"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm

Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:50 pm
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:58 pm
Why do people want SS3 to be unusable? The stamina isn't an issue as an SS3 anymore for Goku, especially since SSB was outright stated to have a ridiculous stamina toll in the manga, and he managed to overcome that too.
Because is a freaking obsolete form? I get it that SSJ3 is somewhat cool, but it doesn't make sense to use nowadays, the same thing to SSJ2. Toyotaro should just kept with Toriyama thoughts about Goku only using SSJ, God and Blue which is more logical to the present days.
Except it's perfectly logical to use a form that takes less energy against foes who don't need a stronger to be fought against. Like 17. It's a decent way to gauge the strength of an opponent to the reader as well. It's not obsolete if the amount of energy it consumes isn't an issue and it can be used against weaker opponents. By your logic everything that isn't SSB is obsolete.

Sometimes it feels like people get mad just because they dislike SS3 and don't want it to be used anymore, so they cling to ideas of in-universe justifications for it not to be used anymore.
Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:32 pm
Nope. He gives the same treatment to both as they were always adapted from his vague outlines. Explaining the difference between each.
If I may interject, the anime's hectic schedule wouldn't really allow for Toriyama to be as involved as he could be with the manga. If I recall it was the Dragon Room that was supposed to fix this at some point, though I recall reading the Tournament of Power still had issues. Throughout the manga however Toriyama has drawn entire pages, we've been outright shown he'll correct several pages worth of dialogue in a chapter if he feels there's an issue or someone is out of character. And he stated that certain events, such as Vegeta going Super Saiyan God in the manga, were intimately supervised by him.

If you wanna argue about canon though, the DBS anime recognizes filler that only happened in the anime, such as Ginyu stealing Bulma's body or Gregory's entire existence. Neither of these things can really exist in a true continuity of the Dragon Ball manga, otherwise there's several massive holes. The DBS manga ignores these events and filler, so at the very least I'd consider it a proper successor to the manga continuity of Dragon Ball, while the DBS anime can be considered one to the anime. Dragon Ball's publisher Shueisha has at least stated they consider the DBS manga to be the official continuation of the Dragon Ball manga anyways. That's my opinion though. Try not to be antagonistic just because you dislike the manga though.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:53 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm
...though I recall reading the Tournament of Power still had issues. Throughout the manga however Toriyama has drawn entire pages, we've been outright shown he'll correct several pages worth of dialogue in a chapter if he feels there's an issue or someone is out of character. And he stated that certain events, such as Vegeta going Super Saiyan God in the manga, were intimately supervised by him.
Is that true? I would like to see the source on this one. Always a pleasure to see that Toriyama indeed gives a sh*t about these details.
If you wanna argue about canon though, the DBS anime recognizes filler that only happened in the anime, such as Ginyu stealing Bulma's body or Gregory's entire existence. Neither of these things can really exist in a true continuity of the Dragon Ball manga, otherwise there's several massive holes. The DBS manga ignores these events and filler, so at the very least I'd consider it a proper successor to the manga continuity of Dragon Ball, while the DBS anime can be considered one to the anime. Dragon Ball's publisher Shueisha has at least stated they consider the DBS manga to be the official continuation of the Dragon Ball manga anyways. That's my opinion though. Try not to be antagonistic just because you dislike the manga though.
There's no such thing as true continuation if the original work (manga) is indeed finished. We don't get DB Vol. 43 for a reason. The anime has several adaptations, so it's easier to pull that Super may be sequel of Z or better yet Kai as its footage was used on flashbacks.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm

batistabus wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:25 pm
Noah wrote:
TKA wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:08 pm
That's anime canon, and doesn't even make sense in that context. This is a thread about the manga.
Except that the anime canon is the main canon of Super and the manga remains as side story fluff for entertainment/promotion.
Come on, now. At this point, this is just low-quality, antagonistic bait.

Not that this has anything to do with TKA's post, but if we're keeping track...

-The DBS manga has been called the "official sequel" to the original manga at least twice now. The anime has never been called that.

-Toyotaro and Toriyama are co-writing this arc with strong implications that Toyotaro is leading the charge. If the anime adapts this arc, they will - at the very least - be adapting the Toyo/Tori outline. At the moment, the manga is the only medium covering events post-Broly.

-It has been stated at least twice that Toyo is Tori's chosen successor. Dragon Ball is first and foremost a manga series, not an anime. The DBS anime started off as an adaptation of two films.

-Toriyama contributes actual drawings and dialogue to the manga. At best, he gives suggestions to the anime.

