Aspects of Dragonball Fandom that Piss You Off

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Post by TripleRach » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:33 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:And the Piccolo thing states that he is a part of a race of humanoid ninjas who were supposed to work with the Saiyans to take over the universe.
Humanoid does not mean homosapien. It means human-like, as in bipedal, two arms, nose, mouth, eyes, ears, etc. Like all the alien races on Star Trek, or, say, Namekkians?

Plus, it's already been stated that James Marsters will be wearing green make-up with pointy ears. I don't know any human beings with green skin and pointy ears.

And since this is essentially a rant thread, what's with all the complaints about the lack of Kuririn? Has no one ever seen the beginning of the manga, or the anime, or the first DB movie, or the 10th anniversary DB movie? No telling of the beginning of the story has ever included Kuririn, so why is everyone expecting this one to? I'm not even looking forward to the movie at all, but I can at least recognize that.
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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:45 pm

Well, since this movie seems to be based off of the Piccolo Daimaio arc, it needs to have Krillin in it. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't watched DB in awhile, but doesn't Krillin die for the first time in that one, which pretty much pushes Goku over the edge?

Theres that, plus, a huge part of the original series has to do with Goku and Krillin's rivalry turned friendship.
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Post by Tatsunoboshi Horoko » Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:47 pm

And since this is essentially a rant thread, what's with all the complaints about the lack of Kuririn? Has no one ever seen the beginning of the manga, or the anime, or the first DB movie, or the 10th anniversary DB movie? No telling of the beginning of the story has ever included Kuririn, so why is everyone expecting this one to? I'm not even looking forward to the movie at all, but I can at least recognize that.
I believe that this stems from the fact that they are casting a person who is essentially Kuririn, but isn't. Which begs the question: why not just put in Kuririn in the first place instead of placing in a new character who basically has the same role/serves the same purpose?

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Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:01 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Anonymous Friend wrote:I'm not sure if this was brought up or not but these about a dozen pages and I'm not reading thru all of them.

I really dislike it when Dragonball fans, or fans of any franchise for that matter, have a lack of imagination when it comes to the material showing in in other forms or mediums.

The first thing that comes to mind is the Live Action movie and all the "it can't be done" talk that comes with it even years before it was officially greenlit. Just the fact the anyone can claim that a movie can't be made of a cartoon with pretty straight forward storytelling just hurts my head badly. Especially when they don't have any defence of their stand that's more than: "But it's Dragonball Z" or "But the hair won't be right."

The other lack of imagination that comes to mind is due more to the structure of the series (and it's lack of proper balancing) than the fans themselves is when it come to the characters interacting (fighting) other characters from series such as other manga/anime and comic books. I love Dragonball to death but I know that there's no way Goku can take Superman.
Why do the fans hate the fact that the live action movie is being made?

Simply, because it just isn't Dragonball. Piccolo is a human, instead of a demonic anthro slug. Mai is now Piccolo's lackey instead of Pilaf's. Goku and Chi-Chi apparently have a sex scene. (If you remember, there was very little kissing even in the manga and shows.) Goku is an emo high school student. There's no Krillin.

Its the ultimate gangraping, in my opinion. Absolutely pathetic.
I wasn't refering to the live action movie that's currently in production because i can understand people's frustrations with it. Although with the lack of information we really can't say anything for sure. And for anyone's mind to translate "mutual attraction heats" to "knocking boots" says more about where your mind is that for what the producing are actually making. Remember, the demographic for this movie are children. and as much as I would love to have a topless Chichi (not intentional), I don't we'll get this in this movie.
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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:09 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote:Remember, the demographic for this movie are children. and as much as I would love to have a topless Chichi (not intentional), I don't we'll get this in this movie.
Well, so was DareDevil, and there was a pretty gratuitous sex scene in that.

Nothing was shown in that one, but it was quite obvious what was going on. No one just kisses naked.
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Post by Rocketman » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:45 pm

ChiChi in a sex scene.

