are shopping in West City when #14 and #15 attack.

[Kikoha Hater]

Herms you kick major ass! Thank you!

EDIT: I do have to admit that it those kinda frienghten me that there are some mistranslated attacks on that page.

[Toriyama Boss]

Wow Herms that was all crazy info you just gave out, THANKS !!!

If you don't mind me asking, what does Daizenshuu 7 say about the Super Saiya-jin stages 1-3?
I wouldn't know where to find it, maybe they are in Goku's profile?

[Herms]

OK, more belated answers:

Hey there... I was wondering something, what does it say about Gyumao? His he human? Because adding the fact that he is a giant to is name (Demon Ox King), it makes me think that he is in fact at least half demon, wich would explain Chichi's strenght, and to an extent Gohan's crazy potential.

His bio in Daiz 7 says that he was a man so fearsome that he was called a demon king. So the 'demon' part of Demon Ox King is basically just part of his title; he's just a plain old human (his bio also describes his accent as being unbelievibly horrible). Personally, I've always wondered if the reason Gyuumaou is so tall is that he's really a One Piece character that ended up in the wrong manga.

Hey would you minded telling me what Daizenshuu 4 says about Chaozu and Lunch unique abilities.

Not much; it pretty much just describes them. For Chaozu it says that he has the power to stop his oppenent's movement and change the numbers on the tournament's lottery tickets. For Lunch it says that she changes personalities between being a good person and being a bad person every time she sneezes.

I have a question. Does it say anywhere in #6 or #7 whether Dr. Cochin, from the World's Strongest, is a cyborg or a full android?

Sailorspazz already got this, but just to follow up both Daizenshuu 6 and 7 refer to Cochin as simply a robot.

[Kikoha Hater]

Herms would mind answering my last barrage question concerning attacks/techniques. I guess you can say this is the finale of my attack questions.

I believe that Goku should be listed as a user of the “Renzoku Kikoha” attack or Nikki, Ginger, and Sansho aren’t listed under the Kyodaika form technique. Is there a reason why Angira and Janemba weren’t listed as user to the “Nobiru Shita” technique, or Piccolo being listed with the Bakurikimaha.

In the attack guide do they mention the draw back from Kuririn and Piccolo’s use of the “Bushin” technique, like having to divide their power among the clones or where their clones all equal in power.

What is the deal with these “others” that the attack guide supposedly lists under as users of the “Kienzan”? I can recall Vegeta, Goku, 18 and even Amondo performing similar attacks. I believe that Goku, Vegeta, and Amondo version could just be unrefined disk shaped kihohas and that #18 to be the real thing, hopefully I’m wrong on this one.

Did the attack guide reveal any info on Reacoome’s ultimate attack and Jheese and Butta Purple Comet Zed Crash since neither of them were given the chance to fully execute them?

How does the guide describe Piccolo’s “Kizuato no Chiyu” since the Ultimate DBZ Information doesn’t say, I can’t recall him doing anything noteworthy that hasn’t already been covered in the guide so far. Also what is the description for Super Boo’s “Ijigen Kougeki”?

Did the attack guide write down the technique that Janemba used to clone Goku as “Mini Goku” or “Mini Son Goku”?

Is it possible that “Gatai Kousen” wasn’t referring to the entirety of Goku and Piccolo’s assault on Garlic Jr. and more likely referring to combined ki blast at the end? I suspect this because the word “kosen” can translate to “beam” and gattai could translate to “combine”.

And lastly were there any other techniques that were not listed or mistranslated on Greg Werner’s site. Thanks again for putting up with my long winded question Herms.

[Herms]

OK, it took me awhile, but I got all your questions answered, Kikoha Hater. I would have replied sooner, but I've been working on a special project that I'll get to at the end.

The Special Attack Index, a list in Daiz 7 that shows every character who ever used a special technique and which ones they used, does only lists Goku as using the regular kikouha, and none of its variations. I can't remember Goku ever using a renzoku kikouha, but if he did then I guess the daizenshuu staff forgot about it. There are a few mistakes like that in the Special Attack Index. None of Garlick Jr.'s henchmen from DBZ movie 1 are listed as having the kyodaika (giant transformation). I guess their transformations weren't big enough to count or something.

