Is Dragon Ball creatively bankrupt at this point?

[JulieYBM]

I feel like there should really be a Vegeta story arc where he tries to get Shen Long to restore Trunks' timeline but Shen Long is unable to, so he and Gokuu go to the Zen-Ou and they agree to restore it only if he goes on a quest for them to retrieve a lost item (which turns out to be something stupid, like a Gameboy link cable so that the two kids can play together). That's probably enough material for three or four episodes. .

There is nothing frivolous about a link cable! I'd wage a few intergalactic wars myself for the chance to play Pokemon Red and Blue in the old way.

That's kind of the joke, though, most people would be like "Can't you just play this on the 3DS or something?"

[ABED]

I'm really confused. What is all this talk about Two Trunks's? I don't recall that beside Future Trunks and Chibi Trunks

Trunks is sent to live to another timeline, one before Zamasu gets all of his wishes and Beerus can erase him properly, a timeline where Trunks and Mai and Bulma are still alive and "our" Future Trunks will have to live with another version of himself and so will Mai.

While I don't care much for that ending, I'm more at odds with having Zeno come out of nowhere and pull the plug to the whole thing.

We don't see it, so why does this bother anyone?

The one big issue I have with the ending is instead of ending on Trunks defeating Zamasu in a way that's thematically and emotionally resonant, the story keeps going. It's anti-climactic.

[Koitsukai]

I'm really confused. What is all this talk about Two Trunks's? I don't recall that beside Future Trunks and Chibi Trunks

Trunks is sent to live to another timeline, one before Zamasu gets all of his wishes and Beerus can erase him properly, a timeline where Trunks and Mai and Bulma are still alive and "our" Future Trunks will have to live with another version of himself and so will Mai.

While I don't care much for that ending, I'm more at odds with having Zeno come out of nowhere and pull the plug to the whole thing.

We don't see it, so why does this bother anyone?

The one big issue I have with the ending is instead of ending on Trunks defeating Zamasu in a way that's thematically and emotionally resonant, the story keeps going. It's anti-climactic.

I agree, it takes away everything from Trunks who lost it all but managed to clean up his mess.

And I don't see any other way to go for Trunks, he coudn't stay with the main cast because the original manga ended with him NOT being there, so he can't stay around. And it doesn't prevent Trunks from becoming a Time Patroller, Shin's aide or anything really because like you said, we don't see the world he goes to live in.

[Mad Swami]

Trunks is sent to live to another timeline, one before Zamasu gets all of his wishes and Beerus can erase him properly, a timeline where Trunks and Mai and Bulma are still alive and "our" Future Trunks will have to live with another version of himself and so will Mai.

While I don't care much for that ending, I'm more at odds with having Zeno come out of nowhere and pull the plug to the whole thing.

We don't see it, so why does this bother anyone?

The one big issue I have with the ending is instead of ending on Trunks defeating Zamasu in a way that's thematically and emotionally resonant, the story keeps going. It's anti-climactic.

I agree, it takes away everything from Trunks who lost it all but managed to clean up his mess.

And I don't see any other way to go for Trunks, he coudn't stay with the main cast because the original manga ended with him NOT being there, so he can't stay around. And it doesn't prevent Trunks from becoming a Time Patroller, Shin's aide or anything really because like you said, we don't see the world he goes to live in.

It could have been cool if the universe seed from heroes was mentioned or something relating to his fate. I know it's not cannon but still

[Grimlock]

I feel like there should really be a Vegeta story arc where he tries to get Shen Long to restore Trunks' timeline but Shen Long is unable to, so he and Gokuu go to the Zen-Ou and they agree to restore it only if he goes on a quest for them to retrieve a lost item (which turns out to be something stupid, like a Gameboy link cable so that the two kids can play together). That's probably enough material for three or four episodes.

Anything to get rid of this crap ending would be welcome.

[Matches Malone]

Anything to get rid of this crap ending would be welcome.

They should've just let Trunks and Mai stay in the main timeline.

[ABED]

I feel like there should really be a Vegeta story arc where he tries to get Shen Long to restore Trunks' timeline but Shen Long is unable to, so he and Gokuu go to the Zen-Ou and they agree to restore it only if he goes on a quest for them to retrieve a lost item (which turns out to be something stupid, like a Gameboy link cable so that the two kids can play together). That's probably enough material for three or four episodes.

Anything to get rid of this crap ending would be welcome.