-Toriyama has never made a positive comment about the DBS anime series. Animation-wise, Toriyama has only complimented the DBS movies (including BoG), which Toyotaro has skipped 2/3 of. Toriyama has endorsed the DBS manga. I personally consider the movies and manga the true canon in part because Toriyama seems to view it that way.

-While the DBS manga started as a promo manga years ago, you'd be lying if you were to deny that it has turned into something much more substantial.

Etc.

Somewhat related, they are apparently coming out with some figures based on DBS manga panels:
that something is "official" does not make it canon

and anyway it was said that anime was the most complete continuation mentioned by the author.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -toriyama/

for me it is clear anime is the main canon and manga is not could the real canon because being very dependent on other media

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:02 pm

Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:53 pm
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm
...though I recall reading the Tournament of Power still had issues. Throughout the manga however Toriyama has drawn entire pages, we've been outright shown he'll correct several pages worth of dialogue in a chapter if he feels there's an issue or someone is out of character. And he stated that certain events, such as Vegeta going Super Saiyan God in the manga, were intimately supervised by him.
Is that true? I would like to see the source on this one. Always a pleasure to see that Toriyama indeed gives a sh*t about these details.
Pretty much all the volume extras except the last 2 or 3 volumes have provided examples of what I describe. He briefly mentions the Vegeta going Super Saiyan God thing in a volume extra interview in volume 5 I believe, and several pages of Ribrianne dialogue were corrected by Toriyama during the ToP according to the volume extras for whatever volume her chapter was in. Several pages of Jiren were pretty much entirely redrawn by Toriyama. Herms98 has translated most of them, just go on his twitter and look for them. If Toyotaro handles his characters in a way Toriyama believes is incorrect (such as potentially giving Belmod and Marcarita a romantic subtext) he'll correct him in the initial draft.

Toriyama is really, HEAVILY involved with the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:23 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm
Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:50 pm
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:58 pm
Why do people want SS3 to be unusable? The stamina isn't an issue as an SS3 anymore for Goku, especially since SSB was outright stated to have a ridiculous stamina toll in the manga, and he managed to overcome that too.
Because is a freaking obsolete form? I get it that SSJ3 is somewhat cool, but it doesn't make sense to use nowadays, the same thing to SSJ2. Toyotaro should just kept with Toriyama thoughts about Goku only using SSJ, God and Blue which is more logical to the present days.
Except it's perfectly logical to use a form that takes less energy against foes who don't need a stronger to be fought against. Like 17. It's a decent way to gauge the strength of an opponent to the reader as well. It's not obsolete if the amount of energy it consumes isn't an issue and it can be used against weaker opponents. By your logic everything that isn't SSB is obsolete.

Sometimes it feels like people get mad just because they dislike SS3 and don't want it to be used anymore, so they cling to ideas of in-universe justifications for it not to be used anymore.
Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:32 pm
Nope. He gives the same treatment to both as they were always adapted from his vague outlines. Explaining the difference between each.
If I may interject, the anime's hectic schedule wouldn't really allow for Toriyama to be as involved as he could be with the manga. If I recall it was the Dragon Room that was supposed to fix this at some point, though I recall reading the Tournament of Power still had issues. Throughout the manga however Toriyama has drawn entire pages, we've been outright shown he'll correct several pages worth of dialogue in a chapter if he feels there's an issue or someone is out of character. And he stated that certain events, such as Vegeta going Super Saiyan God in the manga, were intimately supervised by him.

If you wanna argue about canon though, the DBS anime recognizes filler that only happened in the anime, such as Ginyu stealing Bulma's body or Gregory's entire existence. Neither of these things can really exist in a true continuity of the Dragon Ball manga, otherwise there's several massive holes. The DBS manga ignores these events and filler, so at the very least I'd consider it a proper successor to the manga continuity of Dragon Ball, while the DBS anime can be considered one to the anime. Dragon Ball's publisher Shueisha has at least stated they consider the DBS manga to be the official continuation of the Dragon Ball manga anyways. That's my opinion though. Try not to be antagonistic just because you dislike the manga though.
for both cases the author is involved in both in regard to story ... nothing changes that much one or other ... that includes changing the personality of jiren

the manga contradicts some movie facts of how goku absorbing the power of the SSG and fnf

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:14 am

Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:32 pm
There are enough evidences that the anime unlike the manga is the main product.
There is nothing there to prove that anime is the "main canon", Toriyama is literally just talking about the Dragon Ball Super series (which is actually a continuation of the Boo arc in any media), not about "DBS anime". I don't know how at this point the anime is still seen as the main one.

