Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 2 - Official Discussion Thread

[Yuji]

Finally got around to watching this episode. There was a lot more meat on this one, compared to #01 which was mostly a recap and loredump, so I have a lot more thoughts:

• I do like the new Shenlong rule. It retroactively explains why only one wish was granted in Broly. Though it comes into conflict with RF, as two wishes were granted in the movie, and three in the anime. The two in the movie never made sense unless you consider reviving Freeza as such a powerful wish due to how long ago he died, that the dragon needed two wishes to fulfill it. The three in the anime is consistent with Dende's Shenlong ability. But now with this new rule, it presents a problem: Sorbet is a first-timer so he should have only been allowed one wish; if Shenlong noticed Pilaf (who has wished on the dragon balls twice, once in the first arc, another in the Cell arc off-screen to turn into children), then he should have been granted all three, like in the anime. So the movie fails to adjust for this, and the anime in its correction, got it right both then and now. The manga one-shot, curiously, only gave one wish, which is consistent with Shenlong acknowledging Sorbet as the wish maker. Just a fun bit of trivia.
• It seems they took the opportunity to replace everyone's voice actor besides Goku, Bulma and Chi-Chi (?). I don't think Vegeta is Horikawa, but someone correct me. Piccolo definitely isn't Furukawa, or Kuririn Tanaka. Bulma and Chi-Chi were already new, so Nozawa is really the only veteran still here. I wonder if this will be permanent once they revert back to adults.
• Now that the characters have finally reverted into children, I can confidently say I find the designs boring. Bulma has had the same bowl cut for a decade. She's always been showing off new hait styles. Goku's Gi is slightly different but still the same old. Vegeta is back with the armor. Piccolo had a child design already and they could have reused it since it was fittingly more demonic-looking. I do like how Kuririn lost his hair, but if everyone is getting their old hair style back, why is Roshi still bald or Bulma and Chi-Chi stuck with their hair styles? More puzzingly perhaps, why was Boo affected at all? And if he was affected, why isn't his appearance more similar to Kid Boo's?
• I wonder if Gohan's absence is due to Toriyama being uninterested in using the character, or if they're saving his reveal later to show off a Cell Games-like appearance, complete with SS2 or maybe a chibified Ultimate state. It's the only time period in the series where he could still show off his strength. But I suspect he will make no appearance at all.
• Dabra's father shows up in the OP, or a family member of some sort. I expected his name to be mentioned last episode purely as a fun fact and a pun with Abracadabra, but this combined with the lore about the different kings from the different demon realm locations explored in this episode, seems they will indeed delve into some lore about the Demon Realm royalty lineages, which is fun enough. I hope we get some flashback scenes of Dabra doing stuff.
• I have to say I don't like the OP. The visuals are nice and the hook is catchy enough, but the rest of the song doesn't do it for me. Lame lyrics, uninteresting synth melody. It's down there with Chozetsu Dynamic and Ku Zen Zetsu Go as the worst OPs in the series.
• I noticed this in episode 1, but with this episode as well I noticed there are a lot of explanations. Toriyama usually just introduced new elements and barely ever bothered to explain away contradictions unless it was a major change or retcon. This series is actively explaining even minute details. I was surprised when they explained why Neva couldn't just gather the DBs in the Demon Realm, or on Earth a second time. The aforementioned new wish rule. Last episode, the various specifcations about the wish's ages and conditions. Etc, etc. It seems the staff or Toriyama really took the time to explain away any potential question that may arise. That isn't very Dragon Ball-like, but does reassure me regarding the planning that went on.
• It's really nice to see the characters interacting again. You can tell this is Toriyama's work based on how organically they bounce off each other. I think this is the first and only time Roshi's gags have been funny.
• The bull in the OP and the various environments and character designs really give me this more of a Blue Dragon vibe, rather than Dragon Quest as some folks are likening it to.
• Kaioshin mentions the characters need permission to leave the Demon Realm. I'm surprised nobody asked "permission from who?" Probably so, chronologically, the greater DBS God hierarchy isn't introduced before its rightful time, but this, along with many other details, does show that the series is still following the cosmology that Super introduced and isn't just doing its own thing.
• With that said, Kaioshin being implied to have come from the Demon World does raise some eyebrows. As far as we know, all Shinjin are born on a different realm and then are either brought to their respective universe, or banished to the Demon World. I wonder if Shin was referring to the Core world when he mentioned the spaceship, and if this lore will be explored or retconned later.
• I wonder if Piccolo's knowledge of the Demon Realm comes from Nail or God. Probably Nail, since God didn't know anything about Namek. I would have liked for him to mention it, though.
• I like how the characters are noticing the challenges in fighting as children, and realistic challenges too, like their sense of balance and distance being thrown off but nevertheless adjusting after a couple of days or compensating with weapons like the Nyoibo. GT Goku had no pitfalls aside from losing a lot of energy as SS3 and not being able to use IT, which made no sense. This is a much more realistic approach to nerfing the characters, which I appreciate.
• With that ending, it seems we have our squad: two teams, composed of 7 (or 8, with that fat demon in the OP) members once Panzy joins. I'm glad Piccolo is coming along. I could have done without Vegeta, since the only interesting thing that's been done with the character post-Boo has been in the manga with Toyotaro's original arcs, but I'm open to seeing him develop in a unique way here if possible.
• The ED is a clear reference to GT's Hittori Janai. A lot of GT similarities at this point to be just a coincidence. I'd rather get new stories in a new time period, but I'm also not against improving on older stories by retelling them differently. GT's first arc was a mess, and this seems much more tightly written and focused so far.