Problem is where?

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Post by Saiyavenger2941 » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:43 pm

Rocketman wrote:ChiChi in a sex scene.

Problem is where?
It just isn't DB. Yeah, its great for pervs, but for me, and a good bit of the people I know? Not cool. Not cool at all.
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Post by Rocketman » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:43 pm

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:It just isn't DB.
Image

Anyways, it didn't even say there was a sex scene.

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Post by Xyex » Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:44 pm

I love Dragonball to death but I know that there's no way Goku can take Superman.
Cell Games Goku and later could walk all over the current Superman. Pre-Crisis Superman would smack SSJ4 Gogeta around like a fly, though.

Anyway, since the topic has come up. I hate it when people bash something that isn't out yet for stuff it wont have.
Simply, because it just isn't Dragonball.
Looks Dragonball to me.
Piccolo is a human, instead of a demonic anthro slug.
He's not human.
Mai is now Piccolo's lackey instead of Pilaf's.
She already was, in a sense. She, Pilaf, and Shuu temporarily worked for Piccolo while he was gathering the DBs. The movie is just expanding on that element. Big deal.
Goku and Chi-Chi apparently have a sex scene.
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

That's the dumbest complaint against the movie I've ever seen. There isn't one. There wont be one.
(If you remember, there was very little kissing even in the manga and shows.)
Toriyama's not good with romance. And I think he's said he's embarrased writing it. Hence why it's not in there a lot.
Goku is an emo high school student.
Goku goes to a school, so? He's not emo, he's just unpopular. Unpopular =/= emo.
There's no Krillin.
So?
This is just what I'm getting from the casting sides that were released. Goku is an unpopular high school student, which makes no sense, because Goku never went to school in the series.
Yeah, so? Grandpa Gohan was dead by the time Goku went on his first adventure. Mai could never shape shift. Piccolo only had a handful of minions. It's a movie adaptation of the series. It is not, nor was it ever intended to be, the manga, word for word, pannel for pannel, acted out on a movie screen. Deal with it.
About the sex scene, in the casting sides, it says something along the lines of "Goku and Chi-Chi's mutual attraction heats up at the tournament" or something like that, thus, in my eyes, implying that theres a sex scene there, which, as I said, would definitely be a major malfunction, what with the lack of a lot of displays of affection in the entire series, including GT.
Goku and Chi-Chi are one of the couples that do get a good number of scenes showing affection. Goku spinning Chi-Chi around after recovering from the heart virus comes to mind. And several times in the Buu arc. And let's not forget all the times with Videl and Gohan~

Also. That statement = sex scene to you? Say what? You need to get your mind out of the gutter, my friend. There's a million ways that could go, none of them involving sex. I never even considered it could even remotely imply a sex scene and I'm the *counts* 3rd most perverted person here.
And the Piccolo thing states that he is a part of a race of humanoid ninjas who were supposed to work with the Saiyans to take over the universe.
.....

Are you sure you even read the real and official information for the movie? I mean, really, really, really sure? Becuase I have no idea where you're getting this nonsense. First of all, humanoid =/= human. Every alien race seen in Dragonball, from Namekians to Freeza's men (and Freeza's race too) were humanoid.

Secondly, it was never said that the Nameks or the Saiya-jins worked together to take over anything. It said that Piccolo tells Goku it is 'his destiny' to help him. That implies nothing more than Piccolo knowing Goku's a Saiya-jin, IE a violent warrior race that conquers planets (just like he's doing on Earth, would you look at that!) and that it's in his nature to help him, not to fight against him.

