The Undying wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:12 am
That's gonna be a hard "no" from me, fam. This is an unbelievably bad take.
Super Saiyan 3 being a double-edged sword always serviced the story. Its power eclipsed Boo's almost every time it appeared, but it also consistently hindered the protagonists without them even knowing it - whether that meant speeding up Goku's remaining time on Earth, decreasing the duration of Gotenks' fusion, or not being able to maintain itself long enough to gain a decisive advantage over Kid Boo - and subsequently forced everyone to come up with more unorthodox solutions along the way. It's a red herring that actively challenged the protagonists and progressed the narrative at every turn.
Super Saiyan 3 constantly subverted expectations. It fucked with people's minds right up until the end of the story arc, making readers assume its "full power" would help Goku finally eliminate Kid Boo and save the universe when, in actuality, it was the Earthlings who would help save the day. It didn't need any foreshadowing, because foreshadowing would have completely diminished its purpose in the Boo arc - throwing off the reader. Its introduction was supposed to have been as surprising as its overall role.
Super Saiyan 3 is
the form that forced Vegeta to come to terms with the fact that Goku was simply stronger than him. It changed up their whole dynamic and developed Vegeta's character in a believable, self-reflective way. This also wouldn't have worked as effectively if it was already foreshadowed, as neither Vegeta nor the reader were privy to the form's existence during his rematch with Goku. Giving readers more knowledge than Vegeta here would undercut the tension of their evolving relationship, and substantively highlights why Goku didn't want to put a damper on Vegeta's pride by just busting it out in their earlier fight.
You can dislike the form, but this is already leagues above anything Toei's filler transformations have done for characterization or dramatic crafting.
See, I always seen the argument of that because Super Saiyan 3 subverts expectations, it works in the story. And my response has always been the same: subverting expectations does not actually make the story better or more interesting. This is such a thing as bad swerves, and in my opinion, Super 3 is one of them.
If the theme that Toriyama was going for was that Super Saiyan 3 is a powerful transformation, but wouldn't be able to get the job done, that would have been fine. But the nature of which Toriyama approaches Super Saiyan 3 as a transformation to subvert your expectation is just so poorly done.
Piccolo point blank asks Goku if he could defeated Majin Boo as a Super Saiyan 3, and Goku say it's very unlikely he would have been able to defeat Majin Boo. That's a good subversion for how Super Saiyan transformations are depicted as the be-all-end-all. But then, during the climatic battle against Kid Boo, Goku lets it slip that he could have defeated Majin Boo when he first confronted him and chose not because he wanted the new generation to handle the problem. This awful reveal absolutely undercuts any kind of subversive theme Toriyama may have initially intended with Super Saiyan 3.
If the main message of Super Saiyan 3 was that you should rely on the next more powerful transformation to solve the problem, that tidbit from Goku before he fights Kid Boo kills that kind of the message, because a transformation like Super Saiyan 3 would have resolved the issue, but it was because Goku not only chose not the resolve the problem -- a problem that he contributed to creating no less -- but he also chose to lie to Piccolo about the circumstances of the battle against Majin Boo -- which is horrendously out of character for him -- in situation where he never previously alluded to the idea of wanting the new generation to learn to take care of themselves to justify not killing Majin Boo.
In terms of how much Super Saiyan 3 itself shakes up the narrative... it's barely noticeable. Goku displays Super Saiyan 3 once, and then leaves, and everyone forgets about Super Saiyan 3 until Gotenks achieves the form (and how Gotenks was able to transform in Super Saiyan 3 is a mystery in itself), fucks around while using form against Super Boo. Gotenks achieving Super Saiyan 3 changes nothing about the dynamic in which Gotenks approaches his battle against Super Boo as he still retain his immaturity and desire for spectacle in combat over pragmatism. Which makes no sense because Gotenks already knows he working against the clock, so the audience aren't going to be fooled into thinking that Gotenks will kill Super Boo before the fusion expires. They've already seen how Gotenks fools around in battle, and his demeanour doesn't change even when Super Saiyan 3 comes into play and drastically shortens their time fused together.
