Non-thread-worthy discussions

[MasenkoHA]

I. So, I put the video side by side and noticed that they added a bunch of scenes from the series to the RTD version of the movie lol WHY!? Was this for timing because they split it into 3 episodes? I just got through Kaio's first scene and they legitimately added around 30 seconds of Kaio talking to Bubbles and Gregory. So wild.

Yes, because it was split into 3 episodes it needed to fit in roughly 3 22 minute episodes

There are no differences between the Pioneer singles and RTD versions of movies 1 and 2 (besides the intros/outros), right?

Light editing like Gohan pissing in Krillin's mouth and Oolong's panty wish fantasy being omitted but otherwise no real difference

[Ssj3Engels]

Somebody tried to tell me that Gohan's trigger made no sense because he never transformed from rage before.
FIrst off.. Cell Saga and Super Saiyan 2.

Secondly.. Gohans most trauamatic moments involved Cell and Piccolo.

Piccolo dying against Nappa while saving Gohan as Gohan watched helplessly, and Cell having his friends and father as well as Piccolo tortured and then Cell "killing" 16 right in front of Gohan as yet again Gohan is too stunned to do anything.

With SH we literally have all of that.. Piccolo and the rest are getting beaten into the dirt as Gohan watches, then to his eyes he sees Piccolo "die" in front of him again and he let it happen yet again and all the trauma and rage from Piccolo dying and the Cell Games makes him snap yet again and he awakens to Beast.

We also need to remember that his first Super Saiyan transformation was fueled by the very same trauma with watching Piccolo die, Krillin die, and everyone get tortured as he stands there helpless. I seriously think Piccolo took Cell Max being a thing as the PERFECT opportunity to use Gohans trauma to wake him up and make him snap again. It worked, and maybe it was necessary.. but it was fucked up.

Very interesting take, sir! I should, and I will, watch this movie again sometime!

[QuakingStar]

Somebody tried to tell me that Gohan's trigger made no sense because he never transformed from rage before.
FIrst off.. Cell Saga and Super Saiyan 2.

Secondly.. Gohans most trauamatic moments involved Cell and Piccolo.

Piccolo dying against Nappa while saving Gohan as Gohan watched helplessly, and Cell having his friends and father as well as Piccolo tortured and then Cell "killing" 16 right in front of Gohan as yet again Gohan is too stunned to do anything.

With SH we literally have all of that.. Piccolo and the rest are getting beaten into the dirt as Gohan watches, then to his eyes he sees Piccolo "die" in front of him again and he let it happen yet again and all the trauma and rage from Piccolo dying and the Cell Games makes him snap yet again and he awakens to Beast.

We also need to remember that his first Super Saiyan transformation was fueled by the very same trauma with watching Piccolo die, Krillin die, and everyone get tortured as he stands there helpless. I seriously think Piccolo took Cell Max being a thing as the PERFECT opportunity to use Gohans trauma to wake him up and make him snap again. It worked, and maybe it was necessary.. but it was fucked up.

Very interesting take, sir! I should, and I will, watch this movie again sometime!

No prob, enjoy the re-watch. I might do that again soon myself.

[ZeroNeonix]

I'm just tired of transformations that appear with no explanation or buildup. Super Saiyan was teased first as a legend. Super Saiyan Blue is just what happens when someone goes Super Saiyan with God ki (don't know why there isn't a Blue 2 or 3, though). Trunks' Rage transformation, Vegeta's Evolution form, Gohan's Beast form, all appear once out of nowhere without explanation, and then are never seen again. Well, Gohan's beast form might appear again, at least, if they can resist giving him another new transformation right away. Orange Piccolo kind of has an explanation, as Shenron had given him the extra power as a favor. Although if he could just wish for god-tier power, I wonder why he never tried that before.

It's just feels like I have to turn my brain off and just accept that it makes no sense, moreso than I had to do with DBZ. The latter felt like it had internal logic that it kept to.

[ABED]

It feels like Orange Piccolo was a deliberate choice to undercut transformations, as if to say "Don't take this all so seriously".

