Terminology Hang-Up: Saiyan "Classes" VS "Levels"

[Kaboom]

So I was originally going to just post this in the all-purpose translation thread, but I figured a dedicated topic might be a little better, because this is going to be just as much about squaring things away logically as it is about just translating stuff, and it could be handy to use as a reference later.

I wanted to discuss this notable Q&A from 2018, namely the part where Toriyama talks about how Saiyans get their power measured at birth and their future roles determined as a result. It seems to lay things out pretty clearly to me... if you're strong enough to be rated as "upper-level" as a baby, then you get fast-tracked into combat duty as a kid. If not, then you're deemed a "lower-level" and either get shipped off as an infiltration baby or are trained for some other, non-combat job. If an infiltration baby beats the odds and gets strong enough to conquer their assigned planet, then they can likewise be considered "upper-level" now and become combatants.

Either way, the bottom line seems to be that "upper-level" means "strong enough for combat," and "lower-level" means "NOT strong enough for combat." Simple enough so far, right?

Then we have this earlier Q&A regarding Episode of Bardock, where Toriyama talks a little more about the Saiyan class system, and specifically where Bardock himself fell within it. He mentions that there were only about 10 mid-class Saiyans, and that you could get promoted to that rank if you got strong enough, but that never happened for Bardock despite him excelling at field combat and being one of the strongest low-classes (and even stronger than most mid-classes, if talking about the real Bardock from the TV special).

So when you put the two sources together, you basically get this. "Lower-level" low-class Saiyans don't get to do field combat duty. "Upper-level" low-class Saiyans DO get to do field combat duty, and if they get strong enough and I guess if King Vegeta likes them enough, they can even be promoted to mid-class. But until that happens, "lower-level" and "upper-level" Saiyans are all still part of the broader "low-class" group just the same.

So all that said... There's been this weird notion going around in certain DB communities (not so much here, at least not recently) where people take the part of that first Q&A mentioning that li'l Raditz was "upper-level," and interpret it to also mean that he was actually "mid-class" rather than being a low-class. This seems pretty preposterous to me, especially considering how the mid-class is laid out as something extraordinary only encompassing top-tier fighters. It isn't something that Raditz of all people would be part of, especially not while still as a little kid. Nothing that I'm aware of has ever outright said "Raditz was mid-class" either, but those who make the claim usually back it with two specific things:

One is the last bit in this Q&A from one of the Full-Color volumes, talking about the "pecking order" between the Saiyan trio and saying that Nappa and Raditz had "equal status" compared to Vegeta. But that's pretty easy to dismiss, since it doesn't make any mention of the low/mid/elite class system in the first place, and only seems to be talking about their group dynamic. Raditz being low-class while Nappa is mid-class wouldn't matter when they both just take orders straight from Vegeta anyway, right?

The second thing is a line from li'l Raditz in the early vomitous Minus-adaptation portions of the nuBroli movie, where he chastises his baby brother for being a "low-class" and still stuck in an incubator. The assumed implication being that Raditz somehow isn't also low-class himself for saying this. But it seems like a stretch, and more like it's meant to be about the "lower-level" versus "upper-level" assignment system described above.

Furthermore, the Bardock Q&A's information would throw the entire "Raditz was mid-class" assumption out of whack all on its own. If only "upper-level" Saiyans get to do field combat, like the first Q&A describes, but "upper-level" means "mid-class" like people are assuming, then would that mean there are only 10 or so Saiyans ever out in space conquering planets? Plus of course, that would require Bardock himself to be a "mid-class" too since he was literally seen out and about slaughtering aliens, even though Toriyama plainly said he never got promoted beyond low-class.

So here's the main points I want to address in this topic.

• What are the different original Japanese terms for "class" versus "level" in the different Q&As here? What's the technical difference and connotations between them? I'd assume they are different in Japanese, since I haven't seen the "level" term get used in anywhere else but the "power measurement at birth" subject of that first Q&A I linked.
• Do each of those terms get used in different contexts anywhere else, in the original story itself or otherwise? Specifically, which term did li'l Raditz use in the nuBroli movie? What else is out there that might help clarify the difference?
• If there is some sort of clash or incompatibility in the terminology at work here, how might this whole system be put together in a way that makes a lick of sense?

[Hugo Boss]

I’m not sure about the terminology used in those instances, but I usually assume the most logical answer is that upper-level encompasses high, mid and low class Saiyans who surpass the threshold for battle, while the lower-level is about non-combatant Saiyans. From my understanding, Raditz was implying Goku didn’t have a battle power large enough to be considered an upper-level as he was sent as an infiltration baby, and Raditz is a low class warrior himself. Probably someone used the terms interchangeably when writing the dialogue.

[Magnificent Ponta]

My understanding is that both the 2018 Saikyo Jump Saiyan Q&A and the Episode of Bardock Manga Q&A use the terminology joukyuu senshi (上級戦士) for the "upper-level warriors" and kakyuu senshi (下級戦士) for the "low-level warriors". The Episode of Bardock Manga Q&A adds the "intermediate/mid-level warrior" distinction, which is chuukyuu senshi (中級戦士).

I was able to find a Japanese Dragonball Neta Post discussing the 2018 Saikyo Jump Q&A. From the phrasing of their discussion of the talking points, it seems that Raditz is characterised as joukyuu senshi (上級戦士) in the 2018 Q&A - which point the poster takes exception to, as OP does in this topic - and it helpfully puts up a picture of the Episode of Bardock Manga Q&A excerpt where Akira Toriyama discusses the Low/Mid/Upper distinctions and where Bardock sits:



I've done my best to transcribe the most pertinent part of the excerpt (though I am studying, my Japanese remains low-level, so caveat lector for any slips - I'll leave off attempting a translation of my own, as there's nothing I could add to the translation Kanzenshuu already has), as follows:

バーダックは下級戦士です。といっても下級戦士がほとんどで、中級戦士はわずか10人ほど。上級戦士に至ってはベジータ王とベジータ王子しかいません。バーダックは下級戦士としては上位にいますが中級戦士にはなれていません。

Baadakku wa kakyuu senshi desu. Toittemo kakyuu senshi ga hotondo, chuukyuu senshi wa wazuka 10 nin hodo. Joukyuu senshi ni itte wa Bejiita Ou to Bejiita Ouji shika imasen. Baadakku wa kakyuu senshi toshite wa jyoui ni imasu ga chuukyuu senshi niwa nareteimasen.