We don't see, so I don't know why you have such an issue with it.

[Thunderbird]

Also how can you criticize Hit having a similar ability to Guldo, but otherwise is a completely different character, but say that the Z movie villains are original? We literally got Frieza 2.0, Cell 2.0, and Buu 2.0 in those movies.

Well they are different characters. Hit is a different character, he ain't bad and has the best and most unique ability in Super but he's stopping stopping time briefly like Guldo so it's not a new idea.

In all honesty, I haven't read the manga yet. I just thought Moro was interesting from what I've read about him. But fair enough.

Moro shows exactly why Super hasn't had a god antagonist. Every part of him is taken from someone else.

Animal character in a time where there's been a whole bunch of animal characters like the Gods and Trio of Danger etc.

Old and wants the Dragon Balls to restore him like King Piccolo and Mechikabura.

Has a bunch of minions beneath him that he doesn't give a shit about and would kill them as look at them like Bojack or Frieza.

Has magic that mainly resorts to absorbing energy to grow stronger like Dr Gero or Cell.

Has now come to Earth to fight the Saiyans while the rest of the Dragon Team hold him off like Frieza and Resurrection F.

[ABED]

I don't think he's stopping time.

[JulieYBM]

Are new ideas neat? For me, as a author, I do like doing new things. I also like doing commonly done things. A new idea does not effort make. One can feel that a work is of poor quality but the prescribing of a hierarchy to determine quality is just ridiculous.

[Thunderbird]

Aside from the fact that half-assing movies is a serious thing, you're again missing the point that bringing back a new character and developing them a lot can be just as good as creating a new character in the first place, if not even better.

Yet is not creative which is what this thread is about. Characters are that shallow that adding a bit of development isn't that difficult.

So if the thread isn't specifically about Super, why did you have a problem with me "bringing down Z"?

Dragon Ball Z is old Dragon Ball and you're trying to highlight Z's problems to excuse Dragon Ball Supers problems, seemingly thinking that it gets a pass just because old Dragon Ball had its problems.

Toriyama basically created the character of Beerus as we know him today, so yes he pretty much created him.

"Pretty much created him" is him not actually creating him, which he didn't.

And no, Zamasu doesn't look like Shin at all. Their height, clothes, and hairstyle are all different.

That's delusional, a character being stretched length ways does not make for creativity.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

It's a colour palette swap with more hair.

Which they had already done with Freeza, so it wasn't anything original.

What was the episode number when mankind of Earth gave their energy towards Gokus Spirit Bomb that failed to defeat Frieza?

Also, I mean, your words are touching and all, but that Genkidama wasn't doing shit to Buu despite all the power that the humans poured into it.

Irrelevant.

How is that a minus? Are alternatives not allowed in a story?

They are allowed, but you said new elements only to name an alternative to an old element.

Rosé not only looks very different from Blue

Yeah in the same way that silver doesn't look like black or blue doesn't look like yellow lol.

Most certainly more creative than SS2

Yet still not at all creative in any way.

Lol, following that logic SS1 Goku was nothing creative either because it's literally just reused Goku with blonde hair.

You're getting desperate now.

Iirc, it was already mentioned before the Future Trunks arc that Destroyers and Kais are linked.

You recall wrong.

Many of them have unique design and abilities, such as U2 with their love abilities and magical girl transformations.

And was widely hated. The characters and that shemale transformation, especially Ribrianne was the most hated character in all of Dragon Ball Super by a mile.

Creating something that nobody likes isn't a positive.

Freeza made an alliance with Paragus and Broly because they all wanted revenge on Vegeta and Freeza admired them for their resourcefulness and strength. Also Freeza was brought back by Beerus and Whis after he saved the universe in the ToP, if Gogeta killed him he might have disappointed Beerus and you'd be complaining that they brought him back thrice just to die again on Earth.

Thus proving how little of a story at all. "Frieza wants revenge against the Saiyans so goes to Earth".... So just like the movie right before it except this time he took a retarded Broly who attacked them...just because. Yes I would be complaining because it'd yet again be the same thing. The remedy then being that they didn't kill him so just let the guy who almost caused the destruction of Earth go as if he were a nuisance like Team Rocket.

Beerus wouldn't have gave a shit if Gogeta has killed Frieza either.

[Thunderbird]

I don't think he's stopping time.

He's stopping time for everyone but himself. That's how he's able to attack within that time. It's just skipping time from other peoples perspective.

