Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:04 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:34 am They could mention the manga just to promote it and get people to read it, but they don't even wanna do that. Did Toyo piss someone off? :lol:
The film was scripted four years ago and the storylines are unrelated. The audiences of the comic and the film are completely different, too.

Jesus Christ boys, the films will acknowledge the Moro and Granola battles once they have time to adapt them into films or television series' themselves. I understand that you think a comic book beat you up and stole your lunch money but good gravy, it's pretty blatant that they wouldn't ignore the comic literally being co-written by Toriyama Akira.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:24 am

There's a difference between talking about and evangelizing the things you love vs. criticizing the things you dislike. Both of those approaches are welcome and encouraged, but the extreme tribalism regularly on display is... very weird, very off-putting, and needs to end.

It also speaks to the prevalence of mistranslation from certain sources in the larger fandom/community, and as an extension of that, a lack of understanding trickling down as to how these things get made, who makes them, and what the processes and procedures actually are.

We already know exactly what the timeframe for conception on this film was, how Granolla hadn't been conceived of yet, who exactly in terms of Toriyama vs. Toyotaro wrote story arc outlines and contributed what for the Moro and Granolla arcs in the manga, etc. etc. etc. Clearly we need to do a better job here at Kanzenshuu; it's obvious that our regular podcasts on the topic aren't enough, and that a longer, sourced article may be necessary (and even then, who knows?).

Please be curious, please ask questions, please share your genuine feelings (thoughts/hopes/dreams/concerns) about these products, and so on and so forth...

... but please just stop being so goddamn weird about it, some of you?
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:33 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:34 am They could mention the manga just to promote it and get people to read it, but they don't even wanna do that. Did Toyo piss someone off? :lol:
No, and in fact this is all standard procedure. The folks at Toei, like any other major animation company that handles long-running franchises (such as Bones or Pierrot), are not in the business of promoting material they haven't adapted yet themselves.

They've got tickets to sell, not audiences to confuse. It doesn't mean that the manga "didn't happen".
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by super michael » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:59 am

Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:33 am
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:34 am They could mention the manga just to promote it and get people to read it, but they don't even wanna do that. Did Toyo piss someone off? :lol:
No, and in fact this is all standard procedure. Toei, like any other major animation company that handles long-running franchises (such as Bones or Pierrot), are not in the business of promoting material they haven't adapted yet themselves.

They've got tickets to sell, not audiences to confuse. It doesn't mean that the manga "didn't happen".
Naruto Shippuden didn't end until March 23, 2017, while The Last: Naruto the Movie came out on December 6, 2014. The movie didn't ignores what happens in the manga, even though the anime still didn't end. The anime was way behind.

Boruto: Naruto the Movie came out on August 7, 2015, which again doesn't ignore the manga, even though the anime was still way behind.

However DBS Super Superheroes is outright ignoring manga content such as Gohan not training after the ToP. We have statement from both that Gohan trains in the manga and in the anime, but somehow in this movie he gone back to not training.
The bios are ignoring Moro completely.

These movies are supposed to be canon, yet only DBS is the one that ignores manga content.

So how is it confusing for Dragon Ball audience but not Naruto audience?

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:16 am

Naruto was a sole-authorial creation that ran in the tent-pole magazine, Weekly Shonen Jump, with animation projects from Studio Pierrot and TV Tokyo (notably not Toei Animation and Fuji TV).

Dragon Ball Super is a decades-removed twilight years sequel series and remains a three-way split production (anime/manga/movies) from multiple cooks in the kitchen which isn't on the airwaves anymore and whose manga has always run in a supplemental, lower-circulation magazine.

(Boruto is admittedly its own beast with a convoluted history, but it started immediately after its birth series, and ran in Weekly Shonen Jump, even though it as a series was only printed monthly, up until it got moved over to V-Jump... what, two summers ago?)

These kinds of comparisons aren't even apples and oranges; it's more like apples and couches.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by capsulecorp » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:03 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:01 pm What I noticed from the Discussion threads on this forum from back then is that the matter was more of "Super vs. GT" than "Super Anime vs. Manga". I don't think most people cared about the manga or even knew that there was a manga concurrent with the anime (since it was always behind the anime), but I definitely saw plenty of debates on whether the ongoing anime was better or worse than GT... even down to the animation levels. For example I remember seeing people claiming that Goku vs. Kefla was a rip-off of GT just because some shots are similar to Goku vs. Super 17.
Yes, I think the thing that may have changed more recently is that, since the anime has stopped production, there's some anger and jealously directed toward the manga. "Why do they get to continue to have fun??", that type of thing.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Jord » Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:19 pm

It isn't that complicated. The percentage of people that read the manga compared to who watched the show/movies is extremely small. TOEI caters to the biggest audience. Suddenly seeing or acknowledging Moro or Granolah only confuses those who don't read the manga.
Personally I don't care, as long as it's entertaining.
If you want to nitpick you can actually point to examples how Super doesn't line up with Z in the first place and wonder if making a midquel was the way to go. That however is a completely different discussion.

