Non-thread-worthy discussions

[AliTheZombie13]

Toei once legally distributed a Sailor Moon movie with a fandub they downloaded from YouTube, the movie had never been officially dubbed in Brazilian Portuguese before.

[The Monkey King]

I think that The movie "AKIRA" is the reason why so many casual DB-fans feel so comfortable addressing Toriyama on a first name basis

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I think that The movie "AKIRA" is the reason why so many casual DB-fans feel so comfortable addressing Toriyama on a first name basis

I don't think there's any relation between the two as Akira is a popular boy's name in Japan. Akira also means "wisdom" so it can be uttered as a mark of respect, much as we typically do for surnames of artists we admire.

[MasenkoHA]

I think that The movie "AKIRA" is the reason why so many casual DB-fans feel so comfortable addressing Toriyama on a first name basis

Doubt. That seems a pretty gigantic leap in logic

Addressing public figures on a first name basis like they're friends is just something people do these days. It's not unique to Toriyama. And tbh I rarely, if ever, see any fan call him just "Akira" I'm sure its happened but its almost always Toriyama, Akira Toriyama, Mr.Toriyama, or Toriyama-sama

[Alruneia]

I see people call Toriyama just "Akira" decently often. The thing with the Akira movie is most likely just a coincidence, like MasenkoHA says it's not unique to him. I think it's either that people just don't care about the rule (more like guideline) that you're not supposed to address public figures by given name only, or it's that people may have heard somewhere that in Japanese the family name comes first and so they've confused themselves into thinking that Akira is his family name and Toriyama is his given name. I'm leaning towards the former theory in most cases, but sometimes people do "try too hard" and trip themselves up, too.

[Grimlock]

Addressing someone by their first name is a common thing in some places (off the top of my head, Brazil being one of them).

Toriyama, Koyama & the Daizenshuu have stated at multiple times that the movies happen in separate dimensions from (...) each other with certain exceptions.

Mind to provide a source for that?

[VegettoEX]

Mind to provide a source for that?

People bug Koyama on Twitter all the time, and everyone gets back answers in different languages neither can actually read, so I wouldn't necessarily put too much stock in that. We don't really need to, regardless, because...

For Toriyama, we know the usual quote is from his Daizenshuu 6 interview, where he says:

I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them.

The key phrase Toriyama uses here is 別次元 (betsujigen), which means “another dimension” but also “on a whole different level”. There’s not necessarily a deeper meaning here about “timelines” and “continuities” — it’s a very simple way of saying “hey, this thing here is different from that over there"... but it also kinda DOES separate the continuities, because, well, of course it does.

Daizenshuu 6 also has a little timeline placement on the title page for each film, but lots of fans generally don't pay attention to the cool little explanatory text that accompanies them all (or even realize it's there...)! They go so far as to note these placements with sentences such as 平行世界的な出来事といえる (or “It can be said that these are parallel world events”). It'll say so-and-so is here, but so-and-so is supposed to be there, this doesn't fully fit, etc. etc. etc.

[Grimlock]

The crux of the matter is that AtlasFlame18 said that there are "multiple statements" about the movies taking place in different dimensions in relation to each other, as though the movies aren't in the same continuity, a sequel to each other. As far as I'm aware (and I am aware of everything you said...!), there is nothing that proves that. This is a fan approach that no official source supports. I know for a fact that Toriyama (as you yourself posted) and Daizenshuu don't say that. But I'm unaware that Koyama addresses this (if he did at all), I don't follow him over on Twitter so anything he says or could have said I would miss.

When Daizenshuu 6 states "It can be said that these are parallel world events", "say so-and-so is here, but so-and-so is supposed to be there" and etc, those are statements referring to the series, not to the movies themselves. The Goku who faces Garlic Junior in Movie 1 is the same Goku who faces Wheelo in Movie 2, who is the same Goku who faces Turles in Movie 3, who is the same Goku who faces Slug in Movie 4 and so on... Unless, of course, there is statement that says otherwise, which is what I am asking here.