Toriyama even changed his script to include Vegetto, which was Toyotaro's idea (and was used in the anime) and stated that he approved SSG Vegeta's idea in the manga, in addition to the many other changes he constantly makes (something we hardly know about the anime). And in DBS Broly, Toriyama didn't even include most of the additions made by TOEI in the anime

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:25 am

Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:56 pm
Because it was said from the man himself:

Sure this is 5 years old, but I would prefer if they kept this way, even though I cannot complain about the love SSJ2 received throughout Super.
It was mostly a rhetorical question. I know why Toriyama prefers to stick with Super Saiyan but not Super Saiyan 2 when the latter should be the go-to/basic transformation nowadays. There's no in-universe explanation for that, but out-universe? "HuUr DUuR SuPeR SaAiYaJin iS IcOniC!11!1" and all that nonsense involved. Well, gotta thank Toei for giving a little bit of love to Super Saiyan 2 indeed.

I can't send this to the official entities, but certainly I can ask why someone would support this idea of using the crap Super Saiyan instead of the better one that is its successor. And as I said once, using Super Saiyan is redundant these days, as it is already in use via Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SSJgogeto » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:47 am

Personally I prefer SS instead of SS2. The latter can still be used in the anime/manga sometimes, but IMO is just a variation, like Grade 2 or Grade 3.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:36 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:14 am
Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:32 pm
There are enough evidences that the anime unlike the manga is the main product.
There is nothing there to prove that anime is the "main canon", Toriyama is literally just talking about the Dragon Ball Super series (which is actually a continuation of the Boo arc in any media), not about "DBS anime". I don't know how at this point the anime is still seen as the main one.

Toriyama even changed his script to include Vegetto, which was Toyotaro's idea (and was used in the anime) and stated that he approved SSG Vegeta's idea in the manga, in addition to the many other changes he constantly makes (something we hardly know about the anime). And in DBS Broly, Toriyama didn't even include most of the additions made by TOEI in the anime
that's a message about the DBS anime ...

the anime came out earlier ... that scene in the manga which indicates that it was a coincidence or toei had already coordinated it

toriyama changed the personality that jiren was going to have in the anime in addition to his appearance before tournament

when goku remembers the warriors powerful in the tournament kefla and ribrianne are displayed in addition to the pride troopers and only in the anime he fight them

also remembering broly was chosen by advice from toei's staff to toriyama

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:02 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:09 pm
another thing ... it seems that they try to make goku and vegeta look like 2 guys that only know transforms ... what happened to the techniques? What happened to the skill? I hope that the moro arc is not adapted to the anime because it would be very contradictory with all the characters with different techniques and skills that both faced before.
What techniques? Kienzan? After images? Kaioken? Lol, even those are no good without Ki. Which Moro absorbs.
This is the reason why Vegeta is going to learn some techniques to deal with Moro.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:49 am

You know there shouldn’t be any forms anymore in the future once Goku and Vegeta master Ultra Instinct. All previous transformations MUST vanish, for they are useless. Plus, UI will activate on it’s own when someone attacks you, so it would quite literally be impossible for Goku and Vegeta to use any other SSJ transformation. Since any incoming threat will activate UI in them to keep them from harm.

My viewpoints are perfect!😎
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:04 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:49 am
You know there shouldn’t be any forms anymore in the future once Goku and Vegeta master Ultra Instinct. All previous transformations MUST vanish, for they are useless. Plus, UI will activate on it’s own when someone attacks you, so it would quite literally be impossible for Goku and Vegeta to use any other SSJ transformation. Since any incoming threat will activate UI in them to keep them from harm.

My viewpoints are perfect!😎
This last line sums up most of the discussion on this manga arc so far lmao :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:31 am

Miracles wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:00 pm
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:46 pm
To people who have issue with Toyotaro and what he is doing with merus, I don't think you have much to worry about conserning an explanation. I remember that in the chapter where Moro got his wishes, people were asking why the dragon didn't disapear when cranberri killed moori. Then at the start of the next chapter, it was the first thing explained. Similar things have happened too.

Chances are Toyotaro knows how big of a question he just raised and already has an answer for it.
How about the overreaction about the character they are wondering about now in Merus?
Remember people were whining about how he was able to get the drop on Goku and Vegeta?
Well, his secret strength is being dived into even more from Vegeta's suspicions about him from the start.
Yet I don't remember anybody giving Toyotaro his props for that or apologize for hasty outrage.
This is why for the longest time I thought that people just hated Toyotaro. Always heard negatively about him, calling him incompetent for things and I’m sitting there thinking “Be he explained that in the next chapter”. Turns out they have too much pride to admit they overreacted.

Damn Saiyans.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:02 am

My hopes for the next few chapters:
- Goku comes closer to mastering Ultra Instinct and maybe get's some fancy techniques that relate to it.
- Vegeta learns - interesting - techniques which put him on his unique path distinct from Ultra Instinct/SSJ number X/hair color X.
- Moro comes across Broly or Freeza.
- Earth is able to defend itself without Goku and Vegeta, give old favorites a chance to shine.