Characters aging is mostly done to sell new merchandise and drum up more interest in the movie. I really doubt that the creators of the movie care too much about timelines and whether it fits in with the manga. With the focus shifting to Piccolo and Gohan we can already see that the parts that Goten and Trunks have will be minimal at best. (Which is a step up from the series at least)

And yeah Gohan lost his mojo again. Seems like the character trait for him.
Has potential->unleashes potential->loses mojo is the cycle that he seems to be going through a lot.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by fleahop » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:09 pm

Who do we think the main audience for this movie is?

Do you think they're targeting the DBS anime fans or Heroes fans or DBS: Broly fans or some cross section when they began production?

I'm very interested because I don't feel as though I'm necessarily the intended audience but I'm SUPER pumped for the movie anyway.

Who you guys think they are intending to be the audience for this movie?
Movie 1/Dead Zone >>> DBS Broly

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:51 pm

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I believe the movie will avoid stepping onto whatever the manga is doing, probably one of the reasons why Goku is being left out is so they could tell a story while having the manga develop as scheduled, and just not care about their progress and do their own thing with other characters.

Goku won't need to use his FP, that at the time the movie started to be written, wasn't even available to him.
Gohan focusing on his studies does not mean he has never trained again since the ToP, actually he came straight from work when he fought 7-3.
The movie taking place on Earth after the fight with Broly also doesn't mean nothing happened in between. It's that vague on purpose and I doubt they are creating unncessary contradictions like "Gohan, you haven't trained at all since the ToP", "Oh, yeah, ever since Broly nothing actually happened, it's been really boring over here". I mean, probably stuff like that shall and will be avoided. If not, then Toyo would feel really bad lol.

Sure, they probably will have some irrelevant statements like "Oh, I haven't seen you since PAST EVENT THAT CONTRADICTS SOME MANGA ENCOUNTER".

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Alruneia » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:36 pm

fleahop wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:09 pm Who do we think the main audience for this movie is?

Do you think they're targeting the DBS anime fans or Heroes fans or DBS: Broly fans or some cross section when they began production?

I'm very interested because I don't feel as though I'm necessarily the intended audience but I'm SUPER pumped for the movie anyway.

Who you guys think they are intending to be the audience for this movie?
The way I see it, at least, is that the target audience is kids and teens, mainly boys, and they're not going for any kind of "hardcore fan audience" at all, they probably only expect their audience to know that DBS as a whole, plus maybe DBS Broly in particular, exists. The casual audience is way larger and almost always more profitable to target, after all. They probably see it as a great bonus if more "hardcore" fans are interested too, but they don't see it as a requirement.
By the way, based on that, it's perfectly reasonable for them to not really say anything about the manga-only stuff, and it wouldn't be shocking if anime stuff was also glossed over or "ignored", as they just want to have as little required reading/watching as possible so that the movie works for as many people as possible. It doesn't carry any deeper meaning than that.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Skar » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:43 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:04 amThe film was scripted four years ago and the storylines are unrelated. The audiences of the comic and the film are completely different, too.
I was thinking that the manga arcs could be treated as a midquel (within a midquel!) since the follow-up story was written before them. It's kind of like EoZ being written decades ago and nothing eventful happening since the Buu saga but now all these stories are taking place before it.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Super Murjin » Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:12 pm

Read this link

“Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero” Panel Hosted at New York Comic Con"
October 7th 2021

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2021/10/07/d ... comic-con/

people seem to forget about this :wtf:

Of note was the Q&A session with pre-selected questions from fans to the panelists. Below are the questions with a summary of the response, which are not transcribed verbatim.

Question #1: The Dragon Ball Super anime connects the story with the last chapter of the manga, but what about this movie? It it a continuation from the end of the manga?
Akio Iyoku says that since the events of Dragon Ball Super take place within the 10 years after Goku defeats Majin Boo, and since Toriyama wrote this story himself, it naturally connects to the story of Dragon Ball.

