Tales from the Daizenshuu

[Toriyama Boss]

When it states "Second Grade" is it referring to "Full-power Super Saiya-jin?"

It's the really muscular form used by Vegeta after his training in the Room and Spirits and Time, when he calls himself “Super Vegeta”. Trunks and Goku also use it briefly. The Japanese terms for it and the even more muscular form that Trunks uses to fight Cell with are 弟二段階 & 弟三段階, which can be translated a number of ways. Interestingly, Super Saiyan Full Power isn't mentioned at all in the entry for Super Saiyan, or anywhere else in Daizenshuu 7 that I can think of.

Oh Herms, you said that various attacks such as "Super Kamehameha" were listed, does it ever state how POWERFUL these attacks (or the characters) are?

Sort of. There's generally never anything specific. The Super Kamehameha is described as being “a Kamehameha powered up from the the training with Kami-sama in the Heavenly Realm. It has enough power to repel Piccolo's powerful Makousen.” That entry is pretty typical of how the daizenshuu deal with issues of power. Everything is generally vague (“greatly effective”, “extremely powerful”, “strong”); when an attacks power is described specifically, it's with examples from the series. For instance, Jacky Chun's Kamehameha Max Power is described as having enough power to destroy the moon, which of course it does at the 21st Tenka-ichi Budoukai. With characters it's the same.

Some more on the Kamehameha (from D7 p.131): it's effect changes with the strength of the users ki. The reason Goku was able to learn it so quickly might be because of ki training he received from Grandpa Gohan, or from his natural instincts as a Saiyan. Kame Sen'nin needs to go into his buff form in order to perform his Kamehameha Max Power; without the big muscles he can't perform it.

One last request Herms, It's concerning "Kiri's." I read somewhere (on this site as a matter of fact) in the french Daizneshuu 7 it stated that "20-30 Kiris are required to blow up 2 small planets." Your entry of the Kiri was something different. Do you mind re-checking that and giving me the entry again?

THANK YOU HERMS!!

[VegettoEX]

I... just... don't know how much more I can take of this...

One last request Herms, It's concerning "Kiri's." I read somewhere (on this site as a matter of fact) in the french Daizneshuu 7 it stated that "20-30 Kiris are required to blow up 2 small planets." Your entry of the Kiri was something different. Do you mind re-checking that and giving me the entry again?

THANK YOU HERMS!!

[Jerseymilk]

What is is lately with all these people making multiple accounts? Are they really that stupid to think they can pull it off? -_-

[Gyt Kaliba]

LOL, that's hilarious. Is that something that only the VegettoEX can see, or can we see it too? I'd like to see stuff like that on the FUNi Forums, cuz I swear there's a guy there who has been banned 6 times and keeps coming back.

Who has the time to have multiple accounts anyway? I wish I had that much free time.

[Kikoha Hater]

Am I the only one who’s annoyed that they bother to list Gotenks under as a user of the “Super Saiyan 2” form? I know he has access to it seeing how he skipped it and ascended straight to Super Saiyan 3. If that the case why didn’t they put Vegeta’s name under the “Super Saiyan 3rd Grade” form seeing as how he could, just that he was the wiser.

[desirecampbell]

Am I the only one who’s annoyed that they bother to list Gotenks under as a user of the “Super Saiyan 2” form? I know he has access to it seeing how he skipped it and ascended straight to Super Saiyan 3. If that the case why didn’t they put Vegeta’s name under the “Super Saiyan 3rd Grade” form seeing as how he could, just that he was the wiser.

Well this shows that he didn't skip it. He achieved SSj2, and then moved on to SSj3.

[Kikoha Hater]

What I mean is that he transformed straight from a Super Saiyan 1 to 3, he was never shown in a Super Saiyan 2 state (unless I missed something), which is why I’m a little puzzled that he’s eveb listed as user of the technique/transformation. Just to make it clear, I know he could’ve changed into a Super Saiyan 2, it just that there was no need for him to do it since it was obsolete in terms of raw power when compared to Super Saiyan 3, which was what he needed in order to escape The Room of Spirit and Time.

I’ve been observing the clip of Gotenks transformation and I’ve witnessed no in-between Super Saiyan 2 transformation like the one Goku undergoes in GT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHLBNY5AHm0

[Tyro]

What I mean is that he transformed straight from a Super Saiyan 1 to 3, he was never shown in a Super Saiyan 2 state (unless I missed something)

Edit: Size reduced so as to not stretch the page.

[Kikoha Hater]

Ok then, never mind.

[SonEric84]

I... just... don't know how much more I can take of this...

One last request Herms, It's concerning "Kiri's." I read somewhere (on this site as a matter of fact) in the french Daizneshuu 7 it stated that "20-30 Kiris are required to blow up 2 small planets." Your entry of the Kiri was something different. Do you mind re-checking that and giving me the entry again?

THANK YOU HERMS!!

Now that I re-read that post, it just screams Phenomenol. I feel your pain, people are stupid. These translations are pretty sweet though..

[Toriyama Boss]

Ok yes, I am Phenomenol, I just didn't want to cause any trouble like I did with my last account and I just wanted to apologize for my actions as Phenomenol. It is different now, as you can see I haven't caused any trouble at all during my 40 posts as Toriyama Boss. I just want to discuss Dragonball safely without any venom spewing out of everyone's mouth. Can everyone except my apologies and lets move on if it is possible at all?

Thank you.