Thirdly, it never says that Piccolo, or the Namekian race as whole, were ninjas. It says that Piccolo has an army of 'Namekian ninjas' at his command. It doesn't say that these 'Namekian ninjas' are anything more than Nameks in name. A clan of humans that worship Piccolo could call themselves Namekian, doesn't mean they are.
One: The Namekians were a peaceful race, aside from Piccolo Sr. and Slug.
And nothing about the movie says it shall be different there.
Two: Goku never found out about his Saiyan heritage until the start of Z, and that wasn't from Piccolo at all. It was revealed by Raditz.
I repeat, movie adaptation. Besides, who the fuck cares who tells Goku he's an alien? It's not like it matters in the end. Everyone already knows.
Three: THEY'RE F*CKING ANTHRO SLUGS! NOT HUMAN NINJAS!
And Piccolo is neither a ninja nor a human. And we don't know if his underlings are Namekians in more than name. Hell, they could just be his demon like spawn, which is neither human nor Namekian. So yeah, that complaint is completely invalid.
Just so many things wrong with this movie... Thats why the majority of fans hate it already.
Just because those against the movie are louder than those that are either for it or are holding their tongue until it's out doesn't mean they're the majority.
One: It'll be a box office success, and people who have no idea about the "true" Dragonball series will love it. The same people who made fun of DB and it's fans, no less.
That's just stupid. Tell me. Would you go out and watch a movie about something you've never heard of, enjoy it, and completely ignore what it was based on? No. Also, I can assure you, there will be plenty of pre-existing Dragonball fans that will enjoy the movie as well.
Two: It'll bring about a huge influx of manga and anime based movies, much like Spider-Man did for comic book movies.
Been there, done that, you're behind the times.
Well, since this movie seems to be based off of the Piccolo Daimaio arc, it needs to have Krillin in it. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I haven't watched DB in awhile, but doesn't Krillin die for the first time in that one, which pretty much pushes Goku over the edge?
Krillin was also in the RRA arc, and Upa's father, Bora, was the one killed there. And yet, DB movie 4 did the RRA arc without Krillin, Upa, Bora, Tao, or Baba. Grandpa Gohan is taking Krillin's place for the 'close friend gets killed' role. That was Krillin's only role in the arc, so why would they include him? Especially scince those who've never seen the manga or anime wouldn't know (and 10-20 minutes wouldn't be enough time to establish) that Goku and Krillin are the best of friends. His death would be meaningless to the average movie-goer.
ChiChi in a sex scene.

Problem is where?
Good point. :D
It just isn't DB. Yeah, its great for pervs, but for me, and a good bit of the people I know? Not cool. Not cool at all.
Uh, you're the only one jumping to the conclusion that it has to be a sex scene. :roll:
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Post by desirecampbell » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:21 pm

Re: everything Xyex said about the movie.

That's a tremendous amount of bullshit, but there's nothing to be gained from another movie topic, so let's all just focus on the topic at hand, eh?

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Post by Snail » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:38 pm

We should just have a thread where people can argue, argue, argue...and argue, with a side of extreme verbal bitchslappings. As long as it's Dragonball related that is.. har har.

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Post by Rocketman » Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:43 pm

Snail wrote:We should just have a thread where people can argue, argue, argue...and argue, with a side of extreme verbal bitchslappings. As long as it's Dragonball related that is.. har har.
*looks around*

Uh...

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Post by Magica » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:12 pm

Snail wrote:We should just have a thread where people can argue, argue, argue...and argue, with a side of extreme verbal bitchslappings. As long as it's Dragonball related that is.. har har.
No kidding. It's really hard to browse forum topics anymore because it ends up being pages upon pages of widescreen or movie bullshit.

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Post by FindKenshi » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:28 pm

TripleRach wrote:No telling of the beginning of the story has ever included Kuririn, so why is everyone expecting this one to?
Because it was Kuririn's death that enraged Goku and made him fight against Piccolo Daimao. You can't tell the Piccolo story without Krillin.

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Post by Xyex » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:31 pm

FindKenshi wrote:
TripleRach wrote:No telling of the beginning of the story has ever included Kuririn, so why is everyone expecting this one to?
Because it was Kuririn's death that enraged Goku and made him fight against Piccolo Daimao. You can't tell the Piccolo story without Krillin.
In the anime and manga, yes. In the movie it's Grandpa Gohan's death that spur's Goku into confrontation with Piccolo. So yes, you can tell the Piccolo story without Krillin.