Question #2: Could you tell us what period this movie is set? After the Granolah Arc, but before the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai?
Akio Iyoku notes he cannot speak to what is unfolding in the Granolla story arc, as it is still ongoing and he does not want to spoil anything. However, he will say that the events of the new movie will take place after the events in Dragon Ball Super: Broly, but before the 28th Tenka’ichi Budōkai.

Question #3: Please tell us the release dates for the Japan and U.S. releases.
Norihiro Hayashida reiterates that no definitive date has been set yet for the release in Japan, but expounds a bit noting that they are still in negotiations for the movie’s U.S. release. They would like them to release as close to the same time as possible, but they will let us know as soon as they can about its official release date.

Question #4: I’d love to know the address for Piccolo’s House. I’ll send him a letter.
Laughing at the question, Akio Iyoku says that while Piccolo’s house does indeed have a mailbox in the movie, its exact address is unknown.

The panel concluded with an announcement that all in attendance would receive a free poster of the movie’s promotional banner, itself prominently featured at the convention.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:23 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:10 pm
super michael wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:16 pm
ZombieVito wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 11:29 am So Gohan stopped training after the ToP confirmed which makes Toyo's nonsense non canon to the movie.

:clap:
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Gohan state in the anime that he would train so he can protect his family? Then in the anime I am sure that he said he would try and gain a Ultimate power that no one has ever seen.

The movie also ignores the anime.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_I'm ... AADJFl.jpg
Credit to Scotty. This is anime.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_I'm ... AADJFo.jpg
Credit to Scotty. This is manga.
Oh, thank god. The movie ignores the MESS that is the anime. The anime is non-canon, confirmed![/sarcasm]

Some of the people here are so obnoxious. If you don't like the manga, that's your prerogative. But when you're cheering for it to be ignored, you're just being a jerk.
Really... no, Dragon ball GT was technically canon until it was eventually made clear that it wasn't anymore...

I don't see the reason to they complain it, it happens all the time... like the case of star wars comics

and the anime is taken into account at least since it is revealed that goku faced kefla and ribrianne in the broly movie

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Kagari » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:13 pm

Jord wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:19 pm

And yeah Gohan lost his mojo again. Seems like the character trait for him.
Has potential->unleashes potential->loses mojo is the cycle that he seems to be going through a lot.
To be fair, nothing is saying that happened, just that he's been working after the ToP... which is logical and what happened in the manga as well. People already pointed out that he went right from work to fight 73 and it'll probably be something similar based on the scene of him with a downed Piccolo in the trailer.

Largely, this film seems like a response to all the complaints about the character - from his design to his main character status along with Piccolo. They wouldn't be plastering Ultimate Gohan all over the posters and marketing if this was another F situation.
Last edited by Kagari on Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Cipher » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:18 pm

While I think it's amusing that the different branches of Super keep saddling us with a "Gohan gets back into fighting form" storyline, I echo sentiments above (and which I've made previously) that it's not any kind of damning note for shared continuity between films and manga, as Gohan is indeed not training full time following the ToP. Training for Moro was an exception, but his priorities are still work and family.

The films are scripted and produced on their own time (prior to later storylines; this one with producing preceding Moro and Granolah, and Broly being written before the ToP had been fully fleshed out in either version), and are relatively stand-alone plot-wise, so you kind of just have to shrug and accept some level of disconnect--especially because tying them too heavily into continuity of a (niche magazine) manga-only storyline is a death knell compared to the kind of broad audiences DB movies are meant to reach.

Even in Broly, where I was actually surprised at how continuity-heavy it was, the ToP just got the lightest of light references to explain Freeza's return. Kale doesn't even get a mention, there's no evolved Vegeta form from either serialized version, etc. It touches on serialized events in the bare minimum capacity it can and otherwise remains pretty accessible coming off of RoF. Also because there were details of serialized versions it couldn't have foreseen during writing--who knows at what point Kale's role or Vegeta's evolution were solidified.

Same here. It was conceived as a stand-alone project that would neither have to tie in tightly with the manga, nor would it majorly step on its toes. It's inevitable that there might be little nitpicks for hyper-alert super fans though.
fleahop wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:09 pm Who do we think the main audience for this movie is?

Do you think they're targeting the DBS anime fans or Heroes fans or DBS: Broly fans or some cross section when they began production?

I'm very interested because I don't feel as though I'm necessarily the intended audience but I'm SUPER pumped for the movie anyway.

Who you guys think they are intending to be the audience for this movie?
Nostalgics who will pop in for a DB film but may not actually follow serialization, kids who watched or read Super or have encountered DB through games and their families, and hardcore fans as a tiny subsection of viewers.

