Could a fan have... (DBAF Doujinshi)

testing223 · Post by **testing223** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:09 am

FindKenshi wrote:

Oh, come on... now "Evil Vegetto Dude" does his Dabura impression? I've seen enough. *walks out*

ACtually, I think Dabura was floating in the air when he fired, so I don't think the pose for Evil Vegetto is the same there.

The others, ya, but this one I think is something else.

Freeza93 · Post by **Freeza93** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:17 am

Why is it that in every fan made manga (or AF story lines), theres always a new form of super saiyan? It's so unimaginative!

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:04 pm

FindKenshi wrote:
Captain Awesome wrote:I agree with you concerning the tracings (and Xicor's design), but calling him out on poses?, thats a little much, considering he's at least drawing the complete character.
Thats the thing though. The poses I called him out on ARE the tracings. It only shows he can't draw these characters in unique poses. Like the panel where I say "Now he's doing Dabura impression" everything from the exact placement of Trunk's arms and stuff is identical to when Dabura shot Kibito. I'm just happy I'm not the only one who noticed this, though.

I am more then a bit disturbed though, that I seem to be the only one who cares. You guys correct people for calling Mr. Toriyama, "Akira", in this very topic, for the reason of being respectul... and yet you have no problem with someone having stolen his artwork!?

Tracing is tracing. This guy is taking someone elses work and passing it off as his own. I'm not talking about the characters and concept of Dragonball. A fanfic is a fanfic. I'm talking about the artwork itself. I mean, come on. You want to talk about being direspectful towards Akira Toriyama, it does not get any worse then stealing his artwork.

Tatsunoboshi Horoko wrote:http://blog.livedoor.jp/toyble/archives/50808433.html

I rest my case.
I'm very VERY interested to read a translation of that blog, if anyone would oblige? I mean, that's just sad. Even depicting the one who noticed this as the nerdy version of Gohan, it's almost like he's saying "So I traced a few panels, who cares, get over it."

This is infuriating.

It's not as if he's selling this manga or anything. The poses, and the manga itself, are a homage to Toriyama and his work. He's just a fan like us; no need to compare him to the likes of EVIL BOOTLEGGERS. They're the evil ones.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:32 pm

Ok, I'm sorry, VERY sorry. It seems I cannot express my thoughts/feelings on this matter in words, well enough to get my point across. So, instead, I have to get my point across with PICTURES.

When you guys look at this fanmanga, this is what you see.

When I look at it, my eyes see only this.

And that, I cannot enjoy. And also feel strongly that nor should anyone else.

testing223 · Post by **testing223** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:49 am

That's a good catch. Can you do the rest of them? I'd like to see.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:53 am

FindKenshi wrote:Ok, I'm sorry, VERY sorry. It seems I cannot express my thoughts/feelings on this matter in words, well enough to get my point across. So, instead, I have to get my point across with PICTURES.

When you guys look at this fanmanga, this is what you see.

When I look at it, my eyes see only this.

And that, I cannot enjoy.

This part was all perfectly nice and well-thought and reasonable...

And also feel strongly that nor should anyone else.

...Heeere.... is where things kinda fell apart.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:35 am

testing223 wrote:That's a good catch. Can you do the rest of them? I'd like to see.

Maybe later, that's a lot of scanning to do. But yes, each and every one of my examples earlier has a MIRROR IMAGE (or damn close to it) in the Dragonball manga...

SSj Kaboom wrote:
And also feel strongly that nor should anyone else.
...Heeere.... is where things kinda fell apart.

Why? It's called morals. You personally believe murder is wrong...so, you thusly think no one else should do it either, not JUST you should refrain. People are giving this Toyble guy credit for amazing artwork, when his art is stolen, and that disgusts me and should disgust you too, as well as anyone else in the world who actually respects any artist.

Course, that's just my opinion.

Tatsunoboshi Horoko · Post by **Tatsunoboshi Horoko** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:56 am

Once again, I must bring up: http://blog.livedoor.jp/toyble/archives/50808433.html

As you all may well know,
this manga has a lot of scenes that are organized and slightly altered from the original.

There might be some that feel hurt by this,
but you should just enjoy it
instead of feeling like "So, this is what they used~?"

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:23 pm

Is there any place that's got this stuff translated? Where I could read it in English I mean?