As for the connotations of the specific wording, even a cursory dictionary search shows 下級 appearing in words that give meanings of low-class/level in social terms (as a citizen), ranking (as in, a subordinate), age grading (as at school), or quality (of goods) - and, of course, the reverse for 上級-words. So it seems pretty general, and therefore precarious to construct finer distinctions using the wording alone. The specific wording of "equal status" in the Full Color Manga may or may not prove more illuminating, but I haven't been able to find a picture of that to discern the wording in any case.

More probably, it depends on the specific broader schema one constructs to make sense of these apparently clashing data to make a broader interpretation (Raditz being senior among the Low-Level, or else Raditz being simply an Upper-Class Saiyan in pretty much the same way that Nappa is) - either of which seems quite possible, and neither of which (with all due respect to the trenchancy of OP's opinions) seems inherently "preposterous".

Hope this is (all accurate, and therefore) helpful!

[Kaboom]

Okay, thank you. Very helpful, we're basically halfway there now.

Here is a direct OG-Japanese shot of the 2018 Q&A, if that helps. I'm not going to pretend to be a reliable translator, but I think I spy the same "下級" and "上級" bits in there. If anyone has a similar raw picture of the Full-Color Q&A talking about the Saiyan trio's "pecking order," just to help cover all our bases, then that'd be really appreciated too.

So what I'm gleaning is that the Japanese terms used for both "class" and "level" in the two Q&As are apparently the same and effectively interchangeable, and there's both "low" and "high" categories of it. But there's still an entirely separate term used to refer to the "mid-class," which was apparently never applied to Raditz, so at least that particular assumption doesn't have any weight so far.

Which answers some things but still leaves other things confusing. If the original Japanese terms for "low-class" (i.e. 99% of the general Saiyan population below "mid-class") and "lower-level" (i.e. too weak for combat duty) really are the same, then what are we to make of both terms being used for Bardock at the same time in the EoB Q&A? Because he's plainly said to be "low-class" but "high rank among low-class," and also clearly isn't stuck down in the "no combat duty for you" tier.

So... if the terms really are the same, then is it just a matter of context? If so then at least it's probably safe to assume that if li'l Raditz used the "kakyuu senshi" term for baby Goku in the nuBroli movie (which I don't have and can't double-check for myself), then it was probably just in the "too weak for combat" sense.

So far, this all just seems to reinforce the "two separate tiers of the broader low-class" conclusion I've held for ages now and illustrated in my chart, and that both Bardock and Raditz were "upper-level low-class" in the sense that both of them were strong enough for combat duty, but neither of them were among the more special and distinguished "mid-class" rank.

What I'd really like to have is some input from whoever translated the 2018 Q&A for the site, and have them shed some light on why they went with the "upper-level" and "lower-level" terms instead of "-class" to begin with.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Here is a direct OG-Japanese shot of the 2018 Q&A, if that helps. I'm not going to pretend to be a reliable translator, but I think I spy the same "下級" and "上級" bits in there.

I've had a bash at a transcription, as follows - lots of words I'm unfamiliar with, so some errors in the romaji part are fairly likely, but it's clear enough that the same wording is present here for Upper and Lower level warriors as in the Episode of Bardock Q&A:

サイヤ人はみんあ戦闘員になるの？
赤ん坊が生まれると、すぐに戦闘力が測定されます。数値が　基準より高ければ上級戦士と見なされ、すぐに戦闘員候補として育てられます。一方、ある時期が過ぎても数値の低い者は下級戦士とみなされ、技術者になるか、飛ばし子になりポッドでどこかの星に飛ばされてしまいます。その星を征服できるほど強く成長すれば　戦闘員として故郷の星に帰ることができます。しかし、飛ばされた子どもの生存率は高くありません。ラヂイッツは上級戦士だったので、正規の戦闘員としてナッパのいるグループに配属され子どものころから闘っています。ベジータがそのグループにくわったというわけです。

Saiya Jin wa minna sentouin ni naru no?
Akanbou ga umareru to, sugu ni sentouryoku ga sokutei saremasu. Suuchi ga kijyun yori takakereba joukyuu senshi to minasare, sugu ni sentouin kouho toshite sodateraremasu. Ippou, aru jiki ga sugite mo suuchi no hikui mono wa kakyuusenshi to minasare, gijyutsusha ni naru ka, tobashigo ni nari poddo de doko ka no hoshi ni tobasarete shimaimasu. Sono hoshi o seifuku dekiru hodo tsuyouku seichou sureba sentouin to shite kokyou no hoshi ni kaeru koto ga dekimasu. Shikashi, tobasareta kodomo no seizonritsu wa takaku arimasen. Radittsu wa joukyuusenshi datta node, seiki no sentouin to shite Nappa no iru guruupu ni haizokusare kodomo no koro kara tatakatteimasu. Bejiita ga sono guruupu ni kuwatta to iu wake desu.

The phrasing "Radittsu wa joukyuu senshi wa datta node" ("Since Raditz was an upper-level warrior...") seems to perhaps imply that being an upper-level warrior is a given (and, perhaps, precondition?) for him being assigned to Nappa's group.

it's probably safe to assume that if li'l Raditz used the "kakyuu senshi" term for baby Goku in the nuBroli movie (which I don't have and can't double-check for myself)

I've just checked it; he does indeed refer to Kakarot as "kakyuusenshi" in the relevant scene in Broly; it's quite clearly audible. Incidentally, Nappa and Vegeta use the same word for Goku in the original work, in Chapters 225 (Nappa also calls himself a 名門出のエリート戦士/Meimon de eriito senshi - a Noble Elite warrior, so it seems unlikely that he considers himself "mid-level" according to any schema that Saiyans may use to assess their own people) and 228 and 231 (Vegeta routinely refers to himself as 超エリート/Chou eriito - A Super Elite) - there may be other examples that don't immediately spring to mind.

[Kaboom]

Incidentally, Nappa and Vegeta use the same word for Goku in the original work, in Chapters 225 (Nappa also calls himself a 名門出のエリート戦士/Meimon de eriito senshi - a Noble Elite warrior, so it seems unlikely that he considers himself "mid-level" according to any schema that Saiyans may use to assess their own people) and 228 and 231 (Vegeta routinely refers to himself as 超エリート/Chou eriito - A Super Elite) - there may be other examples that don't immediately spring to mind.

Yeah, it just seems that what the original manga called "Elite" (Nappa) and "Super Elite" (Vegeta) have effectively now been re-labeled as "Mid-Class" (Nappa) and "Elite" (Vegeta), respectively. What with Toriyama definitively saying that the only true "Elite" classes were the royal family.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Yeah, it just seems that what the original manga called "Elite" (Nappa) and "Super Elite" (Vegeta) have effectively now been re-labeled as "Mid-Class" (Nappa) and "Elite" (Vegeta), respectively. What with Toriyama definitively saying that the only true "Elite" classes were the royal family.