[SupremeKai25]

Yet is not creative which is what this thread is about. Characters are that shallow that adding a bit of development isn't that difficult.

It is not creative according to whom? There are plenty of cases in fiction when a former villain was brought back and developed in a very creative way.

Also why are you saying that those characters introduced in Z are shallow? I thought you were trying to prove that Z is much more creative than Super?

Dragon Ball Z is old Dragon Ball and you're trying to highlight Z's problems to excuse Dragon Ball Supers problems, seemingly thinking that it gets a pass just because old Dragon Ball had its problems.

No, I am highlighting how your complaints about Super can be used against Z too. Also, because as you said, this thread does not refer to Super alone, so why can't I answer with "Actually, Dragon Ball has been creatively bankrupt since Z"?

"Pretty much created him" is him not actually creating him, which he didn't.

It doesn't matter, because the Beerus that appears in the story is vastly different from the Beerus that was planned as being this weird villain who spreads virus through mankind. How is it not his credit when he completely reimagined the character?

That's delusional, a character being stretched length ways does not make for creativity.

Him being taller is proof that you cannot confuse the two of them. And yes, as those two images show, they are completely different. Different height, different hairstyle, different facial structure, different outfit, they are not similar at all. Following your logic then Vegeta is just a carbon copy of Goku with longer hair and shorter height.

He's a Kai, of course he's not going to be a weird monster with 6 eyes and 2 mouths, he's going to have the main racial traits of Kais. Even the other Supreme Kais are not that different by the way, some might have squinted eyes or different body shape, but the general design and outfit are the same.

I actually love this, I find this to be a very nice breath of fresh air. In Z, Cell and Buu look like weird monsters of destruction, it's nice to have a more grounded design for a villain

What was the episode number when mankind of Earth gave their energy towards Gokus Spirit Bomb that failed to defeat Frieza?

Why does it matter if it was mankind or the population of Namek and surrounding planets? He still tried to use the power of the weak to defeat someone who considered himself an invincible of destruction, the basic concept is the same.

Irrelevant.

Not really. If their point was to show that humans together can defeat a destructive force like Buu, then they wouldn't have had a divine dragon save the day. Because yes they most likely would have LOST without Dende's last wish, humanity's strength or not.

They are allowed, but you said new elements only to name an alternative to an old element.

An alternative can be a new element.

Yeah in the same way that silver doesn't look like black or blue doesn't look like yellow lol.

Indeed. An argument you can't make for SS2 I'm afraid.

Yet still not at all creative in any way.

It achieved its purpose of showcasing Black's elegance and beauty and at the same time symbolising how he is deadly behind that beauty. And yes, it was pretty creative, because rose isn't usually a color you'd associate with the main villain of a story, but Black managed to make rose look terrifying.

You're getting desperate now.

Why? You said Zamasu is not creative because he's just "green Shin". So SS1 is not creative because it's just Goku with yellow hair, and the entire transformation process is shit because DB already played the "Krillin died so Goku gets angry" card.

You recall wrong.

I mean, okay, it's not that useful if you don't show me where it was first stated....

And was widely hated. The characters and that shemale transformation, especially Ribrianne was the most hated character in all of Dragon Ball Super by a mile.

Creating something that nobody likes isn't a positive.

I'd ask you where you got those statistics and how can you know for certainty that it wasn't just a case of a very vocal minority.

I am quite confused actually, because I remember seeing a lot of people hyped for her arrival in Xenoverse 2 and particularly praising her unique and creative kit.

I was confused earlier too when you said that Caulifla, Kale, and Kefla are hated, because the crowd went wild when she was revealed in FighterZ.

Thus proving how little of a story at all. "Frieza wants revenge against the Saiyans so goes to Earth"

I do wonder why he'd want revenge. I think it might have something to do with the fact that he was obliterated twice by Saiyans in the last 10 years.

So just like the movie right before it except this time he took a retarded Broly who attacked them...just because.

Because the last time he tried to engage them himself he had his ass kicked and was sent straight back to Hell. So this time he tried to defeat them by using a very strong Saiyan as his pawn, a Saiyan who hated the House of Vegeta nonetheless.

Yes I would be complaining because it'd yet again be the same thing. The remedy then being that they didn't kill him so just let the guy who almost caused the destruction of Earth go as if he were a nuisance like Team Rocket.

Beerus wouldn't have gave a shit if Gogeta has killed Frieza either.