[TechExpert2021]

How Daima presents the episode title reminds me of how certain American series (not just cartoons but also live-action series and sitcoms) did the same (with the only difference being that no opening credits appear as the opening credits already appear in the opening of Daima).



And it's a shame to me that Toei ditched the two-sentence episode title structure (and in rare cases, the three-sentence episode title structure) in this series. I would love to have episode titles structured in the formula of "An exaggerated statement, explanation, or question!!? A statement with either the inclusion or omission of one or two exclamation marks!!".

[JulieYBM]

I really like how Shin is Having A Plot and stuff. It feels like there's actual writing going on and like the story is trying to not just hop into a fight immediately, which I really like.

If Shin is from the Demon Realm himself, I'm curious if becoming a Kaioushin was something that he was uniquely qualified for or if he was trying to escape his evil family and fell into the role?

[Makaioshin]

One of Toriyama's final creative acts was doubling down on Popo and revealing that he is actually a demon with little horns under there.

Not too much to say about the episode -- just more set up but this time on the end of the protagonists. I am curious about the origin of the Shinjin now. Are they actually from the demon realm or a separate world? Seemingly mixed signals so far.

[MisteryOne]

Learning from Ajay's video that thos was originally just a side story, my expectations should be lowered. But so far, this episode was cool! Didn't feature the comedic timing and animation of the first one but still added more lore. The Shenlong bit is...questionable, but everything else was a nice set up.

That being said...the opening is beautiful, and very cleber how they reference Toriyama. But the cast of characters is huge! I was expecting Piccolo and Vegeta to deal with something on Earth, not following around. Yeah they will be separated but still.

The minotaur in the opening looks straight out of Blue Dragon. That and the varios spaceships a really Toriyama-like. He really was more involved.

Oh and the most important thing: the voice actors! I wasn't actually expecting them to change, it was weird but kind of amusing. It will take a time to get used to.

[Yuji]

The more I think about it, the less I like the decision to include Vegeta in this story. He seems to have no connection beyond being Goku's rival, and that's just a tradition at this point. He's such a boring character at this point in his life. The only thing I look forward to are Piccolo and Vegeta interactions.

I'd rather much have Boo, whom the story is actually based around. He would bounce nicely off of everyone.

[jjgp1112]

A lot of talking..again.
Dis they forget that action is a huge part of Dragon Ball as well, even of the original DB?

It's really beginning to feel like GT, only without the action or great music.

I found it weird how some of the characters had the same VA while others didn't. The new VA did a good job but it creates an inconsistency that was annoying. Piccolo barely sounded different.

Local user finds out action shows aren't wall to wall action!

[AliTheZombie13]

The more I think about it, the less I like the decision to include Vegeta in this story. He seems to have no connection beyond being Goku's rival, and that's just a tradition at this point. He's such a boring character at this point in his life. The only thing I look forward to are Piccolo and Vegeta interactions.