[Skar]

I think both forms were meant to parody forms Toriyama has seen before or a self-parody. If you show someone those transformations, their initial reaction is unlikely to be that Toriyama designed them based on previous experience with the series. Orange Piccolo looks like it was inspired by the movie villain transformations like for Garlic Jr and Bojack. Appearing in a light hearted movie and calling it Orange Piccolo makes it seem like more of a joke.

I recall Gohan originally wasn't going to be in the movie or at least a smaller role. It makes sense because Toriyama gave him a minor role in most of DBS. He returned to fighting in the ToP but the manga and anime differed so it seems that Toriyama didn't have much written for Gohan in his outline. I could see Toriyama deciding to reference or parody Gohan's most iconic moment by having him achieve a form that looks like SSJ2 Gohan with bigger hair against a bigger and stronger version of Cell.

Not that I liked these forms at all. They happened so this is my way of trying to differentiate them from similar looking forms. I did like Ultimate Piccolo since it was more of a state than a transformation. It reminded me of True UI in the manga. Some fans were expecting the next level would be crazier or a different color so it was surprising that it looked closest to his base.

[Noah]

I really dislike how the games just use the English dub lines for the subtitles. There are script changes and you can tell when the subtitles don't match up to what the characters are saying in Japanese. Would it cost them that much to hire a Japanese translator?

My thoughts exactly. I don't think is that expensive, but they are just lazy to do something that could improve some players experience through the gameplay.

[Cure Dragon 255]

TV Tropes thinks KRILLIN was in love with BULMA.

[Ssj3Engels]

Not exactly Dragon Ball-related, but did Shunsuke Kikuchi also compose the soundtrack for the 1980's original Dr. Slump anime series?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

TV Tropes thinks KRILLIN was in love with BULMA.

There's a lot of false info on TV Tropes, we can probably blame them for a lot of fans thinking Funimation acquired Dragon Ball Z from Ocean at season 3 and continued it for the US market from that point on, because, as we know they did suggest that.

Not exactly Dragon Ball-related, but did Shunsuke Kikuchi also compose the soundtrack for the 1980's original Dr. Slump anime series?

He did yes.

[Grimlock]

Why wouldn't they? It's a movie that was aggressively hated with a passion by most of the fandom (the rest being apathetic towards it or too young to remember it existed)and it was a singular movie from nearly 15 years ago without any sort of follow up. There is zero incentive for any of Dragon Ball's IP holders to have any interest or incentive to do anything with Evolution.

Because if there's no risk, there's no reward. Again, that didn't stop Godzilla (1998) from appearing outside his debut movie. Ben 10's live-action protagonists making a cameo in the series. Ugly Sonic was well received in a different context. I understand that being an excuse to not do something with Dragon Ball Evolution, but they shouldn't be afraid to do something with it regardless.

The like 5 people begging for Dragon Ball Across the Multiverse of Madness will just have to do without

For now...

The only interaction worth the time would be the main series cast seeing them and going "Yo what the fuck was that???"

Yes, that's good enough!

the creator despises it.

The same creator who said good things about the movie.

Sure, it was before the movie was released, but come on... I don't think there was a single soul expecting good things about the movie prior to its release (other than him).

Truth. The only way the Evolution cast is getting into any modern Dragon Ball media is if they get the “1998 Godzilla in Final Wars” treatment. Have Justin Chatwin challenge the real Goku to a duel, have him get absolutely rekt in 5 seconds, and then just move on.

That would also be amazing! Well, anything they could do would be good in my book. Even "one of the six Universes Zeno erased was where Dragon Ball Evolution took place" would be cool (but then again, Android 17 wished it back in the Universe Survival saga! ).

[jjgp1112]

Why wouldn't they? It's a movie that was aggressively hated with a passion by most of the fandom (the rest being apathetic towards it or too young to remember it existed)and it was a singular movie from nearly 15 years ago without any sort of follow up. There is zero incentive for any of Dragon Ball's IP holders to have any interest or incentive to do anything with Evolution.