Also, as I said before, there's not enough time in the movie to buildup the relationship between Goku and Krillin. If you start the movie, say their best friends, and then kill Krillin ten minutes later the audience wont give a crap. It's poor story telling. If they were startting with the RRA, then yeah, they'd have reason to include Krillin and the could use the first movie to show how close of friends he and Goku are. But they aren't, so they can't, so it's best to go with the obvious close relationship of Grandpa Gohan. Everyone knows what it's like to lose family and family is a much easier bond to build and display in a short span of time than friends.
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Post by TripleRach » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:42 pm

FindKenshi wrote:
TripleRach wrote:No telling of the beginning of the story has ever included Kuririn, so why is everyone expecting this one to?
Because it was Kuririn's death that enraged Goku and made him fight against Piccolo Daimao. You can't tell the Piccolo story without Krillin.
Well yes, but my point is the current plot resembles the first story arc far more than the Piccolo arc. Just like the anniversary movie resembles the first arc moreso than the Red Ribbon arc, even though they're the villains and a significant part of the plot.

And, as much as I hate to defend the movie's alterations, someone close to Gokuu is still going to get killed by Piccolo, and this person won't even need build up to show that he's important to Gokuu the way that Kuririn was built up in the series.

Plus, I still don't see any reason that Kuririn couldn't be introduced in a potential sequel. There's still plenty of other deaths for him to have.
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Post by Super Sonic » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:52 am

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Anonymous Friend wrote:Remember, the demographic for this movie are children. and as much as I would love to have a topless Chichi (not intentional), I don't we'll get this in this movie.
Well, so was DareDevil, and there was a pretty gratuitous sex scene in that.

Nothing was shown in that one, but it was quite obvious what was going on. No one just kisses naked.
That was more a romantic PG-13 movie love scene. And though I haven't seen it yet, I heard it was the same in the R-Rated director's cut.

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Post by Sn4tcH » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:45 pm

Super Sonic wrote:
Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Anonymous Friend wrote:Remember, the demographic for this movie are children. and as much as I would love to have a topless Chichi (not intentional), I don't we'll get this in this movie.
Well, so was DareDevil, and there was a pretty gratuitous sex scene in that.

Nothing was shown in that one, but it was quite obvious what was going on. No one just kisses naked.
That was more a romantic PG-13 movie love scene. And though I haven't seen it yet, I heard it was the same in the R-Rated director's cut.
It's not in the rated R version at all. That was cut out, there is no sex scene at all. The director said he hated that scene because it made elektra seem slutty, so he cut it out.
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Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:30 pm

With the Dragon Ball movie, they're changing Goku's entire backstory. I mean, in Spider-Man, they changed the villain who he fought, but they kept Peter's story the same - a socially inept, nerdy, High School kid who has a crush on Mary-Jane develops super-human spider-like powers after getting bit by a radioactive spider (it was a genetically mutated species of spider in the movie, but you get the point) and becomes a super hero after his uncle Ben is killed by a thug that he allowed to get away. With this, they're changing Goku's entire story. Imagine if they did that with Peter Parker? What if they changed his entire backstory? There would be almost universal outrage from the fans. That's why actual Dragon Ball fans don't like what they're doing with the movie.
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Post by Rocketman » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:44 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:With the Dragon Ball movie, they're changing Goku's entire backstory. I mean, in Spider-Man, they changed the villain who he fought, but they kept Peter's story the same - a socially inept, nerdy, High School kid who has a crush on Mary-Jane
Image Mary Jane wasn't introduced in the comics until Peter was in college, and they didn't hook up until the Black Suit story arc in the mid-80s.

And anyway, they did change Spidey's backstory. They changed it a hell of a lot from the original comics. They even eliminated one of the biggest moments in Spidey history - the death of Gwen Stacy.

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