I'd rather much have Boo, whom the story is actually based around. He would bounce nicely off of everyone.

As long as he doesn't go, "KAKAROT #1???? AKLFHAKLGVAKLFHALFHALHLAFHLAKHFLAHF (Does something incredibly stupid to set everyone back 20 episodes)", I don't mind him. But yeah, his character is boring as hell and that particular trait has been milked to hell to keep him relevant.

On the note of the GT similarities, I do wonder if Glorio will pull a Giru later on...

[SSGpotota]

My only complaint is Goku explicitly deciding to not use the Nimbus. You had the perfect excuse!
At least we got the pole back. I wonder if they're gonna pull out some excuse to bring back the tails too...

[JulieYBM]

Glorio's disposition in these first two episodes makes him pretty ripe for a "betrays Gokuu and friends" twist. I'm curious to learn what exactly Glorio is truly after, though. Perhaps he works for a faction that actually wants to cause revolution within the Demon Realm and bringing and end to the role now fileld by Gomah is key to that?

[DBFanGuy]

Maybe Glorio wants the role of demon king.

[fadeddreams5]

It doesn't make sense that only the main cast became small. Everybody on Earth helped fight Majin Buu when they provided energy to the spirit bomb. If the wish meant those that literally fought him, then characters like Master Roshi and Bulma shouldn't be small.

Yes, the one who literally fought him, and all their friends:


No issues here. Though, I now have to wonder if they're explicitly avoiding to show Gohan, because at least some of his classmates should have been considered "friends" as well.

I've completely forgotten about Gohan. Omg, I hope he has his saiyan saga design. Even as a child, he should be the strongest character in this timeline.

[Thouser]

- Why is Mr. Popo saying "Namek"? He should still have his memories and recall calling them Namekians, even if the Demon Realm characters call them Nameks. (In an unrelated note, his voice actor doesn't appear to be doing the whole broken Japanese thing (or maybe he is and I just have bad hearing) and I very much appreciate that.)

- If Piccolo knew the Namekians were from the Demon Realm this whole time, why did he still call them 'Namekians' in Super and not 'Nameks' like he does here? Is this series actually just ignoring Super?

I can't find the original post that pointed this out but I believe the translation distinction comes from the difference between Namekku-jin and Namekkusei-jin. I think it has to do with whether a person is actually a Namek or if they're originally from Planet Namek.

I was under the impression that 'sei' after a number shows how many generations you are from a first generation person born in Japan. If I'm getting that right, then 'nisei' would mean you are ethnically Japanese but born in a different country.

I'm not fluent in Japanese by any means, just a casual student so if anyone has a better understanding of that distinction than me, then by all means feel free to correct or confirm.

Those are two different “sei”s.

The “sei” in Namekkusei-jin is 星, which means star or planet.

So the subs using “Namek” instead of “Namekian” would seem to be because the show is making a distinction between a “Namek person” (ナメック人) and a “Planet Namek person” (ナメック星人). Or maybe the subs are just weird. After all, didn’t the early Funimation dubs translate Namekkusei-jin as just “Namek,” too? Also, has anyone actually said “Namekkusei-jin” in Daima yet? Maybe they’re just revising the terminology instead of making a distinction? Namekku-jin sounds more like “namekuji” (slug), which could be a reason.

The “sei” that’s a suffix for generations is a different Chinese character (世). Nisei means “second generation” in general and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with being “from” anywhere.

[dragonballhero]

Once again, I'm actually quite appreciative of this episode going out of its way to explain things for us and not just jump into the story with little rhyme and reason the way GT did. For one thing, it's nice to see Goku and the gang will have to "retrain" themselves on some level to adjust for their current situation.

I personally LOVED the Shenron gag. Ngl, this honestly makes what happens to Shenron in GT's final arc hit me even harder, knowing that Shenron actually holds some affection for Goku and the gang...
Well, if he feels the same in THAT continuity, at least.

If nothing else, it definitely feels more natural HERE than it did in GT, where Goku simply couldn't maintain SSJ3 for long and lost access to I.T.. All in all, this was something I was hoping for, so I'm intrigued to see how far they can take this.

Also love the intro and ending themes. Really scream 'DB' to me.