Because if there's no risk, there's no reward. Again, that didn't stop Godzilla (1998) from appearing outside his debut movie. Ben 10's live-action protagonists making a cameo in the series. Ugly Sonic was well received in a different context. I understand that being an excuse to not do something with Dragon Ball Evolution, but they shouldn't be afraid to do something with it regardless.

The like 5 people begging for Dragon Ball Across the Multiverse of Madness will just have to do without

For now...

The only interaction worth the time would be the main series cast seeing them and going "Yo what the fuck was that???"

Yes, that's good enough!

the creator despises it.

The same creator who said good things about the movie.

Sure, it was before the movie was released, but come on... I don't think there was a single soul expecting good things about the movie prior to its release

And then afterwards said it was so bad and the experience was so infuriating that it motivated him to get involved with Battle of God's, so his prior comments were so clearly him playing nice to help promote the movie that I have no Eartly idea why you'd even bring it up.

[Ssj3Engels]

Not exactly Dragon Ball-related, but did Shunsuke Kikuchi also compose the soundtrack for the 1980's original Dr. Slump anime series?

He did yes.

Thanks!!!

[LoganForkHands73]

The only contexts where Dragonball Evolution would be acceptable to reference in this day and age are either be a split second stock footage cameo in some multiverse sequence, or a pure "take that" against how bad it was. Otherwise, there's no redemption for it. I'd say it's a different situation to TriStar Godzilla/"Zilla" crossing into the Toho Godzilla universe because in that case, though people don't like to admit it, the 1998 Godzilla movie was somewhat popular and successful for a time. It still gets reruns on TV sometimes. Even though classic Godzilla fans were mostly ambivalent to the obvious changes Emmerich made, there was some genuine widespread interest in seeing the American and Japanese Godzillas squaring up because there was still some shared DNA. Zilla still makes occasional appearances to this day (there's a whole legal nightmare as to why he can never be referred to as "Godzilla" ever again, but I digress).

With DB Evolution, there's nothing. I've legit never met anyone who would say a good thing about that movie. Justin Chatwin's Goku has absolutely nothing in common with Toriyama's original Goku, so there would be no great catharsis in having them meet. The general apathy and disdain for the film has not wavered at all. It's true that the entire post-2013 revival of the franchise does owe itself to Evolution's failure in a roundabout way, but that does nothing to hype up the movie itself, cause everyone knows it's garbage.

Not every mouldy skeleton has to be brought out the closet. But it seems some people get off on just knowing that every part of a franchise is connected for the sake of a few extra paragraphs on the wiki pages, regardless of the quality of said mouldy skeleton or the execution of how it's brought out.

[Cure Dragon 255]

The only contexts where Dragonball Evolution would be acceptable to reference in this day and age would either be a split second stock footage cameo in some multiverse sequence, or a pure "take that" against how bad it was. Otherwise, there's no redemption for it. I'd say it's a different situation to TriStar Godzilla/"Zilla" crossing into the Toho Godzilla universe because in that case, though people don't like to admit it, the 1998 Godzilla movie was somewhat popular and successful for a time. It still gets reruns on TV sometimes. [/b ]Even though classic Godzilla fans were mostly ambivalent to the obvious changes Emmerich made, there was some genuine widespread interest in seeing the American and Japanese Godzillas squaring up because there was still some shared DNA. Zilla still makes occasional appearances to this day (there is a whole legal nightmare as to why he can never be referred to as "Godzilla" ever again, but I digress).

With DB Evolution, there's nothing. I've legit never met anyone who would say a good thing about that movie. Justin Chatwin's Goku has absolutely nothing in common with Toriyama's original Goku, so there would be no great catharsis in having them meet. The general apathy and disdain for the film has not wavered at all. It's true that the entire post-2013 revival of the franchise does owe itself to Evolution's failure in a roundabout way, but that does nothing to hype up the movie itself, cause everyone knows it's garbage.

Dragon Ball Evolution gets reruns on tv. That's the fate of any cheap filler movie, not a seal of its quality. You are still right that people DO want to watch the less faithful Godzilla. I do know people who genuinely like it. Which is more than can be said of Evolution.

