Can Anyone Give Me Some Clarification on Cell?

[DaRealChrono]

Alright, well I've long been a fan of Dragon Ball like most here, but one thing that always got me was Cell. I don't know how it was presented in the Japanese version of the Anime, but the dub either didn't explain it correctly or couldn't.

Which brings me to my question.

I know Cell is from the future, but as far as I can see he is not from Mirai Trunks' (The one in the storyline, obviously) time-line, and he can't be or the Mirai Trunks we see in the series would not be alive. That being said, from what I gathered, it seems like Cell is from Mirai Trunks' time-line, but for the same reason as above, that is impossible.

In the series it shows the two time-machines, which must mean Cell came from another time-line, not of the present or of the future of the present Mirai Trunks. He came to Earth a year before Mirai Trunks made his appearance as well, so does that mean the time-line that Cell came from is the result of the time-line Mirai Trunks set forward by coming to the present? If so, why was Cell able to kill him so easily, when at the end of Cell Saga Mirai Trunks goes back to the future and makes short work of Cell? Cell said there were no Androids in his time, so that must mean Mirai Trunks had to destroy them? To dumb it down, what is the explanation behind Cell, and his time?

Sorry if this all seems really confusing, but it's really confusing. Anyone who could help, I'd greatly appreciate it, lol.

[Kid Trunks]

This is my attempt at explaining. Basically theres 3 time-lines that concern us:

1 - Trunks' time-line(the true original time-line) where everyone dies,

2 - The time-line which Trunks goes back to, helping the Z fighters beat the androids,

The 3rd time-line is created when Cell leaves time-line No.2, after killing Trunks (who is weaker than the Future Trunks we know, because he never trained in the hyperbolic time chamber). When Cell leaves this time-line, he creates time-line No.3 (the time-line we see in the anime that we sort of consider the "true" time-line.), hence causing the new androids 16, 19 and 20 to exist, and androids 17 and 18 to be more powerful (for some reason...).

Hows that?

[DaRealChrono]

So basically the Cell comes from the time-line that we knew before the beginning of the Android Arc? Sorry if this was obvious in your post, I just want to be clear on this, it's been bothering me for some time now, lol.

[Xyex]

Cell is from the "Original" timeline. In that you've got the events of the History of Trunks special followed by the return of Trunks from the past (the "Unseen" timeline where Cell didn't appear). Cell then arrives and kills Trunks and goes back in time creating the "Series" timeline which results in a Trunks that knows of Cell and is able to beat him creating an "Alternate Future" timeline.

[Thanos6]

Someone should post up that Daizenshuu 7 page...

[Xyex]

Someone should post up that Daizenshuu 7 page...

That Daizneshuu page should be ignored as it is blatantly incorrect and impossible.

[Herms]

Someone should post up that Daizenshuu 7 page...

Here's TripleRach's translation of it.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Someone should post up that Daizenshuu 7 page...

That Daizneshuu page should be ignored as it is blatantly incorrect and impossible.

The only error it has is the fact that history 4 has a Cell Game, when Cell shouldn't have been present in that timeline. Everything else checks out, doesn't it?

[Xyex]

Someone should post up that Daizenshuu 7 page...

That Daizneshuu page should be ignored as it is blatantly incorrect and impossible.

The only error it has is the fact that history 4 has a Cell Game, when Cell shouldn't have been present in that timeline. Everything else checks out, doesn't it?

It does. But it's a lot easier to say "Ignore the Daizenshuu timelines" than to go "Ignore the 4th Daizenshuu timeline because that one alone simply doesn't work because (rest of sentence here)".

[SSj_Rambo]

In DBZ we see the normal timeline known as TL1, Future Trunks is from a timeline farther in the future known as TL2, and Cell (the one that starts the Cell Games) is from a timeline even farther in the futre than Future Trunk's timeline, this is TL3. These are the timelines where all of the influencial characters come from.

Here is where it gets confusing: There are more timelines, but they only influence TL2, TL3 and each other. Here is a visual diagram made by laserkid that should help clarify things, hopefully.


*Note: There is already a thread on the DBZ timelines found here ( http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=137 )

[Xyex]

I still take issue with that numbering system, and most others. There's a much more logical way of listing the timelines. Chronologically.

Timeline One ~ The Original Timeline: This is the first and original timeline unaltered (far as anyone knows) by timetravel. Goku dies of the Heart Virus, Trunks goes back in time to create Timeline Two, Cell kills Trunks and goes back in time to create Timeline Three.

Timeline Two ~ The Unseen Timeline: This timeline is never actually seen but its known to exist and is, somewhat, refrenced. This is the timeline where Trunks appears in the past to warn of the Androids but Cell doesn't appear.

Timeline Three ~ The Series Timeline: Self-explanatory. Timeline presented in the series with Trunks, Cell, the Cell Games, etc. Created by the Cell of the first timeline after he killed Trunks.

Timeline Four ~ Alternate Future Timeline: This is created a little by Cell and a little by Trunks. This is the timeline created when the Trunks of the third timeline tried to return home. This is where Trunks kills both the Androids and Cell.

[SSj_Rambo]

I still take issue with that numbering system, and most others. There's a much more logical way of listing the timelines. Chronologically.

Timeline One ~ The Original Timeline: This is the first and original timeline unaltered (far as anyone knows) by timetravel. Goku dies of the Heart Virus, Trunks goes back in time to create Timeline Two, Cell kills Trunks and goes back in time to create Timeline Three.