Hell, if would been a better swerve if Gotenks actually killed Super Boo as Super Saiyan 3, given what context the narrative had provided for the circumstance of Super Saiyan 3 and Gotenks characterisation.
And it wasn't as if Gotenks burning out Super Saiyan 3 lead to the main cast having to drastically change their plans either, because Gohan was already training with the Zeta Sword and having his dormant power being unlocked while Gotenks as a Super Saiyan 3 was fighting Super Boo. It was Super Boo sensing Gohan's incredible power on Kaioshin's planet when Gohan powered up that served as more of catalyst for moving the plot forward than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks being a thing.
As mentioned before, it's only during the final battle that Super Saiyan 3 gives any foundation for coherent and good writing as it provides some of the foundation for Vegeta's epiphany in the climatic battle against Kid Boo. But even during that conflict, Super Saiyan 3 burning out against Kid Boo falls flat as a swerve given that:
a) It's already established Super Saiyan 3 is taxing on a mortal body
b) The form has already proven to be ineffective against Majin Boo twice
And the whole "The humans need the learn to fight for themselves" message is horribly shoehorned in when you take into consideration that either Gotenks or Gohan could have brought to Kaioshin's planet to fighting and easily Kid Boo. And how their inclusion in the final battle would have better served the main narrative theme a good chunk of the Majin Boo arc had revolved around: the new generation fighting their own battles. I mean, don't you think getting another crack at the whip against Majin Boo could have served as a great avenue for the character development Gotenks desperately needed and the personal resolution Gohan seemingly never got?
The good that Super Saiyan 3 brings the table narrative wise, it vastly outweighed by the bad. Mostly due to how haphazardly the form is integrated into the plot. It leads to bad swerves, zero character development concerning the characters it's used on, undercutting the major narrative theme which the arc was going for (the new generation need to learn how to fight on their own) in favour for a last minute narrative which had no build-up in the arc it's introduced in.
The Undying wrote: Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:12 amIt's almost like the intent was to emphasize why Freeza was the biggest obstacle they've ever faced because he always had an answer to every one of their "solutions". It's almost like the point was to establish tension instead of immediately stressing the strength utility of every given power-up, unlike the video games.
This is storytelling. This is plot structure. This isn't Budokai Tenkaichi 3. People need to stop thinking of transformations as badass power boosts and start thinking of them as narrative techniques, because that's what they are. Not everything needs to have truckloads of build-up or otherwise be "useful". Sometimes the author is deliberately going for the opposite effect, cases in point being Super Saiyan 3 and most of your other examples, and that's
fine.
I'm fully aware the intent was emphasise Freeza as the biggest obstacle, but that job was already very effectively by Krillin with a few lines of dialogue near the beginning of the arc. I never alluded to the idea that Freeza's transformations had to work under standard storytelling trope of "I Am Not Left-Handed". I just wanted the transformations to represent more of dramatic shift in Freeza's personality, rather than serving as an enabler of the power-up race the later stages of the Freeza arc had turned into. Nothing of any narrative significance would have been lost if Freeza jumped straight to his original/final form. Because what Freeza does in his final form does more to establish tension and the seemingly impossible wall that the main cast can't seem to overcome.
I'm not against the author wanting to go against what's established or the expectations of the audience. Those are ultimately neutral idea narrative devices. However, like with any narrative device, it's needs to be well executed. Just because you manged swerve the audience, doesn't mean I'm going to pat you on the back for it. It needs to be a
good swerve. A good subversion provide subtle clues and hints to the idea that what you expect may not actually happen, while not undercutting any major narrative themes that may be present. A bad subversion just arbitrarily decides to pull the rug from under the character(s) involved and/or write character(s) out of turn just to create a "gotcha!" moment. Shit like that is not only insulting to the audience, it's a waste of time.
I don't mind the idea of power-ups and/or transformations being treated are something to resolve the issue only for it to not do so. But that concept only is not acceptable storytelling. Because you still to need apply it in the narrative in a fashion that doesn't come across as obviously shoehorned in or unflattering regarding the characters involved in that kind of narrative.