Beerus owes a lot to Freeza, since his role in the ToP was vital in the victory of U7 and salvation of the entire multiverse (if Jiren won, he might have made a selfish wish and caused Zeno to erase everything). So yes, even if Freeza committed terrible atrocities in the past, he still saved the multiverse with his actions, and that can't be ignored.

[Thunderbird]

It is not creative according to whom?

Anyone with standards.

Also why are you saying that those characters introduced in Z are shallow? I thought you were trying to prove that Z is much more creative than Super?

Those two things don't correlate.

No, I am highlighting Z's problems to prove your double standards.

You're still completely the missing the point at hand to be able to do that. I don't think you even know what the actual point is now, probably from you breaking down each word into its own paragraph.

Also, because as you said it, this thread does not refer to Super alone, so why can't I answer with "Actually, Dragon Ball has been creatively bankrupt since Z"?

You can, I'm just telling you why you feel you need to.

How is it not his credit when he completely reimagined the character?

Because it's not his character, it's his own version of another person's character. He re-wrote the script based on someone's else script in the same way.

Following your logic then Vegeta is just a carbon copy of Goku with longer hair and shorter height.

Vegeta isn't a colour palette swap of Goku like what Zamasu is with Shin.

Why does it matter if it was mankind or the population of Namek and surrounding planets?

I didn't ask that. What episode was it where humans on Earth banded together and have their energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb to defeat Frieza. What episode number?

An alternative can be a new element.

But not yours.

Indeed. An argument you can't make for SS2 I'm afraid.

I wasn't making an argument for Super Saiyan 2. I never mentioned that, you randomly brought that up to put Dragon Ball Z down.

It achieved its purpose of showcasing Black's elegance and beauty and at the same time symbolising how he is deadly behind that beauty. And yes, it was pretty creative, because rose isn't usually a color you'd associate with the main villain of a story, but Black managed to make rose look terrifying.

Yes that's all very nice and deep and all....but it's still just a Pink Super Saiyan Blue no matter how hard you try to dress it up.

Why? You said Zamasu is not creative because he's just "green Shin". So SS1 is not creative because it's just Goku with yellow hair, and the entire transformation process is shit because DB already played the "Krillin died so Goku gets angry" card.

I shouldn't have to explain to you why Super Saiyan isn't like Zamasu just been a green tall Shin.

I mean, okay, it's not that useful if you don't show me where it was first stated....

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/I%27 ... Grand_Zeno!

I'd ask you where you got those statistics and how can you know for certainty that it wasn't just a case of a very vocal minority.

You know full well that people hated Ribrianne and that whole group. Don't pretend otherwise.

So this time he tried to defeat them by using a very strong Saiyan as his pawn, a Saiyan who hated the House of Vegeta nonetheless.

So it's the same thing again but with a different spin. Coming to Earth to get revenge on the Saiyans but this time with someone else doing the fighting on his behalf. Now this Moro arc is the same thing again but it's a character instead of Frieza.

So yes, even if Freeza committed terrible atrocities in the past, he still saved the multiverse with his actions, and that can't be ignored.

He wouldn't care about that. A promise was made to revive him if he helped them win the Tournament, the promise was kept. If Gogeta killed Frieza afterwards because Frieza was responsible for almost destroying everyone including the planet Beerus gets the food he likes on, then Beerus wouldn't have been bothered in the least.

[SupremeKai25]

Anyone with standards.

Not sure I agree with that, because I have standards and I enjoy seeing a villain come back if they are developed in an interesting way. Better that than having a one-note villain with a generic personality and design.

Those two things don't correlate.

I mean, you said that Super did not do anything creative because it just added some personality to shallow villains, but considering it's brought back villains from Z....

You're still completely the missing the point at hand to be able to do that. I don't think you even know what the actual point is now, probably from you breaking down each word into its own paragraph.

The funny thing is that you are doing exactly the same.

Also, why can't I do that? It's a discussion forum, if you claimed something then I can quote that.

Because it's not his character, it's his own version of another person's character. He re-wrote the script based on someone's else script in the same way.

But he still made the character his own through his contribution, because the Beerus who became famous is the cat god who loves food, not the weird creature that infects people with virus.

Plus, why is it a problem if it wasn't Toriyama who came up with him? I mean, he's not the only one who is allowed to write Dragon Ball.

Vegeta isn't a colour palette swap of Goku like what Zamasu is with Shin.