(for those of you not as into Dragon Ball techniques as Kikoha Hater, “kikouha” is the Japanese word used for what American fans generally call a “ki blast”. It roughly translates as "ki wave". "Renzoku" means "continuous", and often figures in attack names)

As for why Angira and Janenba don't have nobiru shita: well, I don't see why either of them would. “Nobiru shita” means “stretching tongue”, and I don't remember either of them doing such a thing. Perhaps you're confusing it with nobiru ude (stretching arms)? Angira did stretch his arms if I'm remembering the movie correctly, but Janenba really just used portals to give his arms and legs more range (again, if I'm remembering right). Angira isn't listed at all in the the Special Attack Index, which is somewhat odd, because in his Character Dictionary bio it lists under the technique category that he has the ability to move freely through the earth and can fire a powerful energy bullet from his mouth. The entire daizenshuu seems to be forgetting his ability to stretch his arms, unless he never did that at all and I'm just crazy.

Bakurikimaha was the attack that Piccolo Daimaou used in his fight with Goku to blow up King Castle and what was left of Central City. I don't think Piccolo/Ma Junior ever used it.

The Special Attack Dictionary's entry for bunshin (not bushin)/split-body only says who uses it (Piccolo, Kuririn and Medamatcha) and when. It doesn't say anything specific about the mechanics of the attacks, and doesn't even describe it (apparently they thought that the name was descriptive enough).

According to the Special Attack Index, the following people use the kienzan: Goku, Kuririn (normal and continuous), #17, Vegeta, Cell, and Freeza (Freeza is listed as using the “pursuing kienzan”). I'd assume that listing kienzan under #17's attacks was a mistake and that it should have been under #18. For Cell it says that he uses it in the CG Hyper Anime Dragon Ball, but it's not entirely clear on whether that's the only time he uses it. In the Special Attack Dictionary for kienzan, it notes that Vegeta uses a technique that resemble the kienzan. This technique was in fact the same technique as the kienzan, it says, only Vegeta never named it. Amond doesn't seem to have used the kienzan, but apparently he repelled Kuririn's kienzan when they fought by spinning rapidly.

I'm not sure what “reacoome's ultimate attack” refers to. Is that the name of the attack or just the description? If it's the name, then there's no such attack listed in the index. If it's just a description, then do you mean the attack that Recoome was trying to use when Goku finally elbowed him? That attack was “Recoome Ultra Fighting-*don*”, “*don* being the elbow. It's not listed in the index either.

Purple Comet Z(etto) Crash is described in the Special Attack Dictionary as a more powerful version of Jeese and Butta's Purple Comet Crash, both of which they only used in the anime. Jeese's red aura and Butta's blue aura merge to create a purple aura and become a giant sphere. At this point Tenshinhan sends them flying. Presumably it would have done something similar to the regular Purple Comet Crash.

Piccolo's “kizuato no chiyu” (“scar healing”) is the technique that Piccolo uses to heal the scar on his neck that he got from being bitten by the Mazoku-ified humans during the Garlick Jr. filler arc.

There's no entry for “ijigen kougeki”, but Buu does have a “ijigen kuukan”, which is probably what you're looking for. This means “other dimension space”, and it's a technique Buu uses only in the anime, during his fight with Vegetto. The space around Buu warps, and if this warped space were to spread, the universe would be wiped out. The daizenshuu speculates that when Buu escaped from the Room of Time and Spirits he was using something similar to this.

Janenba's weird attack where he creates a tiny version of Goku is called “mini-Goku”. They use the word English word “mini”, spelled in katakana, even in the Japanese. “Goku” is spelled the same as always.

“Gattai kousen” (“combined beam”) is in fact the beam that Piccolo and Goku hit Garlick Jr. with in DBZ movie 1. As you said, 'kousen' means beam, so the part where Piccolo and Goku are just punching and kicking him isn't part of this attack.

As for other omissions, mistranslations, or mistakes on Greg Werner's site...well, I'm halfway through translating the Special Attack Index (not the Special Attack Dictionary, which is what Werner's Fist of the Dragon Page is an adaptation of), so I guess that might be able to serve as a cross-reference. I just need to make sure I don't make any mistakes...