Tatsunoboshi Horoko · Post by **Tatsunoboshi Horoko** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:25 pm

Check out the thread in the General Discussion area. I've translated up to the most recent page. (Excluding that page that tells the story of Taipon and how he got to the Kaioshin's Realm.)

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=4470

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:30 pm

Oh. Heh, guess if I'd looked around before asking I'd have found it. Thanks for the link though Tatsunoboshi Horoko, I'm off to read it now.

FindKenshi · Post by **FindKenshi** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:34 pm

Tatsunoboshi Horoko wrote:Once again, I must bring up: http://blog.livedoor.jp/toyble/archives/50808433.html

As you all may well know,
this manga has a lot of scenes that are organized and slightly altered from the original.

There might be some that feel hurt by this,
but you should just enjoy it
instead of feeling like "So, this is what they used~?"

Then my suspicion was correct. He's basically just saying "Heh, ya caught me. But who cares."

testing223 · Post by **testing223** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:24 am

FindKenshi wrote:
Tatsunoboshi Horoko wrote:Once again, I must bring up: http://blog.livedoor.jp/toyble/archives/50808433.html

As you all may well know,
this manga has a lot of scenes that are organized and slightly altered from the original.

There might be some that feel hurt by this,
but you should just enjoy it
instead of feeling like "So, this is what they used~?"
Then my suspicion was correct. He's basically just saying "Heh, ya caught me. But who cares."

Hey, where's your avatar from?

eienmic · Post by **eienmic** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:02 pm

It's a screen cap from an old Japanese commercial for the DBZ RPG on SFC.

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:10 pm

FindKenshi wrote:Course, that's just my opinion.

If it's really your opinion, you wouldn't impose it on others. You also can't compare murder to this case, because it's fact that murder is wrong, while your opinion on Toyble's doujinshi is just an opinion. You can impose facts on people ("Murder is bad"), but you cannot impose opinions on people ("Toyble's doujinshi is bad").

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:39 pm

Terra-jin wrote:
FindKenshi wrote:Course, that's just my opinion.
If it's really your opinion, you wouldn't impose it on others. You also can't compare murder to this case, because it's fact that murder is wrong, while your opinion on Toyble's doujinshi is just an opinion. You can impose facts on people ("Murder is bad"), but you cannot impose opinions on people ("Toyble's doujinshi is bad").

Actually, 'murder is bad' is an opinion too. One most people agree with, but an opinion nonetheless.

Terra-jin · Post by **Terra-jin** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:02 pm

Hmm, you're right. You know, I've had a few philosofical debates on what's good and evil, relatively and absolutely, but it's still a very difficult topic. I guess my point was that you can enforce something like "Do not kill" on people, because while you cannot say that every murder is necessarily absolutely evil, the implications of a moral standard like "Do not kill" is indeed absolutely good, because the world it generates is better than that which the opposite moral standard "Do kill" would generate. Am I going in the right direction here..?

Post by **desirecampbell** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:11 pm

Terra-jin wrote:Hmm, you're right. You know, I've had a few philosofical debates on what's good and evil, relatively and absolutely, but it's still a very difficult topic. I guess my point was that you can enforce something like "Do not kill" on people, because while you cannot say that every murder is necessarily absolutely evil, the implications of a moral standard like "Do not kill" is indeed absolutely good, because the world it generates is better than that which the opposite moral standard "Do kill" would generate. Am I going in the right direction here..?

Who knows? Scruples are personal and change from moment to moment, based on what each individual person has thought, experienced, and thinks he will eventually experience.

But that's really not a Dragon Ball-related topic

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:52 pm

Mention Goku once or twice in your discussion and you should be fine.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:16 pm

FindKenshi wrote:
testing223 wrote:That's a good catch. Can you do the rest of them? I'd like to see.
Maybe later, that's a lot of scanning to do. But yes, each and every one of my examples earlier has a MIRROR IMAGE (or damn close to it) in the Dragonball manga...

SSj Kaboom wrote:
And also feel strongly that nor should anyone else.
...Heeere.... is where things kinda fell apart.
Why? It's called morals. You personally believe murder is wrong...so, you thusly think no one else should do it either, not JUST you should refrain. People are giving this Toyble guy credit for amazing artwork, when his art is stolen, and that disgusts me and should disgust you too, as well as anyone else in the world who actually respects any artist.

Course, that's just my opinion.

Well, comparing it to murder isn't accurate. Most sane people think murder is wrong. Thats a little different. But anybody can like or dislike this guys AF manga, its seems to be 50-50.