I think it's definitely fair to say that there's a kind of correspondence going on between those categories, yes.

But I think I'd also suggest that the broader framing is potentially significant also - i.e., Nappa (for instance) is "Mid-level" to whom? One potential answer is, not to other Saiyans (as previously noted, Nappa is clear on his own self-conception of his status in Saiyan terms, and it isn't "Mid" anything), but in the broader context of their work as combatants for Freeza (or, if you prefer, their place in the Universal Context - in the time period under discussion, that pretty much amounts to the same thing). After all, Freeza has his own "Elites" (Kiwi, Dodoria, Zarbon, the Ginyus) and, given that kind of level, it would make sense for only Vegeta III and Vegeta IV to be mentioned in connection with that group.

So you could quite easily have a schema that looks something like this instead (with perhaps a little blurriness around the edges that would come with co-opting the pre-existing class system of a species who principally make their social stratification decisions on the basis of infant strength levels, into the professional soldiery of a totally different organisation):

• Saiyan "Super Elite" ≈ Freeza Force "Elite"/Upper Level Warrior. Only Vegeta III and IV would represent the Saiyans here (Broly would also be here were it not for his being labelled as a Freak and exiled), among goons like Zarbon and Dodoria.
• Saiyan "Elite"/Upper Level Warrior ≈ Freeza Force "Mid Level Warrior". Nappa would be here somewhat further up the scale, as would the "10 or so" Saiyans on this level. Raditz would be here too, albeit at the lower end of the scale, as may be other warriors in Nappa's group and potentially Vegeta III's entourage. There are Freeza Force goons aplenty in this general "mid level" bracket (e.g., most of the troopers who accompanied him to Namek), far behind his True Elite personnel.
• Saiyan Low-Class/Lower Level Warrior ≈ Freeza Force "Low Level Warrior". Bardock is at the top of this group from the Saiyan perspective, and basically all the other combatant Saiyans are in this group too (including, provisionally, Infiltration Babies, pending their conquest of a target planet and successful return). Freeza Force scrub fighters are here too, like (probably) the Recon Guys Gohan and Kuririn dispatch when they land on Namek.
• Non-combatants. From a Saiyan perspective, Lower Level Warriors who haven't managed to 'cut it' as combatants and have been (re-)assigned as logistics personnel (e.g., Beets, Gine). Of course the Freeza Force has non-combatants staffing their facilities, like Lemo etc.

[Hugo Boss]

Raditz being considered mid-level, on equal status with Nappa, or upper class though contradicts Daizenshuu in some ways.

Daizenshuu 7's Character Dictionary:

Spoiler:

Raditz | Goku's older brother
First Appearance: chapter 195
Special Characteristics: Goku's true older brother, and Bardock's eldest son. He was raised as a pure-blooded Saiyan, and so has a heartless personality, showing no compassion to his younger brother. Born as a lowest-level warrior, he lacks experience fighting to the death against strong opponents, and so his battle power is of the lowest level for a Saiyan. He also hasn't strengthened his weak spot, the tail, and is called
"weakling Raditz" by his comrades.

Spoiler:

Saibaiman Set
First Appearance: chapter 214
Category: battle item
Explanation: A bio weapon developed by the Saiyans. Vegeta and Nappa used it to force the location of the dragonballs out of Piccolo and co., giving birth to 6 Saibaimen.
Special Characteristics: The seeds and growth fluid are included in a single set. Simply by burying the seeds in the soil, pouring the growth fluid on, and waiting a few seconds, the ghastly shaped Saibaimen will be born. Its biggest distinguishing characteristic is that the Saibaimen's battle power changes based on the condition of the soil. On Earth where the soil is extremely nutritious, Saibaimen are born with battle powers of 1,200, on par with a low-level combatant. Though the Saibaimen themselves cannot speak, they are capable of understanding orders. (Daizenshuu 4, p.153)

[Kaboom]

Yeah, if nothing else, we've already pretty definitively established that "mid-class" is its own distinct thing, entirely separate from the "low class/level" and "upper class/level" confusion, and with its own specific Japanese term that's evidently never been attached to Raditz. I dunno about anyone else but I'm confident that the "Raditz was mid-class" notion is firmly shut down at this point.

Honestly there's nothing about this newer information that strikes me as incompatible with those older Daizenshuu quotes. When you put it all together, it paints a fairly complete picture that Raditz had a relatively high power level as a baby, and was deemed to have enough potential to place in a combat group as a kid. But he ended up squandering that potential by avoiding tougher fights, and ultimately remained disappointingly weak as an adult.

Also, both of these Q&As are only talking about Saiyan society and its particular caste system, without any comparison to the ranks of Freeza's forces, so I don't think the latter really has anything to do with this topic. The whole "low/elite/super-elite" versus "low/mid/elite" sub-topic really does seem to just be a matter of shifting terminology for the same things.

So yeah, while I can appreciate the more creative attempt to reconcile the weird "the same words for low class/level can mean different things" conundrum, that whole thing seems unnecessarily convoluted compared to just... y'know, this.

Plus, and I know this is partly just an emotional-angle thing, I just straight-up cannot image ANY scenario where Toriyama was trying to tell us that Raditz, the guy who's universally mocked for being a weakling, was ever stronger or held a higher rank than Bardock. Like, as soon as you get past the "Raditz being 'upper-level' as a baby means he was mid-class" misinterpretation, then I don't see any sensible way to come to that conclusion.

[Magnificent Ponta]

So yeah, while I can appreciate the more creative attempt to reconcile the weird "the same words for low class/level can mean different things" conundrum, that whole thing seems unnecessarily convoluted compared to just... y'know, this.

Perhaps there is some confusion here - I'm not saying that the same words mean different things; I'm saying different words/classifications in different sources mean/refer to the same thing, which I thought was a point of decided agreement in the discussion so far. All I'm doing by this means is proposing a kind of "in-universe" framework by which those different terminologies/ways of looking at the same thing could coexist. I'm happy enough to simply say "the 2014 Q&A's mid-level is the same thing as the 2018 Q&A's upper-level" while keeping an out-of-universe perspective on it (but I find that a bit less fun, is all).