BTW, VERY surprised to see nearly everyone (even the female characters and Krillin) got new VA's except for Goku (and by extension, Goten). Makes me wonder what DB's future will be like going forward. On that note, Gohan and Videl... what's going on with them, anyways?

[tonysoprano300]

That was awesome, this genuinely feels like classic Dragon ball to me. Seeing Kid Goku again is really nostalgic

[Yuji]

I wonder why Karin wasn't turned into a kitten.

[PeteyVX]

Those are two different “sei”s.

The “sei” in Namekkusei-jin is 星, which means star or planet.

So the subs using “Namek” instead of “Namekian” would seem to be because the show is making a distinction between a “Namek person” (ナメック人) and a “Planet Namek person” (ナメック星人). Or maybe the subs are just weird. After all, didn’t the early Funimation dubs translate Namekkusei-jin as just “Namek,” too? Also, has anyone actually said “Namekkusei-jin” in Daima yet? Maybe they’re just revising the terminology instead of making a distinction? Namekku-jin sounds more like “namekuji” (slug), which could be a reason.

The “sei” that’s a suffix for generations is a different Chinese character (世). Nisei means “second generation” in general and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with being “from” anywhere.

Oh I get it now, not sei, but sei. Joking aside, thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it! Every Namekian is a Namek, but not every Namek is a Namekian.

[tonysoprano300]

Good:
- Pacing is better this time around. The setup is interesting with moderate stakes and mysterious motives. Curious to see where it'll go.
- Piccolo and Vegeta will join eventually. While I don't really give a damn about Vegeta, it's nice Piccolo will get some spotlight for once.

Misc:
- Where the hell is Gohan and Tenshinhan? Would be good to see Lunch again, too.
- At one point, I was hoping that they would follow through with the concept that the characters are nerfed. "Oh, they can't fly anymore. That's good, now Goku will get to have the Kinto Un back and- Nope, they're back to being OP." Speaking of, there were more than a couple times I asked myself this episode, "Is there any reason Goku can't teleport?"
- A lot of the information introduced in this episode was a hard sell.
-- "Three wishes are for regulars." Since when?
-- "I know about this Neva guy from long ago." But I thought you didn't have any memories of your pre-Earth life? How do you know that?
-- "Long ago, I came to this universe in a spaceship." Did all of your Boo-killed siblings come along with you or...?
- "I don't sense an Evil Ki." - In the words of the immortal TFS raging about GT: "Ki has intent now!"

The three wishs for regulars thing is very curious but I suppose its an attempt to rectify ROF and the Broly film? I like how this change basically means Porunga DGAF given that he granted 3 wishes to Moro in Super.

Technically Nails memories are apart of Piccolo aren’t they? Maybe Nail knows about him.

I'm actually ok with them still having retained some of their adult abilities, I think bringing back all of the familiar iconography sounds nice in theory but in the spirit of DB, there are just some things that Goku has outgrown. In fact, i feel pretty confident that he has all of his adult power but the sudden body change means he has to relearn how to bring it out. Which is fairly similar to what Ginyu went through when he stole Goku’s body.

[DBFanGuy]

Those are two different “sei”s.

The “sei” in Namekkusei-jin is 星, which means star or planet.

So the subs using “Namek” instead of “Namekian” would seem to be because the show is making a distinction between a “Namek person” (ナメック人) and a “Planet Namek person” (ナメック星人). Or maybe the subs are just weird. After all, didn’t the early Funimation dubs translate Namekkusei-jin as just “Namek,” too? Also, has anyone actually said “Namekkusei-jin” in Daima yet? Maybe they’re just revising the terminology instead of making a distinction? Namekku-jin sounds more like “namekuji” (slug), which could be a reason.

The “sei” that’s a suffix for generations is a different Chinese character (世). Nisei means “second generation” in general and doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with being “from” anywhere.

Oh I get it now, not sei, but sei. Joking aside, thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it! Every Namekian is a Namek, but not every Namek is a Namekian.

Wait now I’m confused lol. So are non demon realm born namekins like piccolo and dende not demons?

[AliTheZombie13]

I just realized, maybe Gohan and Videl aren't affected because they're probably busy giving life to Pan right now and that would somehow break the rules of white magic?