Timeline Two ~ The Unseen Timeline: This timeline is never actually seen but its known to exist and is, somewhat, refrenced. This is the timeline where Trunks appears in the past to warn of the Androids but Cell doesn't appear.

Timeline Three ~ The Series Timeline: Self-explanatory. Timeline presented in the series with Trunks, Cell, the Cell Games, etc. Created by the Cell of the first timeline after he killed Trunks.

Timeline Four ~ Alternate Future Timeline: This is created a little by Cell and a little by Trunks. This is the timeline created when the Trunks of the third timeline tried to return home. This is where Trunks kills both the Androids and Cell.

That's another good aproach to the question, thanks for the extra perspective!

[Onikage725]

Not to add to the confusion, but wouldn't Trunks' destruction of Cell create a duplicate version of the "Unseen Timeline?" Cell wouldn't have the opportunity to go back, but that timeline would have seen #19 and 20 the same as the main storyline's timeline (#3). Then again, we don't know that they didn't appear in the unseen timeline.
Meh, I dunno... this quantum physics stuff is confusing. I could just be referring to the main series timeline, or there could be a timeline floating out there similar to the unseen one except that it would be a Cell-less version of the main story (as opposed to a Cell-less version of Trunks' altered timeline history).

Either way, has anyone ever thought about Cell's paradox? He creates his own destruction. He kills Trunks, then jumps back to a point where Trunks was still present in the timeline. He sets in motion events that cause Trunks to grow ridiculously powerful, beyond what he can handle in his base form.

And how does Cell kill Trunks initially? Trunks was strong enough to take out both 17 and 18. There weren't enough humans left in that timeline to juice Cell up to the level where he took down Piccolo and 17, I wouldn't think. He must have taken him by surprise. I really never liked the anime depiction of this, where Trunks just runs at him without even powering up and gets taken out in seconds.

[desirecampbell]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mGuHzVkLlno

I think this explains it the best, and I've yet to have anyone show me anything better.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Timeline Four ~ Alternate Future Timeline: This is created a little by Cell and a little by Trunks. This is the timeline created when the Trunks of the third timeline tried to return home. This is where Trunks kills both the Androids and Cell.

I don't think Trunks created another timeline when he returned home. His machine can probably lock on to specific timeline, which is how he travels back and forth between his original timeline and the series' timeline.

[Onikage725]

Yes, but we still have to account for the fact that Trunks jumps to this point initially, kills 17 and 18, and is in turn killed by Cell. Cell then leaves the timeline. So Trunks' original "History of Trunks" timeline, at some point, continued on without Trunks, Cell, or the Artificial Humans. Then, after the events Cell's interference in the main timeline, Trunks turns the tables on Cell (this time armed with the paradoxical knowledge of his own death, as told by Cell in the "past," as well as advanced power gained from having to train to fight Cell's Perfect state) and thus alters that world's history by.... well by not dying. This leaves a Z Senshi presence in that world that would have been absent. Without going too deep into the realm of fanfiction, that world with Trunks in it would have a very powerful defender who could also train pupils and father naturally powerful hybrid offspring. The world without Trunks (the Unseen) would have essentially reverted to the balance it had prior to Namekian and Saiyan interference.

Did that make sense?

[desirecampbell]

Yes, but we still have to account for the fact that Trunks jumps to this point initially, kills 17 and 18, and is in turn killed by Cell. Cell then leaves the timeline. So Trunks' original "History of Trunks" timeline, at some point, continued on without Trunks, Cell, or the Artificial Humans. Then, after the events Cell's interference in the main timeline, Trunks turns the tables on Cell (this time armed with the paradoxical knowledge of his own death, as told by Cell in the "past," as well as advanced power gained from having to train to fight Cell's Perfect state) and thus alters that world's history by.... well by not dying. This leaves a Z Senshi presence in that world that would have been absent. Without going too deep into the realm of fanfiction, that world with Trunks in it would have a very powerful defender who could also train pupils and father naturally powerful hybrid offspring. The world without Trunks (the Unseen) would have essentially reverted to the balance it had prior to Namekian and Saiyan interference.

Did that make sense?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mGuHzVkLlno

I think this explains it the best, and I've yet to have anyone show me anything better.

I'm pretty confident I explain it all there.

[Onikage725]

You'll have to forgive me Desire. I'm stuck being a "sitter" at work, and our computer's have youtube locked out. I used savetube and a proxy to download it, but the audio is out on this comp. Sooo I'm using media-convert to make an mp4 out of it to put on my ipod. Tell me that's not dedication.

[KillerCory]

Nice timeline desirecampbell. (Best I've seen yet)

However, there is one thing I did notice...

At 1:21 you draw the first timeline that Cell exists in, so what does Cell do it that timeline? With everyone killed by the Androids shouldn't he have absorbed them? Thus leading to Earth's destruction and Trunks never going back to the timeline drawn at 1:52?

Other than that everything is clear!

[desirecampbell]

At 1:21 you draw the first timeline that Cell exists in, so what does Cell do it that timeline? With everyone killed by the Androids shouldn't he have absorbed them? Thus leading to Earth's destruction and Trunks never going back to the timeline drawn at 1:52?

You mean the timeline Cell comes from? In the timeline Cell comes from, Trunks has already defeated #17 and #18 (I didn't mention that in the video, I should update that). This is the timeline Cell tells us about in the anime (he searched for the jinzoningen but found nothing, then found Trunks and stole his ship).