While I appreciate streamlined simplicity, I do have qualms about the way your interpretation has to explain away data from various sources to make for this kind of simplicity (and particularly, to keep Raditz in the "lower-class" bracket, which sometimes seems to look like an objective of your argumentation rather than a direct conclusion from it), reading some sources against their plain sense to arrive at your conclusions. For example:

• The 2013 Full Color Manga Q&A does state that Raditz and Nappa have the same status (unless there's something deeply problematic in the translation, but I doubt it). The plain sense of it is that they're equal in the status-based pecking order, even though not in strength. Saying "well they're just the same relative to Vegeta" doesn't seem to capture what the source is saying - it doesn't say they're the same compared to Vegeta; just that he's above them but they're the same. If Raditz were below Nappa in the pecking order (and the order as such is the question being addressed), it would have been easy for it to say so.
• The 2018 Q&A pretty plainly says that Raditz is in Nappa's group as a kid because he's an upper-level warrior, having made plain that kids who are pressed to be combatants are ipso facto upper-level warriors. To say that this 'really' means that Raditz is in the upper-level of the lower-level does violence to the plain sense of the source, which is telling us that kid Raditz is capable enough to belong in Nappa's group, and excludes him from the lower-level because he takes this path as a child; the two statuses are explicitly contrasted in this way.
• If we accept that the source doesn't give any leeway for this "upper level within the lower level" interpretation, then it's also not possible to use this idea to explain away Raditz disparaging Kakarot's status as a "low-level warrior" in Broly either. Raditz looks down on Kakarot because he's a low-level warrior and Raditz simply isn't. That's the simplest explanation, and it's backed up by Raditz being good enough to be a member of Nappa's group and (as per DB Minus) the partner of the prince himself.
• You also seem to be interpreting the 2018 Q&A source to say that if a lower-level Saiyan is a combatant, they have become part of a formally-defined "upper level" within the "lower-level" group, but the source doesn't say that. It just says that a low-level warrior Saiyan can be a combatant (戦闘員) if they are able to conquer the planet they're sent to and make it home. It doesn't say anything about their recognised status with regard to being an "upper/lower level warrior" changing as a result of this; merely whether their function is that of a combatant or not.
• Even the 2014 Q&A only says that Bardock is high-ranking among the lower-level warriors, but it doesn't say that any combatant among low-level warriors is necessarily a high-ranking low-level warrior as a result; just that Bardock is. This simply means he specifically is a very capable warrior within his (lower) class, even if his power hasn't grown radically enough to admit him to the mid-level. It certainly doesn't say that Raditz isn't assigned to the mid-level, so I don't know why we'd take it on ourselves to say that he isn't.

To me, it just seems that the simplest interpretation is that "mid level warrior (2014)" = "upper level warrior (2018)", and both Nappa and Raditz are on this level, and Bardock and Kakarot are not (though Bardock isn't very far off). I'm not sure what's stopping us from taking these sources at their word and saying so. It seems the simplest interpretation of all, requiring the least wrangling against the plain sense of the sources we have.

"mid-class" is its own distinct thing [...] with its own specific Japanese term that's evidently never been attached to Raditz. I dunno about anyone else but I'm confident that the "Raditz was mid-class" notion is firmly shut down at this point.

I'm not sure how we can conclude this, though. We need to bear in mind that the one time the "mid-class" term is ever used it is, in point of fact, never attached to anyone by the source we have. Not even Nappa - we merely infer that he belongs there because we're determining that "mid-level"(2014) = "upper-level"(2018). The only time anyone is connected with the term is Bardock, to say firmly that he doesn't belong on that level. So I'm not sure what probative value that has when it comes to Raditz's status, or how it "shuts down" anything (except Bardock's status, of course).

Plus, and I know this is partly just an emotional-angle thing, I just straight-up cannot image ANY scenario where Toriyama was trying to tell us that Raditz, the guy who's universally mocked for being a weakling, was ever stronger or held a higher rank than Bardock. Like, as soon as you get past the "Raditz being 'upper-level' as a baby means he was mid-class" misinterpretation, then I don't see any sensible way to come to that conclusion.

But I'm not clear on why this is a "misinterpretation". I get that you don't like the idea very much, but I don't see what's wrong with it logically.

All sources I'm aware of agree that Saiyan class stratification is mostly determined during the incubation and childhood phase of life, even if there is a little bit of wiggle room for social mobility later; I don't see any issue with Kid Raditz having very impressive Battle Power, being assigned the "upper level (2018)"/"mid class (2014)" status, and assigned to Nappa's group as an upper level warrior and a combatant candidate (which seems the most logical place for him - among people of his status and potential capability level), continuing to do well at first and being partnered with the prince, and then not entirely making good on his potential when he grows up, so that the other two survivors identify him as a useless weakling (arguably all the more so, if they feel he doesn't deserve to retain the status he was initially given). Just like students in the same ability-streamed classroom can still have very different aptitude levels for the subject (and someone near the top of that class might think another member of that class is an idiot), so Raditz and Nappa can have the same status but very different adult strengths, and Nappa can disparage him as a weakling.

Moreover, it's definitely possible to overstate how much of a "weakling" Raditz really is in the broader scheme of things; Broly establishes that 1000 BP is good enough to make you desirable to Freeza as a soldier even decades after the Saiyans are gone, and when Freeza takes over from his father, he personally comments that 2000 BP (the BP of a Saiyan assigned to overwatch the King when he meets Freeza, no less) is an impressive number. Framed that way, 1500 BP isn't anything to scoff at on its own terms (it would fit comfortably in the general BP range of the soldiers Freeza selects to take with him to Namek, for instance); it's just nothing much next to these other two combatants. I don't see a problem with that idea at all, or why an interpretation that takes that at face value is necessarily a "preposterous" "misinterpretation", rather than just a different interpretation.

Raditz being considered mid-level, on equal status with Nappa, or upper class though contradicts Daizenshuu in some ways.

Daizenshuu 7's Character Dictionary:

Spoiler:

Raditz | Goku's older brother
First Appearance: chapter 195
Special Characteristics: Goku's true older brother, and Bardock's eldest son. He was raised as a pure-blooded Saiyan, and so has a heartless personality, showing no compassion to his younger brother. Born as a lowest-level warrior, he lacks experience fighting to the death against strong opponents, and so his battle power is of the lowest level for a Saiyan. He also hasn't strengthened his weak spot, the tail, and is called
"weakling Raditz" by his comrades.