[AtlasFlame18]

The crux of the matter is that AtlasFlame18 said that there are "multiple statements" about the movies taking place in different dimensions in relation to each other, as though the movies aren't in the same continuity, a sequel to each other. As far as I'm aware (and I am aware of everything you said...!), there is nothing that proves that. This is a fan approach that no official source supports. I know for a fact that Toriyama (as you yourself posted) and Daizenshuu don't say that. But I'm unaware that Koyama addresses this (if he did at all), I don't follow him over on Twitter so anything he says or could have said I would miss.

When Daizenshuu 6 states "It can be said that these are parallel world events", "say so-and-so is here, but so-and-so is supposed to be there" and etc, those are statements referring to the series, not to the movies themselves. The Goku who faces Garlic Junior in Movie 1 is the same Goku who faces Wheelo in Movie 2, who is the same Goku who faces Turles in Movie 3, who is the same Goku who faces Slug in Movie 4 and so on... Unless, of course, there is statement that says otherwise, which is what I am asking here.

I don't know to directly post images on here so I created an imgur gallery of two tweets from Koyama talking about how not all the movies are in the same world but actually separate parallel worlds.
https://imgur.com/a/wKZ4qlh

[FortuneSSJ]

Considering Daima underwhelming viewership, I really doubt when we have a remake of the oficial manga, they won't speed up trough the pre-DBZ stuff. DBZ is what sells and where the fun is for most people.

They will either start the remake with DBZ like DB Kai, or start with OG DB and speed through it. No chance in hell we will get a 1:1 remake of manga content before the Saiyan arc.

[JulieYBM]

Considering Daima underwhelming viewership, I really doubt when we have a remake of the oficial manga, they won't speed up trough the pre-DBZ stuff. DBZ is what sells and where the fun is for most people.

They will either start the remake with DBZ like DB Kai, or start with OG DB and speed through it. No chance in hell we will get a 1:1 remake of manga content before the Saiyan arc.

What source do you have that Daima is somehow underperforming?

[MasenkoHA]

Considering Daima underwhelming viewership, I really doubt when we have a remake of the oficial manga, they won't speed up trough the pre-DBZ stuff. DBZ is what sells and where the fun is for most people.

They will either start the remake with DBZ like DB Kai, or start with OG DB and speed through it. No chance in hell we will get a 1:1 remake of manga content before the Saiyan arc.

What source do you have that Daima is somehow underperforming?

I think they're going off the fact that its staying below a 2 percent tv viewership rating in Japan but that ignores

1. People don't really watch traditional tv anymore and haven't for years.

2. It's airing late at night at like 11:40 PM.

3. It's available for streaming and seems to be doing well globally

[JulieYBM]

Considering Daima underwhelming viewership, I really doubt when we have a remake of the oficial manga, they won't speed up trough the pre-DBZ stuff. DBZ is what sells and where the fun is for most people.

They will either start the remake with DBZ like DB Kai, or start with OG DB and speed through it. No chance in hell we will get a 1:1 remake of manga content before the Saiyan arc.

What source do you have that Daima is somehow underperforming?

I think they're going off the fact that its staying below a 2 percent tv viewership rating in Japan but that ignores

1. People don't really watch traditional tv anymore and haven't for years.

2. It's airing late at night at like 11:40 PM.

3. It's available for streaming and seems to be doing well globally

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking. TV ratings aren't the big a deal, especially since most commercials are going to just be for Dragon Ball products.

[MasenkoHA]

What source do you have that Daima is somehow underperforming?

I think they're going off the fact that its staying below a 2 percent tv viewership rating in Japan but that ignores

1. People don't really watch traditional tv anymore and haven't for years.

2. It's airing late at night at like 11:40 PM.

3. It's available for streaming and seems to be doing well globally

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking. TV ratings aren't the big a deal, especially since most commercials are going to just be for Dragon Ball products.

Right. Case in point, Bob's Burgers is still an incredibly popular show. But you wouldn't know it looking at the tv ratings where its been struggling to hit 1 million viewers an episode. But that doesn't matter because everyone is just watching it on Hulu

[JulieYBM]

I think they're going off the fact that its staying below a 2 percent tv viewership rating in Japan but that ignores

1. People don't really watch traditional tv anymore and haven't for years.

2. It's airing late at night at like 11:40 PM.

3. It's available for streaming and seems to be doing well globally

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking. TV ratings aren't the big a deal, especially since most commercials are going to just be for Dragon Ball products.