[Kikoha Hater]

Once again I have to thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

Sorry the “Ijigen Kogeki” and “Nobiru Shita” was a mistake on my part, odd that they wouldn’t list Angira, but remember Janemba performing something like that when he grabs Vegeta by the neck and ramming him into jelly beams in the sky before tossing him into those piles of needles but if he’s not listed then all well.

My confusion over Goku performing the Renzoku Kikoha stems from his fight with Cell, near the end of their bout Goku started firing a barrage of ki blast until Cell rebelled and nullified it with a giant transparent barrier.

I do have some screenshots of Amondo performing something similar to the Kienzan, although it had an orange color scheme if you’re interested.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o17/ ... around.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o17/ ... andisc.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o17/ ... wndisc.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o17/ ... lashes.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o17/ ... edback.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o17/ ... kewise.jpg

[Drunken Master]

Is someone actually translating the Jap version of the daiz? (For those who want to complain about me using "Jap", they can just go to HFIL, and prevent further joint arthritis. It's an abbreviation, not a racial slur. Context people).

[Herms]

Is someone actually translating the Jap version of the daiz? (For those who want to complain about me using "Jap", they can just go to HFIL, and prevent further joint arthritis. It's an abbreviation, not a racial slur. Context people).

Killer Cory currently has a project going to translate all of Daizenshuu 1, which should be fairly easy considering it's by far the least text-heavy daizenshuu. I'm in the middle of translating a few things from Daizenshuu 7 myself, and am thinking about translating the whole thing. That would take awhile, though.

...

...

...I can't just let it go...

Wow, this is a bad day for the forums, "Jap"-wise. Anyway, it is a racist slur, and you can't just wish away the word's history just because you happen to find it a convenient shorthand. If you really have that much trouble writing out the entire word, then, well...actually, if you find it too difficult to type an eight-letter word, how do you even find the strength to post consistently?

[SonEric84]

I understand the dislike for the whole "Jap." term, but I've even seen Japanese sellers on Ebay use it on their listings for Japanese games....so maybe it's not as offensive as you think if it's used as an abbreviation? Don't get me wrong, I love/respect Japan and Japanese culture, and I don't use that term even to abbreviate, but maybe there's no need for debate over this..?

[FindKenshi]

I'm always careful to use "JPN" whenever I can, personally.

[SonEric84]

I just write it out, I mean, it's not that hard.

[Toriyama Boss]

Well "Jap" would be kind of offensive. Why not just spell the entire word?

Also Herms what does it say about the Super Saiya-jins in Daizenshuu 7?

[FindKenshi]

LOL!! What do the Daizenshuu say about the power of Kid Buu and Super Buu? Hah, ok ok.. I know. but still, I can dream, right?

[Herms]

Also Herms what does it say about the Super Saiya-jins in Daizenshuu 7?

The various forms of Super Saiyan are featured in the Special Attack Dictionary. The main entry is simply for Super Saiyan, with every higher form being listed as a varient of it. This is similiar to how it list attacks such as the Super Kamehameha and the Teleporting Kamehameha, which are put with the entry for regular Kamehameha. Pseudo-Super Saiyan is listed on it's on, though. Interestingly, Broli is only listed as being a regular Super Saiyan, while Daizenshuu 6 refered to his big giant huge form as Legendary Super Saiyan.

The entries for the regular Super Saiyan stages appears on pp.144-145, while Pseudo Super Saiyan is on p.134. Having entirely too much free time on my hands over my Christmas break, I have translated them out in full.

Super Saiyan
First appears: chapter 317
Category: ability
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Son Goten, Vegeta, Trunks, Gotenks, Vegetto, Broli
Special features: The ultimate Saiyan warrior that surpasses the limits of a regular Saiyan. Originally, the existence of this form outside of legend was doubted even among Saiyans. In reality, any Saiyan that posses a high battle power above the standard level is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan. Possessing a calm heart, sensing extreme danger, feeling strong anger or sadness, or a danger to the Saiyan race itself seem to be states that are the essential key to transforming. In addition to the outward signs of the transformation such as an aura, golden hair that stands straight up, and sharp, hawk-like eyes with emerald-green pupils, a battle power 50 times that of normal are proof of the legendary mightiest warrior.
Anime: In the anime, the Super Saiyan's distinctive golden aura was represented with special effects known as brush processing and permeation light (Daiezenshuu 5, p.104)*. The Legendary Super Saiyan Broli debuted in <Movie 8>** and appeared in 3 movies. Perhaps this instict-driven form is the true Super Saiyan, that the legend says will “Love destruction and slaughter” (Daizenshuu 6, p.106).