Spoiler:

Saibaiman Set
First Appearance: chapter 214
Category: battle item
Explanation: A bio weapon developed by the Saiyans. Vegeta and Nappa used it to force the location of the dragonballs out of Piccolo and co., giving birth to 6 Saibaimen.
Special Characteristics: The seeds and growth fluid are included in a single set. Simply by burying the seeds in the soil, pouring the growth fluid on, and waiting a few seconds, the ghastly shaped Saibaimen will be born. Its biggest distinguishing characteristic is that the Saibaimen's battle power changes based on the condition of the soil. On Earth where the soil is extremely nutritious, Saibaimen are born with battle powers of 1,200, on par with a low-level combatant. Though the Saibaimen themselves cannot speak, they are capable of understanding orders. (Daizenshuu 4, p.153)

It should be noted that with these descriptions, we're in the territory of different terminology again: namely, 最下級戦士 ("Saikakyuusenshi"), or "lowest-level warrior". It's applied to both Raditz and Bardock in Daizenshuu 7 (for Bardock, he's stated to have that status in Solitary Final Battle also, and it doesn't seem like his BP makes any difference to that status). I'm not aware of anything written by Toriyama giving Raditz that status, so I would assume that this is an extrapolation from the compilers, on the basis that Bardock has the status in his Special, and Kakarot is a low-level warrior also, and Raditz is a "weakling" to Nappa and Vegeta. Logical enough at the time, given the information they would've had.

But it doesn't seem that the label can be maintained for Raditz, in the light of later clarifications to Raditz's status from Toriyama in these more recent sources, which specifically state he's an upper-level warrior as a kid (上級戦士). It wouldn't fit very well with Kaboom's interpretation either, since for Raditz to be an upper-level warrior within a lower-level warrior's bracket, Raditz could ipso facto not be lowest-level warrior.

[Kaboom]

Again, the issue with considering "upper-level" and "mid-class" to mean the same thing is... well, they're straight-up not the same term, for one, but they're also not treated as the same thing either. The "upper-level" term is only described as simply being strong enough to become a combatant, sometimes right right away as a kid. The "mid-class" term is described as a very exclusive rank of the strongest-of-the-strongest Saiyans. "Strong enough" versus "exceptionally strong." Raditz was "upper-level," but nothing we've unearthed so far says he was ever "mid-class." If anything we've been told the opposite, that he squandered whatever potential his young self had and his power growth stagnated.

But on the flipside of those two distinct terms, we have the single "kakyuu senshi" term being used in two different ways: First by the 2014 Q&A to refer to "Low-Class" Saiyans who make up >99% of the general population that aren't "mid-class" or "elite," but does include active and higher-ranking combatants like Bardock. And then by the 2018 Q&A to refer to "lower-level" Saiyans who are considered so weak that they don't qualify to become combatants at all. The same term being used in two different ways to refer to two different things. That seems to me to be the only genuine area of confusion in all this, but I still think it's easy enough to just consider it a matter of context rather than a contradiction.

The whole problem with this particular subject that annoyed me enough to make this thread was that people elsewhere were constantly adding their own extra meaning to things. We shouldn't assume Raditz was deliberately placed into that particular combat group because he was somehow deemed worthy of the privilege of working with Nappa specifically if the Q&A tidbit doesn't actually say that. We shouldn't assume the Full-Color Q&A bit about the "pecking order" is referring to the low/mid/elite ranks if it doesn't actually mention them. We shouldn't assume that there's some criss-crossing relationship at work with the ranks of the Freeza Force if it wasn't mentioned in any of the above. And we would shouldn't assume Raditz was a mid-class if nothing's ever actually applied that "chuukyuu senshi" label to him.

I'm trying my best to safely wield Occam's Razor here and stick to the simplest, fewest-assumptions way to fit this all together, and the "two tiers within the broader low-class" method laid out in my chart still seems to be the best answer. It satisfies all the different labels and descriptions applied to these characters — e.g. "Bardock is low-class but does combat duty" and "li'l Raditz looks down on baby Kakarot for being weak but neither of them are mid-class" — without presuming that any of them are anything they're not actually said to be.

But I do like the point you brought up about how the "chuukyuu senshi" term was technically never applied to Nappa, either. Of course I still hold that there was just a terminology shift from the "elite" and "super-elite" terms of the original manga and so Nappa would fall into "mid-class" by default from that, but... It'd be kind of funny if after all this hubbub both Raditz AND Nappa were simply normal "upper-level" combatants and the latter was never "mid-class" either.

-------

EDIT: Holy hell, I've just noticed that the "joukyuu senshi" term was also used in the 2014 Q&A to refer to the super-duper extra-strong tier that only King and Prince Vegeta belonged to, which Herms translated as just "Elite."

So now in addition to "kakyuu senshi" being used to refer to both "99% of all Saiyans" in the 2014 Q&A and the "too weak to even fight" rejects in the 2018 ones, we also have "joukyuu senshi" being used to describe the "born strong enough to fight" tier folks like Raditz and the "royal family stronger than literally everyone else" tier. None of this makes any friggin' sense anymore.

You know, I'm starting to think that this whole discussion is pointless, and rather than there being any actual intent behind the different terms, it's all just a matter of Toriyama absent-mindedly using the same words for different things in separate interviews that were several years apart. I'm also beginning to suspect that Herms may have coined these alternate "upper-level" and "lower-level" terms for the 2018 Q&A's translation to actually try mitigating some of this flip-floppy confusion.

I'm this close to just saying "fuck it" and sticking to the original run's labels of "low-class" (Bardock, Raditz, Goku), "Elite" (Nappa), and "Super-Elite" (Vegeta). After all, most if not all of this modern terminology confusion revolves solely around the shitty modern era of the franchise, which I already disregard in basically every other context, so why not for this too?

At least I can still take comfort in knowing that the "mid-class" ("chuukyuu senshi") label was never applied to Raditz regardless.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Toriyama is talking about two different things here. Only in the 2014 quote he's talking specifically about Saiyan ranks in low/mid/elite. In 2018 he's just being more general and basically saying "Weak babies are discarded, strong babies fight". The full color manga is the vaguest of them all - Vegeta is stronger, therefore he is the boss and the other two are his mooks. It's weird because Nappa can still bully Raditz around if he wants to, so whether they're in the same class or not doesn't really matter.

Raditz has the power of a run of the mill Freeza mook. That's not a top 12 fighter of the strongest race in the universe by any means. The final nail in the coffin for "middle class Raditz" is in DBS: Broly, where Freeza is looking for PLs of at least 1,000 to join his army. You can't tell me that from 1k to 1.5k is a class change, but 1.5 to 4k is the same.

As for Bardock, I think the manga has reinstated his old power: Gas says Bardock is quite better than your average Saiyan when they start fighting (way before that thing, which may or may not have been a permanent boost, happened). I never particularly cared about Bardock and would rather he was just another fodder Saiyan, but turns out even Toyotaro can't shy away from the coolness of the TV Special.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Oh, my. That's a lot of "Edit", right there.