[LoganForkHands73]

The only contexts where Dragonball Evolution would be acceptable to reference in this day and age would either be a split second stock footage cameo in some multiverse sequence, or a pure "take that" against how bad it was. Otherwise, there's no redemption for it. I'd say it's a different situation to TriStar Godzilla/"Zilla" crossing into the Toho Godzilla universe because in that case, though people don't like to admit it, the 1998 Godzilla movie was somewhat popular and successful for a time. It still gets reruns on TV sometimes. [/b ]Even though classic Godzilla fans were mostly ambivalent to the obvious changes Emmerich made, there was some genuine widespread interest in seeing the American and Japanese Godzillas squaring up because there was still some shared DNA. Zilla still makes occasional appearances to this day (there is a whole legal nightmare as to why he can never be referred to as "Godzilla" ever again, but I digress).

With DB Evolution, there's nothing. I've legit never met anyone who would say a good thing about that movie. Justin Chatwin's Goku has absolutely nothing in common with Toriyama's original Goku, so there would be no great catharsis in having them meet. The general apathy and disdain for the film has not wavered at all. It's true that the entire post-2013 revival of the franchise does owe itself to Evolution's failure in a roundabout way, but that does nothing to hype up the movie itself, cause everyone knows it's garbage.

Dragon Ball Evolution gets reruns on tv. That's the fate of any cheap filler movie, not a seal of its quality. You are still right that people DO want to watch the less faithful Godzilla. I do know people who genuinely like it. Which is more than can be said of Evolution.

Really? Dang I didn't know, I've never seen it played in my country but that may be for the best, lol.

[Grimlock]

I've legit never met anyone who would say a good thing about that movie.

Then here it is: There is one good thing the movie did that's much better than the series. But that's more of a lore, in-universe thing than production and technicalities of the movie itself.

Justin Chatwin's Goku has absolutely nothing in common with Toriyama's original Goku, so there would be no great catharsis in having them meet.

But that's precisely what would make their meeting interesting. What good would be in seeing two very similar Gokus interacting? The reason why is nice to see Goku and Xeno Goku meeting is because they "almost" literally represent a "Super Goku" and "Toei Goku", especially in the Dragon Ball Heroes anime version where this is made abundantly clear (and highlights why Dragon Ball Super Goku is lame...).

Also, it's not just their personalities (remember, this discussion started with voice actors), we would see a Goku not voiced by Masako Nozawa. If Dragon Ball Evolution Goku makes a cameo with a few lines, it could be experimental to see how Kappei Yamaguchi would handle it. I don't think he would perform the exact way as he did in the movie, to voice a human is different than to voice a fictional character. But be that as it may, we will never know anything until we get it (and because we, by "we" I mean Shueisha/Toei mainly, should start thinking about who else could take on Goku's role anyway, as much as we don't want to...).

Not every mouldy skeleton has to be brought out the closet. But it seems some people get off on just knowing that every part of a franchise is connected for the sake of a few extra paragraphs on the wiki pages, regardless of the quality of said mouldy skeleton or the execution of how it's brought out.

That mouldy skeleton shouldn't even have existed in the first place, but now that it did and was kept in a closet, why not pester with it for a little bit? Yeah, the quality of the skeleton is bad, and it was put in a bad context, but what happens if we put it in a good context? And I don't think you can say something about execution. It's still hasn't been done.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Dragon Ball Evolution gets reruns on tv. That's the fate of any cheap filler movie, not a seal of its quality.

Exactly, movies that did poorly do make their way to TV, but mostly because they are cheap for the networks.

[Koitsukai]

The only possible cameo or whatever I can see for DBE is in the spirit of like when The Simpsons had a bunch of Homers and one of them was Peter Griffin. Basically a mock at it. Nothing else about it would be interesting, because there was nothing interesting to begin with.

I'd rather see Jackie Chan meeting Goku.

[Majin Buu]

I understand that being an excuse to not do something with Dragon Ball Evolution, but they shouldn't be afraid to do something with it regardless.

I don't think they're "afraid" of doing anything with it.

"Afraid" implies that they want to do something with it but are too scared to do so; and I don't get sense that anyone there wants to do anything with Evolution.

They just hate it and want to forget it exists.