Hey again Herms

Did the Daizenshuu ever name Piccolo's attack that he used on radditz...?
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9696 ... i12bh0.jpg

Is it the same attack that Piccolo used to do this........?
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3787/dbz052hi9.jpg

Thank you.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Anyone else find it oddly amusing that he just posted and did nothing to explain himself or whatever? Is my sense of humor that odd, or is it amusing in a way.

[SonEric84]

Anyone else find it oddly amusing that he just posted and did nothing to explain himself or whatever? Is my sense of humor that odd, or is it amusing in a way.

It's pretty funny, but he just apologized so hopefully everyone will be mature about it and move on. Although, Mike did ban him so maybe it wasn't very wise to just come back without e-mailing him first.

[Gyt Kaliba]

The apology was not there when I posted, so I apologize for bringing it up. In retrospect, I wasn't here for any of his shennanigans from the past, so I really wouldn't know. I'll say nothing more on it then.

[SonEric84]

The apology was not there when I posted, so I apologize for bringing it up. In retrospect, I wasn't here for any of his shennanigans from the past, so I really wouldn't know. I'll say nothing more on it then.

lol I figured that's what happened.

[FindKenshi]

So I take it none of the Daizenshuu discuss the power of the Buu forms, or at least specify if absorbing South Kaioshin made Buu grow stronger, or if it had the same effect as Dai Kaioshin?

[Herms]

So I take it none of the Daizenshuu discuss the power of the Buu forms, or at least specify if absorbing South Kaioshin made Buu grow stronger, or if it had the same effect as Dai Kaioshin?

Not really. There's no information on that which isn't in the manga, anyway. Possibly less, even.

It seems this thread has taken an...interesting turn. But I'm not the moderator. Just make sure there are no more shennanigans Toriyama Boss, or I won't answer your questions.

OK, the last thing on kiri: the line about 200-300 kiri being enough to destroy 1-2 planets isn't in the manga. There, after Babidi measure's Goku's energy and finds it to be 3,000 kiri, Dabra merely says that humans shouldn't be able to have that much power. However, it is in the corresponding episode, 223. Dabra says it there around the same time. This piece of information is included in the entry on kiri in Daizenshuu 7's term dictionary. Rechecking this entry, I don't find any errors in the translation of it I provided earlier. If the Glenat's French translation of Daizenshuu 7 says anything different, then it's either a mistranslation or an intentional change.

I'm pretty sure the attack Piccolo is shown doing in each of those scans is just a generic ki blast.

Now then, as of this Christmas I am now the proud owner of Daizenshuu 10. I'll be doing a write-up of it, just like I did 1-7. Other things from the daizenshuu I plan on doing before the end of my Christmas break: a translation of the Special Attack Index (I just need to do the other half), a translation of the Akira Toriyama character secrets talks on D7 p.122, a translation of Gohan's Personal History entry from D2 (since the scan was too small), and maybe something else. I also want to do a sort of overview of what's in each daizenshuu; like a table of contents/index kind of thing.

[Kikoha Hater]

Herms, did the Daizenshuu refer to the name of Gohan “Mystic” transformation as “Gohan-Type” and refer to the resulting form as “Super Gohan” or “Saikyo no Senshi”. I don’t know I’m still a little confused on why they would give that particular form more than one name instead of settling for one definite name.

Did they also go through the trouble of naming Zarbon (Monster Form), Kaioshin (Kabit fusion), Bojack, Janemba and Hildegarn’s forms?

[FindKenshi]

So I take it none of the Daizenshuu discuss the power of the Buu forms, or at least specify if absorbing South Kaioshin made Buu grow stronger, or if it had the same effect as Dai Kaioshin?

Not really. There's no information on that which isn't in the manga, anyway. Possibly less, even.

Then it is offical. Not even Mr. Toriyama himself, nor the Bird Studio staff know the answer to that one.
Here's the new question then:

Are Bojack and his member from the same realm as Dabura? They are supposed to be... demons... right?

[Toriyama Boss]

OK, the last thing on kiri: the line about 200-300 kiri being enough to destroy 1-2 planets isn't in the manga. There, after Babidi measure's Goku's energy and finds it to be 3,000 kiri, Dabra merely says that humans shouldn't be able to have that much power. However, it is in the corresponding episode, 223. Dabra says it there around the same time. This piece of information is included in the entry on kiri in Daizenshuu 7's term dictionary. Rechecking this entry, I don't find any errors in the translation of it I provided earlier. If the Glenat's French translation of Daizenshuu 7 says anything different, then it's either a mistranslation or an intentional change.

I'm pretty sure the attack Piccolo is shown doing in each of those scans is just a generic ki blast.

Thank you for the information again. I really do appreciate your work and kindness for giving away this kind of info Herms.

Does the Daizenshuu 7 have a profile on "Super Kanzentai Cell?" If so, do you mind translating that info concerning Super Kanzentai Cell?Thanks.

Now then, as of this Christmas I am now the proud owner of Daizenshuu 10. I'll be doing a write-up of it, just like I did 1-7. Other things from the daizenshuu I plan on doing before the end of my Christmas break: a translation of the Special Attack Index (I just need to do the other half), a translation of the Akira Toriyama character secrets talks on D7 p.122, a translation of Gohan's Personal History entry from D2 (since the scan was too small), and maybe something else. I also want to do a sort of overview of what's in each daizenshuu; like a table of contents/index kind of thing.

Dude you are the boss!
I would love to read your translation on Akira Toriyama "character secret talks!" and the special attack index!!! Didn't know it had one.