I appreciate you trying to grapple with this issue and make it as straightforward as you can, for consistency's sake, despite your distaste for the more recent subject matter. I agree that Akira Toriyama almost certainly had no particular care for consistency of terminology between these sources we're discussing (I'd rather taken that as a "given" of the discussion, to be honest). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's impossible to get something straightforward and consistent from these sources despite the confusion of nomenclature, for the simple reason that these different names nevertheless refer to the same in-universe "realities", which are pretty stable no matter what they're called.

For instance, it's how we can agree so readily on what Nappa's status is across sources, despite him not even being mentioned in the 2014 Q&A:

• Nappa is not "low level" (DB Chapter 225 - he calls himself "Elite" in contradistinction to Goku, who he calls "low level/class" - if there's one thing I think even Toriyama can be relied on to recall throughout, and does, it's that Goku = Low Class among Saiyans);
• He's not in the same class as Vegeta (2014 Q&A: Only the Vegetas belong to the class/level they occupy; also the Manga implies a difference in level by use of the terms "Elite" and "Super Elite");
• The 2014 Q&A only uses "upper level", "mid level" and "low level" to describe classes. Nappa isn't "upper level" in this schema because only the Vegeta's are, but he's also not "low level". So in this source, he must be covered by "mid level";
• The 2018 Q&A only uses "low level" and "upper level" to describe classes, and "upper level" is used for characters other than Vegeta so isn't identical to what the 2014 Q&A calls "upper level". And Nappa isn't "low level", so he therefore must be covered by "upper level". This conclusion is reinforced by having him associated with and in charge of people who are directly described as "upper level";
• So, Nappa is "Elite" (Manga) -> "Mid Level" (2014) -> "Upper Level" (2018). While the nomenclature is all over the place, there's a consistency of referent here which permits equivalency between these differing terminologies, and makes the comprehension really quite straightforward.

So there's no need to throw hands up and say "fuck it", just yet. All we need to do is apply principles like the foregoing more broadly - hence why I see no issue with your objection that the sources aren't using the same terms; it's kind of beside the point. But it does also mean that I need to address a specific, much more important point about how you're interpreting the 2018 Q&A:

The "upper-level" term is only described as simply being strong enough to become a combatant, sometimes right right away as a kid. [...] But on the flipside of those two distinct terms, we have the single "kakyuu senshi" term being used in two different ways: First by the 2014 Q&A to refer to "Low-Class" Saiyans who make up >99% of the general population that aren't "mid-class" or "elite," but does include active and higher-ranking combatants like Bardock. And then by the 2018 Q&A to refer to "lower-level" Saiyans who are considered so weak that they don't qualify to become combatants at all. The same term being used in two different ways to refer to two different things. That seems to me to be the only genuine area of confusion in all this, but I still think it's easy enough to just consider it a matter of context rather than a contradiction.

The issue underlying this set of interpretations is that you're treating the 2018 Q&A as though it is saying that "low level Saiyans don't become combatants, only upper level Saiyans do." But the 2018 Q&A is not saying this. The 2018 Q&A is actually saying "low level Saiyan children don't become combatants, only upper level Saiyan children do" (the Q&A is, after all, addressing the question of how Saiyans become combatants and whether or not they all do). And this is a crucial distinction to make, because once you see that the only bar to combatant assignment is among low level children and not low level adults (it is actually assumed that low level adults will make up part of the fighting force because they're the Infiltration Baby Returnees, for one thing), then there is no need to understand the "low level" part of Saiyan Society as requiring a distinctively-termed "upper level" component to answer the question of where Saiyans get the vast majority of their combatants from. They simply mostly get them from low level adults who have had to claw their way into that position from difficult circumstances. So the 2018 Q&A isn't asserting that only upper level Saiyans can be combatants.

While the 2018 Q&A says the survival rate for Infiltration Babies isn't high, they are nevertheless sent to weaker worlds (as Raditz states in Chapter 197 and Vegeta re-emphasises in Chapter 228) and there is some expectation that at least a goodly number will prevail even though they aren't combatants (for instance, Raditz is baffled and aggravated that Goku hasn't - which would be a strange reaction if he were expected not to do so), so they should make up a non-negligible proportion of the fighting force of a small species (per DB Minus, only several thousand in toto). But that also means there's no need for us to posit that a low level Saiyan adult returning to become a combatant also occasions a change in class status/nomenclature - they're still low level warriors and termed as such; they've just successfully done what they were meant to do, proven their mettle and are now low level warrior combatants. By contrast, the upper level warrior children are directly advanced and trained as combatants from the outset, while still children, as reflects their superior ability; they therefore are, by definition, exceptional among their peers (which aligns just fine with what you're saying about the "Mid level" in the 2014 Q&A - there doesn't seem to be any contradiction of referent, there, despite use of different terminology).

Once you get past this, there's no obstacle or confusion to reading 2018's "upper level" and "low level" as meaning (by its own terms) exactly that, nor is there any obstacle or confusion to maintaining that there is a consistent equivalency between "low level" (2014) and "low level" (2018) on the one hand, and "mid level" (2014) and "upper level" (2018) on the other. And, consequently, Raditz being actually straightforwardly "upper level" (2018) -> same status as Nappa (2013) -> Mid level (2014) doesn't need forcing, but just falls neatly and easily into place without dragging along anything logically problematic that I can see, or by making unwarranted assumptions.

It's weird because Nappa can still bully Raditz around if he wants to, so whether they're in the same class or not doesn't really matter.

Not trying to be offhand with you about it, but if the question you're trying to answer is "Are Nappa and Raditz in the same class?", then it sort of does really matter. One might say it constitues the whole issue.

Raditz has the power of a run of the mill Freeza mook. That's not a top 12 fighter of the strongest race in the universe by any means. The final nail in the coffin for "middle class Raditz" is in DBS: Broly, where Freeza is looking for PLs of at least 1,000 to join his army. You can't tell me that from 1k to 1.5k is a class change, but 1.5 to 4k is the same.

What I can tell you is that Raditz would not have had his class/level assigned him on the basis of this adult BP of 1500; as with practically all other Saiyans, he would have been measured and assigned his class/level as a child (and he was still only a child when the Planet Vegeta was blown up, along with all its attendant social structures and any means it may have had of reassessing social placements among its citizenry).

How strong he turned out to be around 25 years later is irrelevant to the question of which social bracket he was placed in by his culture on the basis of his childhood capacities.

[Kaboom]

The issue underlying this set of interpretations is that you're treating the 2018 Q&A as though it is saying that "low level Saiyans don't become combatants, only upper level Saiyans do." But the 2018 Q&A is not saying this. The 2018 Q&A is actually saying "low level Saiyan children don't become combatants, only upper level Saiyan children do" (the Q&A is, after all, addressing the question of how Saiyans become combatants and whether or not they all do).