-Second Grade
First appears: chpater 377
People: Son Goku, Trunks, Vegeta
Special features: A power-up where every nerve is concentrated, sending ki throughout the body and inflating the muscles. This is capable of raising both power and speed much higher than a Super saiyan.

-Third Grade
First appears: chapter 386
People: Son Goku, Trunks
Special features: This form is capable of drawing immense power, inflating muscles to the limit. However, this kills speed and movement becomes sluggish; on top of that, the burden on the body is also great.

-2
First appears: chapter 408
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta, Gotenks
Special features: This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training.

-3
First appears: chapter 474
People: Son Goku, Gotenks
Special features: The strongest Saiyan form, which draws the hidden power of a Saiyan out to its limits. However, due to the large energy consumption of this form, outside of the afterlife one can only stay transformed for a limited amount of time

Pseudo Super Saiyan
People: Son Goku
Special features: A state that Goku transformed into in the movie “Super Saiyan Son Goku”. It's similar to Super Saiyan in that the entire body is wrapped in an aura, but the hair is not completely golden. Also, the eyes become white, as if he had lost consciousness. It looks as if Goku's anger at being cornered by his enemy Slugg overran and made him like a Super Saiyan.

*The original Japanese for these terms are ブラシ処理 and 透過光. I know virtually nothing about animation, so I don't know the English terms for these techniques.
**OK, in the original they have the Japanese title for the movie here, but my translation of it was so long and convoluted that I thought this would be easier.

[MajinVejitaXV]

This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training

Oh really? I'm glad to see an official guide, even if not infalible, state that Vegeta learned the form from training and not Babidi's sorcery.

-Corey

[desirecampbell]

This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training

Oh really? I'm glad to see an official guide, even if not infalible, state that Vegeta learned the form from training and not Babidi's sorcery.
-Corey

Not to sound pessimistic, but (just so there's no more debate) could we get A) a scan of the page, and B) a second translation.

[Herms]

Not to sound pessimistic, but (just so there's no more debate) could we get A) a scan of the page, and B) a second translation.

I don't have a scanner, so I can't help with A. The sentence is on p.145 of Daizenshuu 7, underneath a picture of USSJ2 Trunks and to the right of a picture of SSJ2 Gohan.

As for a second translation, the original Japanese is: 悟飯はセルの 残虐な行動に怒りが爆発し自然 に 変身、悟空 とベジータ は厳しい修行により会得した 。

[Toriyama Boss]

Also Herms what does it say about the Super Saiya-jins in Daizenshuu 7?

The various forms of Super Saiyan are featured in the Special Attack Dictionary. The main entry is simply for Super Saiyan, with every higher form being listed as a varient of it. This is similiar to how it list attacks such as the Super Kamehameha and the Teleporting Kamehameha, which are put with the entry for regular Kamehameha. Pseudo-Super Saiyan is listed on it's on, though. Interestingly, Broli is only listed as being a regular Super Saiyan, while Daizenshuu 6 refered to his big giant huge form as Legendary Super Saiyan.

The entries for the regular Super Saiyan stages appears on pp.144-145, while Pseudo Super Saiyan is on p.134. Having entirely too much free time on my hands over my Christmas break, I have translated them out in full.

Super Saiyan
First appears: chapter 317
Category: ability
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Son Goten, Vegeta, Trunks, Gotenks, Vegetto, Broli
Special features: The ultimate Saiyan warrior that surpasses the limits of a regular Saiyan. Originally, the existence of this form outside of legend was doubted even among Saiyans. In reality, any Saiyan that posses a high battle power above the standard level is capable of becoming a Super Saiyan. Possessing a calm heart, sensing extreme danger, feeling strong anger or sadness, or a danger to the Saiyan race itself seem to be states that are the essential key to transforming. In addition to the outward signs of the transformation such as an aura, golden hair that stands straight up, and sharp, hawk-like eyes with emerald-green pupils, a battle power 50 times that of normal are proof of the legendary mightiest warrior.
Anime: In the anime, the Super Saiyan's distinctive golden aura was represented with special effects known as brush processing and permeation light (Daiezenshuu 5, p.104)*. The Legendary Super Saiyan Broli debuted in <Movie 8>** and appeared in 3 movies. Perhaps this instict-driven form is the true Super Saiyan, that the legend says will “Love destruction and slaughter” (Daizenshuu 6, p.106).