The outfit is actually different, so no it's not just a colour palette swap. Since Shin is a full Supreme Kai he has a different outfit, whereas Zamasu has the outfit of the Supreme Kai apprentinces, like Kibito.

I didn't ask that. What episode was it where humans on Earth banded together and have their energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb to defeat Frieza. What episode number?

But there is no episode number, that's the point, because he did not use earthling energy. The point however is that it doesn't make a difference if he used someone else's energy instead of earthling's energy, because the basic thematic point was still the same.

But not yours.

The introduction of an alternative to something that was done in the past is a new element in the plot. For example, the Namekian dragon balls are a new element introduced in the Freeza arc, it's not like they are nothing new because you could already summon a divine dragon that can grant you any wish you want. Same thing with the Super Dragon Balls or the black Dragon Balls from GT.

I wasn't making an argument for Super Saiyan 2. I never mentioned that, you randomly brought that up to put Dragon Ball Z down.

No, I brought that up because you were acting like Super started the trend of transformations that are "not original" (and I use the term vaguely, because even a simple hair color change can still be creative, for various reasons -- maybe it has a symbolic meaning to it, or a deep and interesting background).

Yes that's all very nice and deep and all....but it's still just a Pink Super Saiyan Blue no matter how hard you try to dress it up.

Then I don't see why Super Saiyan 1 is such an iconic transformation that went down in history as one of the most famous moments in Dragon Ball, when it's literally just Goku with yellow hair.

You can't just ignore the thematic and symbolic meaning of a transformation...

I shouldn't have to explain to you why Super Saiyan isn't like Zamasu just been a green tall Shin.

Why is it different? Is it not just a version of Goku with a different hair colour? Why are you so quick to dismiss Rosé's symbolic meaning because "it's just Goku with pink hair", but are not willing to do the same thing with SS1?

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/I%27 ... Grand_Zeno!

Many thanks. We can add that to the list of plot points the Future Trunks arc introduced. That plot point was pretty significant in hindsight, because it means Beerus came so close to dying during the Buu arc.

You know full well that people hated Ribrianne and that whole group. Don't pretend otherwise.

I know no such thing. I mean, sure, I have seen several people on the internet complain about Ribrianne when Super was airing, but I don't know for certain what to make of that. For all I know, it was just a very vocal minority.

So it's the same thing again but with a different spin.

A different spin that I found very creative, yes. It shows that Freeza has become more cautious. In RoF he was blinded by vengeance and rushed into the fight without having planned very well his invasion or his mastery over his form, and that ultimately proved to be his downfall. So this time he doesn't want to repeat the same mistake again and decides to use his trump card instead. He also sent his weakest servants to gather the Dragon Balls so that they would not get noticed by the Z Fighters, once again proving that he has become more patient and calculating. Compare that to RoF, where he literally blew up a city as soon as he landed on the planet to make his presence known to everyone.

It's also interesting how Freeza made an alliance with Paragus despite his hatred for Saiyans. It shows how he is willing to set aside his differences if it means getting revenge on Vegeta. I suppose that's a trait he learned during the ToP, when he was forced to fight side by side with Goku, the man who killed him, in order to save his universe from erasure.

He wouldn't care about that. A promise was made to revive him if he helped them win the Tournament, the promise was kept. If Gogeta killed Frieza afterwards because Frieza was responsible for almost destroying everyone including the planet Beerus gets the food he likes on, then Beerus wouldn't have been bothered in the least.

It's not surprising. Gogeta is part Goku and he has no problem letting Freeza go. He knows that Freeza will not change his evil ways, he's known that since the ToP arc, but at the same time he is not worried because he knows Freeza is no match for him. That's why Freeza is now seeking to recruit Broly again to fill the power gap between him and the Saiyans.

[ABED]

"Pretty much created him" is him not actually creating him, which he didn't.

He did. The original character was so vastly different that it bears little to no resemblance to what was previously created. At most, there was a name. It sounds a lot like the "who really created Batman" issue.

[WittyUsername]

Beerus and Whis were certainly unique and fresh characters when they were introduced, but I’ve gotten tired of them at this point. Their food shtick got old really fast and I think they’ve robbed stories like Resurrection ‘F’ of any sort of tension.

[ABED]

Beerus and Whis were certainly unique and fresh characters when they were introduced, but I’ve gotten tired of them at this point. Their food shtick got old really fast and I think they’ve robbed stories like Resurrection ‘F’ of any sort of tension.