If done well this would leave me delighted.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:23 pm

Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:50 pm
Except that the anime canon is the main canon of Super and the manga remains as side story fluff for entertainment/promotion.
1. I don't see how what you said there has anything to do with anything I said. This is a thread about the manga. What the anime does is irrelevant.

2. The manga is the legitimate/true successor to Toriyama's work. This has been stated by official sources. DBS: Broly sure ignored the anime-original forms of the characters, and works better as a continuation of the manga. This point is also irrelevant in this discussion because this thread is about the manga, regardless of if it was "the legitimate sequel" or not.

3. Please only quote me when you have something more substantive to say.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:21 pm

LightBing wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:02 am

- Earth is able to defend itself without Goku and Vegeta, give old favorites a chance to shine.

If done well this would leave me delighted.
Please, THIS. How cool would it be that Ultimate Gohan, the androids(17 probably not, he might stay away), Piccolo and improved Goten and Trunks(Gotenks?), plus Marron (why not?) take care of everything.

Saiyan's offsprings, Krilin's family and Piccolo. But better than in RoF. Please not like RoF.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:39 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:36 am
when goku remembers the warriors powerful in the tournament kefla and ribrianne are displayed in addition to the pride troopers and only in the anime he fight them
He also recalls the Gods of Destruction from the tournament, who he didn't see fight in the anime. He still witnessed Kefla and Ribrianne in the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:59 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:02 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:09 pm
another thing ... it seems that they try to make goku and vegeta look like 2 guys that only know transforms ... what happened to the techniques? What happened to the skill? I hope that the moro arc is not adapted to the anime because it would be very contradictory with all the characters with different techniques and skills that both faced before.
What techniques? Kienzan? After images? Kaioken? Lol, even those are no good without Ki. Which Moro absorbs.
This is the reason why Vegeta is going to learn some techniques to deal with Moro.
Taioken ... anyone can do it
HAKAIi!! ...
mafuba ...
sansoken anyone can do it
teleport with him to a dead planet or useless, king kai planet
etc etc
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:39 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:36 am
when goku remembers the warriors powerful in the tournament kefla and ribrianne are displayed in addition to the pride troopers and only in the anime he fight them
He also recalls the Gods of Destruction from the tournament, who he didn't see fight in the anime. He still witnessed Kefla and Ribrianne in the manga.
goku never saw ribrianne ... besides she was basically a random character in the manga

He also saw the gods in the anime, tournament and pre-tournament

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:18 pm

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:31 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:00 pm
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:46 pm
To people who have issue with Toyotaro and what he is doing with merus, I don't think you have much to worry about conserning an explanation. I remember that in the chapter where Moro got his wishes, people were asking why the dragon didn't disapear when cranberri killed moori. Then at the start of the next chapter, it was the first thing explained. Similar things have happened too.

Chances are Toyotaro knows how big of a question he just raised and already has an answer for it.
How about the overreaction about the character they are wondering about now in Merus?
Remember people were whining about how he was able to get the drop on Goku and Vegeta?
Well, his secret strength is being dived into even more from Vegeta's suspicions about him from the start.
Yet I don't remember anybody giving Toyotaro his props for that or apologize for hasty outrage.
This is why for the longest time I thought that people just hated Toyotaro. Always heard negatively about him, calling him incompetent for things and I’m sitting there thinking “Be he explained that in the next chapter”. Turns out they have too much pride to admit they overreacted.

Damn Saiyans.
Yes. Toyotaro has been pretty consistent so far. I believe it's just too much anime vs manga mentality in the way.
Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:59 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:02 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:09 pm
another thing ... it seems that they try to make goku and vegeta look like 2 guys that only know transforms ... what happened to the techniques? What happened to the skill? I hope that the moro arc is not adapted to the anime because it would be very contradictory with all the characters with different techniques and skills that both faced before.
What techniques? Kienzan? After images? Kaioken? Lol, even those are no good without Ki. Which Moro absorbs.
This is the reason why Vegeta is going to learn some techniques to deal with Moro.
Taioken ... anyone can do it
HAKAIi!! ...
mafuba ...
sansoken anyone can do it
teleport with him to a dead planet or useless, king kai planet
etc etc
All those are Ki based; too straight forward attacks that will be no good against Moro.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:07 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:02 am
All those are Ki based; too straight forward attacks that will be no good against Moro.
one is a lighting attack .. that could blind him

the hakai would erase it before ... unless it regenerates his body something it has not shown

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