Ah yeah, I see what you mean. Basically that there are "normal" Saiyan adults who weren't "upper-level" kids but can still eventually become combatants anyway. Most infiltration babies probably don't get the chance but if, like... Beets the Engineer from the nuBroli movie decided to start pumping iron and get stronger, then he could feasibly become a combatant too.

I did realize that from the beginning, but it kind of got overshadowed by my larger "just because an 'upper-level' baby gets fast-tracked into a combat job doesn't mean they're automatically 'mid-class' too" point. Which I still hold to, because...

What I can tell you is that Raditz would not have had his class/level assigned him on the basis of this adult BP of 1500; as with practically all other Saiyans, he would have been measured and assigned his class/level as a child (and he was still only a child when the Planet Vegeta was blown up, along with all its attendant social structures and any means it may have had of reassessing social placements among its citizenry).

...For me it keeps coming back to the "there were only about 10 mid-class Saiyans" part. Putting aside how the "high/upper level" term was used in the 2014 Q&A, where it definitely doesn't include Raditz because his name's not Vegeta... if being a 2018 "upper level" kid was enough to also be automatically considered a 2014 "mid-class," then you'd expect there to be a lot more than just 10 of them. Because it wouldn't just include those up-and-coming strong kids, but also any adults who were already "mid-class" before them.

Having so absurdly few of them makes it very hard to believe that it's just a matter of being born into a higher social class. Rather, it comes off as being something much more illustrious that you usually have to earn your way into.

So maybe SOME extra-special kids were actually born strong enough that they were already considered "mid-class," at least provisionally. Like maybe baby Broli, if King Vegeta wasn't a jealous prick. But based on how few mid-classes there were overall, I think that would be very rare. And since the specific term for "mid-class" was never applied to Raditz, and he's near-universally labeled and treated as a waste-of-potential weakling... I don't think we should assume he was a mid-class, either as a kid or an adult.

Toriyama is talking about two different things here. Only in the 2014 quote he's talking specifically about Saiyan ranks in low/mid/elite. In 2018 he's just being more general and basically saying "Weak babies are discarded, strong babies fight". The full color manga is the vaguest of them all - Vegeta is stronger, therefore he is the boss and the other two are his mooks. It's weird because Nappa can still bully Raditz around if he wants to, so whether they're in the same class or not doesn't really matter.

Raditz has the power of a run of the mill Freeza mook. That's not a top 12 fighter of the strongest race in the universe by any means. The final nail in the coffin for "middle class Raditz" is in DBS: Broly, where Freeza is looking for PLs of at least 1,000 to join his army. You can't tell me that from 1k to 1.5k is a class change, but 1.5 to 4k is the same.

All very true. It's easy to get lost in the minutiae with topics like this and lose sight of the big picture. And even if one finds a way to assign the same rank or "status" to Raditz as to Nappa through tricky terminology technicalities... it doesn't jive with how the material actually treats him, or how his power (which is what all of this is based upon) is actually shown to compare to other characters. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's logical.

...turns out even Toyotaro can't shy away from the coolness of the TV Special.

Nobody can.

[miguelnuva1]

I personally don't see a problem with

Goku/Gine low level low class

Bardock/Raditz upper level low class

Nappa mid class

Vegeta/King Vegeta elite.

[ankokudaishogun]

so, putting everything together...

Saiyans born "weak" are either made into non-combat roles or get a chance as warriors as infiltration babies, which is very dangerous.

Non-weak Saiyans instead get to grow enough to get (some?)training before being sent to fight

Saiyan social pyramid is thus:

1. Super Elite=High-Rank Warriors: the Royal Family. They are comparable to mid-ranked Frieza soldiers(Giant Ape form aside which shoots them to Elite Frieza Force)
2. Elite=Mid-Rank Warriors: the famous Nine Saiyans, Nappa among them. Either lower side echelons of the Mid-ranked Frieza soldiers or the upper echelons of the low-ranked soldiers
3. Low-Rank Warrios: most of the warrior population, with quite the range of power-levels. Lowest tier of Frieza soldiers.
   Here we find Goku, Raditz and Bardock. Bardock might have been among the strongest Low-Rank Warriors, but realistically he never reached beyond 2000 until the events of the TV special\Granolla flashback chapter which were both too close to his death for him to ever get a chance at promotion.
4. Non-Warriors. I suppose a Non-Warrior might get promoted to Low-Ranked Warrior if they end up in a battle and actually manage to fight their way to victory.

[Magnificent Ponta]

...For me it keeps coming back to the "there were only about 10 mid-class Saiyans" part. Putting aside how the "high/upper level" term was used in the 2014 Q&A, where it definitely doesn't include Raditz because his name's not Vegeta... if being a 2018 "upper level" kid was enough to also be automatically considered a 2014 "mid-class," then you'd expect there to be a lot more than just 10 of them. Because it wouldn't just include those up-and-coming strong kids, but also any adults who were already "mid-class" before them.

Possibly - "10 people or so" (however much wiggle room ほど might afford) is indeed a very small number.

But then, that also allows one to turn the problem around, and note that since there are so few "mid level warriors (2014)", it must also mean that very few are being born in the first place (just think: how many official child combatants do we even see in Dragon Ball? Just Raditz and Vegeta in Minus/Broly, right? And Vegeta isn't mid level; he has a class practically to himself), and fewer still surviving as combatants for an appreciable length of time. They are, after all, the ones sent to crack the planets with more advanced civilisations that give fiercer resistance.

With tiny numbers being born of the required level, and a reasonable attrition rate that would be expected of any group at the "sharp end", you could make a reasonable case for a rolling "10人ほど", with several individuals churning around more permanent fixtures in the class.

Having so absurdly few of them makes it very hard to believe that it's just a matter of being born into a higher social class. Rather, it comes off as being something much more illustrious that you usually have to earn your way into.

Possibly - I had considered the possibility that the 2018 Q&A might be referencing some kind of parallel assessment structure for children, pending confirmation in later life (So, Raditz would be an "upper level warrior" and a "combatant candidate", but not yet formally assigned a class until his candidacy is completed - there is a hint of the provisional in noting that at some point or other, he was technically just a "combatant candidate" - sentou'in koho, 戦闘員候補 - rather than straightforwardly a "combatant" - his "upper level warrior" status could be seen to be directly linked to that, without a conclusion yet being made about class).