-Second Grade
First appears: chpater 377
People: Son Goku, Trunks, Vegeta
Special features: A power-up where every nerve is concentrated, sending ki throughout the body and inflating the muscles. This is capable of raising both power and speed much higher than a Super saiyan.

-Third Grade
First appears: chapter 386
People: Son Goku, Trunks
Special features: This form is capable of drawing immense power, inflating muscles to the limit. However, this kills speed and movement becomes sluggish; on top of that, the burden on the body is also great.

-2
First appears: chapter 408
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta, Gotenks
Special features: This form has power that surpasses Super Saiyan in all ways. Gohan naturally transformed into this form from his anger at Cell's brutal actions, while Goku and Vegeta learned it from harsh training.

-3
First appears: chapter 474
People: Son Goku, Gotenks
Special features: The strongest Saiyan form, which draws the hidden power of a Saiyan out to its limits. However, due to the large energy consumption of this form, outside of the afterlife one can only stay transformed for a limited amount of time

Pseudo Super Saiyan
People: Son Goku
Special features: A state that Goku transformed into in the movie “Super Saiyan Son Goku”. It's similar to Super Saiyan in that the entire body is wrapped in an aura, but the hair is not completely golden. Also, the eyes become white, as if he had lost consciousness. It looks as if Goku's anger at being cornered by his enemy Slugg overran and made him like a Super Saiyan.

*The original Japanese for these terms are ブラシ処理 and 透過光. I know virtually nothing about animation, so I don't know the English terms for these techniques.
**OK, in the original they have the Japanese title for the movie here, but my translation of it was so long and convoluted that I thought this would be easier.

Wow, THANK YOU HERMS YOU ARE THE BOSS!

I am glad to read that Vegeta in fact DID attain Super Saiya-jin through training and not through Babidi's magic!
When it states "Second Grade" is it referring to "Full-power Super Saiya-jin?"
Oh Herms, you said that various attacks such as "Super Kamehameha" were listed, does it ever state how POWERFUL these attacks (or the characters) are?

[Herms]

When it states "Second Grade" is it referring to "Full-power Super Saiya-jin?"

It's the really muscular form used by Vegeta after his training in the Room and Spirits and Time, when he calls himself “Super Vegeta”. Trunks and Goku also use it briefly. The Japanese terms for it and the even more muscular form that Trunks uses to fight Cell with are 弟二段階 & 弟三段階, which can be translated a number of ways. Interestingly, Super Saiyan Full Power isn't mentioned at all in the entry for Super Saiyan, or anywhere else in Daizenshuu 7 that I can think of.

Oh Herms, you said that various attacks such as "Super Kamehameha" were listed, does it ever state how POWERFUL these attacks (or the characters) are?

Sort of. There's generally never anything specific. The Super Kamehameha is described as being “a Kamehameha powered up from the the training with Kami-sama in the Heavenly Realm. It has enough power to repel Piccolo's powerful Makousen.” That entry is pretty typical of how the daizenshuu deal with issues of power. Everything is generally vague (“greatly effective”, “extremely powerful”, “strong”); when an attacks power is described specifically, it's with examples from the series. For instance, Jacky Chun's Kamehameha Max Power is described as having enough power to destroy the moon, which of course it does at the 21st Tenka-ichi Budoukai. With characters it's the same.

Some more on the Kamehameha (from D7 p.131): it's effect changes with the strength of the users ki. The reason Goku was able to learn it so quickly might be because of ki training he received from Grandpa Gohan, or from his natural instincts as a Saiyan. Kame Sen'nin needs to go into his buff form in order to perform his Kamehameha Max Power; without the big muscles he can't perform it.