Pretty sure there was no tension to be had the second they decided Freeza was the villain of the movie.

[Thunderbird]

Better that than having a one-note villain with a generic personality and design.

But not better than having a new original interesting character with a good personality and design, something they can no longer do.

I mean, you said that Super did not do anything creative because it just added some personality to shallow villains, but considering it's brought back villains from Z....

Is what makes it uncreative. Two movies in a row, not cheap half assed movies, two event movies by Toriyama had to bring back villains from Z. Yes that's uncreative, especially as they didn't add to Frieza's personality in Resurrection F.

Also, why can't I do that? It's a discussion forum, if you claimed something then I can quote that.

You can, but it just means I'm only skimming through and giving half assed answers.

Plus, why is it a problem if it wasn't Toriyama who came up with him?

Because it shows how uncreative the man is now that the three movies he's worked on has one new character he didn't come up with, an old character and an old character he didn't come up with.

But there is no episode number, that's the point, because he did not use earthling energy.

Well there you go. I never said taking energy from another living being was the creative part in my breakdown of what happened.

For example, the Namekian dragon balls are a new element introduced in the Freeza arc

Which played a significant part of the plot and the difference in the Dragon Balls and how they were to be used when compared to the other Dragon Balls played a part in the story of significance.

The Time Ring did not. Like the device used by Xeno Pan in the last SDBH episode, it's just a different way of doing the same thing.

No, I brought that up because you were acting like Super started the trend of transformations that are "not original"

I never said that. Super Saiyan Grade 2 was just Super Saiyan with bigger muscles and Grade 3 even bigger still. The point was that Dragon Ball had transformations that were original too. Dragon Ball Super does not. It's either a red or silver colour palette swap or a blue one or another blue one except darker.

Why is it different? Is it not just a version of Goku with a different hair colour? Why are you so quick to dismiss Rosé's symbolic meaning because "it's just Goku with pink hair", but are not willing to do the same thing with SS1?

There's no symbolic meaning to it, you're trying to find something deep out of something that's shallow. It can be beautiful or whatever but it is still just a colour palette swap of a colour palette swap.

There was an actual story related reason behind Goku turning Super Saiyan. Goku Black has Pink hair to sell merchandise.

Many thanks. We can add that to the list of plot points the Future Trunks arc introduced.

A plot point that boiled down to "We need Goku Black to kill off of all the Gods but he ain't stronger than a God of Destruction so let's just have it so that when he kills a Kai the Destroyer dies automatically."

Compare that to RoF, where he literally blew up a city as soon as he landed on the planet to make his presence known to everyone.

Or giving Sorbet the ring as a contingency plan to take down Goku in case his plans didn't turn out right. So calculating.

It's not surprising. Gogeta is part Goku and he has no problem letting Freeza go. He knows that Freeza will not change his evil ways, he's known that since the ToP arc, but at the same time he is not worried because he knows Freeza is no match for him.

But he is a match for him. Vegeta even told him in the movie about how he's a threat. It's not that Goku isn't worried, he's just an idiot. Frieza brought someone to Earth who could not only have killed them but killed everyone and he just lets him go.

It's bad writing and Frieza should never have even been involved in the movie but he was because he's popular.

[Matches Malone]

One Piece and other series know how to use its characters in battle instead of shoehorning them into endless repetitive Tournaments.

Those series have 2 things in their favor: 1- they have one writer and 2- they have a clear vision for what they're doing. A more fair comparison would be with Toriyama's original manga as it was also made by one writer with a clear vision. Modern DB on the other hand has everyone and the kitchen sink writing it with the vision of throwing random sh*t at the wall to see what sticks. Despite Super being a continuation to the original DB, it couldn't be more different.

Toriyama, the creator of Dragon Ball, reduced to just going along with the terrible and lazy ideas given to him by someone else.

This has been his role since he ended the manga back in 1995. There seems to be a misconception about Toriyama's role in the franchise now. Toriyama isn't the only writer involved with DB, he's not even the main one. His role now is to simply help others bring their ideas (or lack there of) to life.

It's worth noting that the powers at be aren't the only ones to blame for DB's lack of creativity, the fans are. A Broly movie is as unoriginal of an idea as you can get, yet not only is it the highest grossing DB and Toei movie by a wide margin, it almost made it into the top 10 highest grossing anime movies of all time. The DB fan base for some reason likes the same thing to be constantly brought back, as proven by Broly and Super as a whole, so they're also to blame for what's going on.