DB's a pop-culture icon in Japan. All of the above were true for Broly as well.
Last edited by Cipher on Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Super Murjin » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:23 pm

Cipher wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:18 pm While I think it's amusing that the different branches of Super keep saddling us with a "Gohan gets back into fighting form" storyline, I echo sentiments above (and which I've made previously) that it's not any kind of damning note for shared continuity between films and manga, as Gohan is indeed not training full time following the ToP. Training for Moro was an exception, but his priorities are still work and family.

The films are scripted and produced on their own time, and are relatively stand-alone plot-wise, so you kind of just have to shrug and accept some level of disconnect--especially because tying them too heavily into continuity of a (niche magazine) manga-only storyline is a death knell compared to the kind of broad audiences DB movies are meant to reach.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2021/10/07/d ... comic-con/

i disagree after I went back a read what was stated at the Q & A last October 2021 regarding where Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero takes place and how it connects to the main story.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:27 pm

Skar wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:43 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:04 amThe film was scripted four years ago and the storylines are unrelated. The audiences of the comic and the film are completely different, too.
I was thinking that the manga arcs could be treated as a midquel (within a midquel!) since the follow-up story was written before them. It's kind of like EoZ being written decades ago and nothing eventful happening since the Buu saga but now all these stories are taking place before it.
I am absolutely sure that the inevitable next cartoon series will tie the three storylines together down the road. For the time being it just makes sense to not just assume the promotional comic for a side magazine is being read by everyone and try to tie them together.
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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:12 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:23 pmReally... no, Dragon ball GT was technically canon until it was eventually made clear that it wasn't anymore...

I don't see the reason to they complain it, it happens all the time... like the case of star wars comics

and the anime is taken into account at least since it is revealed that goku faced kefla and ribrianne in the broly movie
Who mentioned GT? I don't remember there being any discussion around GT's canonicity back when it was new, but then I wasn't really aware of the author's retirement then. Nowadays, it's considered non-canon for the same reasons the anime filler are non-canon. Toriyama didn't write it, and the stuff he did write (Super) contradicts it. But since we have Super movies, the anime, and the manga, each Toriyama's involvement but different details, the question of what is "canon" is more muddy.

I actually found it weird that Kale was not mentioned once in the Broly movie. Kale was basically designed to be genderbent Broly, and they both have the same green forms. Yet not once did Goku or Vegeta say, "Oh, that looks familiar. We met someone recently with the same transformation." It was as if Kale didn't exist, and Broly was the first person they'd ever seen with such a power.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:15 am

Super Murjin wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:23 pm
Cipher wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:18 pm While I think it's amusing that the different branches of Super keep saddling us with a "Gohan gets back into fighting form" storyline, I echo sentiments above (and which I've made previously) that it's not any kind of damning note for shared continuity between films and manga, as Gohan is indeed not training full time following the ToP. Training for Moro was an exception, but his priorities are still work and family.

The films are scripted and produced on their own time, and are relatively stand-alone plot-wise, so you kind of just have to shrug and accept some level of disconnect--especially because tying them too heavily into continuity of a (niche magazine) manga-only storyline is a death knell compared to the kind of broad audiences DB movies are meant to reach.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2021/10/07/d ... comic-con/

i disagree after I went back a read what was stated at the Q & A last October 2021 regarding where Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero takes place and how it connects to the main story.
That article doesn’t say anything that contradicts what Cipher said though. It seems there is a dire need of making every single detail connect, but this is impossible given the timeframe of each production.

Goku not recalling Kale on DBS movie #1 is just an example of that. It should be an obvious comparison, if the movie was written after ToP was fleshed out.

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Re: Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:40 am

Of course the movie ignores the manga. Even though we don't have canon like Star Wars has, they stick to leave stories to it's own format.
The original manga ended and the anime adaptation took over afterwards. What happens in anime, is canon to anime, not the other way around. With exception of the recent movies starting with Broly (as BOG and ROF were adapted into Super series with differences).
Except for movie continuation of Super, manga story stays in manga, same with video games etc.

I am actually happy about that choice and makes sense. The manga is nice bonus thing to have, even tho I really don't like the Granolah arc, but still, Dragon Ball to me is the original 42 volumes and anime DB, Z and Super even with it's flaws.
Super to me is thanks to DB minus more of a sequel to manga actually nowadays, as it doesn't work with Bardock TV Special now :lol:

This is unnoficial, but comming from one of the DB animators and I really love it!
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