But the issue with that (apart from that it duplicates solutions beyond strict necessity), and with the idea that the mid level is usually earned, is that (aside from the 2014 Q&A caveat that specifies that if one's BP increases greatly one can rise from being a low level warrior to becoming a mid level warrior - said caveat very much reads to me as the 'exception that proves the rule'), everything we're told about Saiyan social stratification in our various sources indicates that it's otherwise determined and assigned during childhood - infancy, really - and is very hard to change even with a lifetime of combat, rather than being something that is constantly reviewed and very fluid. For instance, Kakarot's social status as a low level warrior is determined before he even comes out of his incubator; Bardock is likewise pretty sure at the same point in Kakarot's development that his fate as an infiltration baby is basically decided. It seems very unlikely that Raditz will become a proper child combatant (candidate) without a clear social status assigned to go with it. And everything we have pertaining to child Raditz in our sources indicates what whatever that status is, it isn't that of a "low level warrior", because "low level warrior" children don't become combatants. So what's left to give him?

So maybe SOME extra-special kids were actually born strong enough that they were already considered "mid-class," at least provisionally. Like maybe baby Broli, if King Vegeta wasn't a jealous prick.

Well, surely if Broly had been assigned a formal class in the normal manner, instead of being termed a "freak" and exiled, he would have been a "Super Elite"/"upper level warrior (2014)" rather than a "mid level warrior (2014)", because he was stronger than Prince Vegeta, who is in turn a "Super Elite"/"upper level warrior (2014)".

But based on how few mid-classes there were overall, I think that would be very rare. And since the specific term for "mid-class" was never applied to Raditz, and he's near-universally labeled and treated as a waste-of-potential weakling... I don't think we should assume he was a mid-class, either as a kid or an adult.

Well, I'm quite comfortable with the idea that it's rare (as I'm noting above in this post) - Raditz is, when you think about it, the only "proper" child combatant ("upper level warrior (2018)") we ever see in Dragon Ball who even could potentially be called a "mid level warrior (2014)" (Vegeta being his own special case); we know of no others, even if we infer that they are likely to exist. As such, Raditz is at the front of the queue for that status by default. I think a goodly number of people are still influenced by the negative judgements that we see about his adult self in the original work to read those judgements back into his childhood and conclude that he "must have been" low level back then, but that has things backwards: his class would already have been determined before those judgements were made, and all the modern sources we have that do mention or depict him as a child point in completely the opposite direction.

I can agree there's no real issue in refraining from concluding that Raditz is "mid level" for the time being, but hopefully I've also made my point that the arguments affirming it are actually a legitimate different interpretation that is not as problematic as it might at first seem, rather than something that should be dismissed as a flat misinterpretation (which is all I really wanted to do here - you may not be convinced by the position, but hopefully you're no longer annoyed by it ).

I think that that's probably all that can be said on the sources we've looked at for the time being without repeating our points further, so unless you consider you have some further insight to share (which of course I would be pleased to consider) I will conclude my contributions to the exchange here. At this point I'd also like to reiterate your earlier note that it would be helpful and appreciated if anyone is able to provide direct access to the 2013 Full Color Manga Q&As so that we might be able to look at the terminology there, and thank you for your time and conversation on this; it's been a pleasure to chew over things with you.

• Non-Warriors. I suppose a Non-Warrior might get promoted to Low-Ranked Warrior if they end up in a battle and actually manage to fight their way to victory.

Just a passing note on this, as the term "promoted" caught my eye. Not to say this is wrong - it seems logical that being a combatant carries important added prestige in a warrior race - but I'm not sure we have any source that outright states that, say, being a low level warrior non-combatant carries lower social class status than being a low level warrior combatant. Saiyan social class assignment is based on (potential) strength, whereas being a combatant or not is at least partially due to aptitude for discharging that function - those things are of course linked (it's unlikely that they'd be an effective combatant if they don't have a certain baseline of power), but not necessarily identical.

Take the case of Gine - this is a low level warrior who moves from being a combatant to a non-combatant. She's on Bardock's team of combatants initially, so she must be powerful enough to have made her way to being a combatant in the first place. It's her lack of aptitude for fighting that gets her shifted from being a combatant to a non-combatant, but I haven't seen anything in writing that indicates she is thus "demoted" socially to something below 下級戦士 - it's just that her function within her class changes.

As I say, not something I want to push hard, but something I thought was worth noting in passing (particularly if there is something to indicate otherwise that I haven't yet noted).

[ankokudaishogun]

Your point about promotion and Gine is appreciated, really. Once I get a keyboard and time the next few days I'll write more about it.

[Magnificent Ponta]

As a follow-up on this topic, I've just acquired the 2013 Q&A where Raditz and Nappa and their status are discussed. I can give a scan of the relevant page if it's desired, but here's the complete statement in Japanese:

Q7. ベジータ、ナッパ、ラヂィッツの上下関係は？
A. ベジータだけは王族だが…
ベジータは王子なので強さから上の立場です。だけどラヂィッツとナッパの立場は同等です。

Q7. Bejiita, Nappa, Radittsu no jougekankei wa?
A. Bejiita dake wa ouzoku daga…
Bejiita wa ouji na node tsuyosa kara ue no tachiba desu. Dakedo Radittsu to Nappa no tachiba wa doutou desu.

So the wording we've been interested in from the translation we originally had would be "pecking order", which is 上下関係 (jougekankei), and "equal status", which is 立場は同等です (tachiba wa doutou desu). 上下関係 seems to be rendered quite literally; "pecking order" is the first meaning you get if you look it up ("hierarchical relationship" also features, if you want a less idiomatic phrasing). So that seems quite precise; the question is about what the hierarchical relationship is between the three. So you could argue that the bounds of the question are quite narrow and only extend to the trio as a trio without bringing in broader context. But then you could counter that idea with the fact that the answer immediately brings in Vegeta's social status as royalty, which is the broader context. So your mileage may vary, I guess.

As for "equal status", 立場 (tachiba) refers to "position" more generally - it doesn't seem to relate to social status particularly, but isn't so definitive that it excludes it either (it seems to be about as flexible and general an expression as "position" is in English usage, encompassing things like one's general situation, or standpoint/point of view, or appointed role). 同等 (doutou) means "equal", "equality", "equivalence", and can apparently extend to meaning stuff like "same rank". But whichever specific form of words you go for, the meaning is that Vegeta is on top and there is no hierarchical distinction between Nappa and Raditz. I guess you could take the view that this is saying that Nappa and Raditz's positions are equivalent (in a hard-and-fast way: that is, they're "equals"), or you could take it to mean that it's just saying that Nappa isn't Raditz's boss (he doesn't occupy a "higher position" in that sense).

Either way, unless I've made some blunder here, I don't think the sheer wording of this statement does anything much to "move the needle" in anybody's interpretations; you can read it either way - which I guess is why the translation we have is similarly open. Still, I thought I'd share the snippet anyway, to round out that element of the topic as brought by the OP.