Right. Case in point, Bob's Burgers is still an incredibly popular show. But you wouldn't know it looking at the tv ratings where its been struggling to hit 1 million viewers an episode. But that doesn't matter because everyone is just watching it on Hulu

Lol, yeah. Those CW shows also went on for eternity because of their overseas returns. Ratings aren't whwt they used to be.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Considering Daima underwhelming viewership

Dragon Ball Daima has not been underperforming. TV ratings are not a good metric for how well the show is doing, for the reasons MasenkoHa stated. If we look at its streaming success so far we see a different story.

• In its first week on Netflix India Daima reached #1 in kid's shows and #4 overall
• It reached #2 in kid's shows during its second week on Netflix UK
  • Also worth noting the same week it reached #1 in 15 countries on HBO Max in Latin America
• Over the course of its first week on Netflix Daima also had 3.2 million viewers
• As Neo-Makaiōshin noted in its second week on Netflix Daima reached #2 worldwide
• The following week Daima reached number 8 on Netflix globally

I haven't seem any stats for the last few weeks, but 3 weeks in the top 10 of the most mainstream streaming service out there is not what I would call underwhelming.

Would a Super continuation have done better? Most likely yes, but Daima has still done pretty good all things considered.

[Grimlock]

I don't know to directly post images on here so I created an imgur gallery of two tweets from Koyama talking about how not all the movies are in the same world but actually separate parallel worlds.
https://imgur.com/a/wKZ4qlh

Thank you. Nice that we do have some insight from Takao Koyama on this. But of course, as one can expect, things aren't that simple:

1 - It's impossible for the Hatchiyack OVA to be separated from the movies dimension as the characters all acknowledge Turles, Slug, Coola and Broly (mentioned). So if the OVA is separated, how can the characters recognize them in the first place?

2 - Takao Koyama says it's his opinion. Now, we must reach a consensus here on whether we take opinions as facts or not. Personally speaking, I have no problems doing that, even if what Toriyama said about the movies "taking place in another dimension" isn't necessarily to be taken from an in-universe perspective (as VegettoEX insists on saying), I believe it brings no harm, quite the contrary actually, it contributes to the world-expanding of Dragon Ball (a lot, I might add). So as far as I'm concerned, there's indeed a dimension where the movies take place. That means I would and should consider what Koyama said as well, but there is another problem to deal with...

2.5 - ... Takao Koyama preferring for each of the movies to take place in different realities contradicts Dragon Ball Heroes. The game kinda confirms that the movies do happen in the same continuity as the Time Patrollers acknowledge them (including Dragon Ball GT).

[AtlasFlame18]

I don't know to directly post images on here so I created an imgur gallery of two tweets from Koyama talking about how not all the movies are in the same world but actually separate parallel worlds.
https://imgur.com/a/wKZ4qlh

Thank you. Nice that we do have some insight from Takao Koyama on this. But of course, as one can expect, things aren't that simple:

1 - It's impossible for the Hatchiyack OVA to be separated from the movies dimension as the characters all acknowledge Turles, Slug, Coola and Broly (mentioned). So if the OVA is separated, how can the characters recognize them in the first place?

2 - Takao Koyama says it's his opinion. Now, we must reach a consensus here on whether we take opinions as facts or not. Personally speaking, I have no problems doing that, even if what Toriyama said about the movies "taking place in another dimension" isn't necessarily to be taken from an in-universe perspective (as VegettoEX insists on saying), I believe it brings no harm, quite the contrary actually, it contributes to the world-expanding of Dragon Ball (a lot, I might add). So as far as I'm concerned, there's indeed a dimension where the movies take place. That means I would and should consider what Koyama said as well, but there is another problem to deal with...

2.5 - ... Takao Koyama preferring for each of the movies to take place in different realities contradicts Dragon Ball Heroes. The game kinda confirms that the movies do happen in the same continuity as the Time Patrollers acknowledge them (including Dragon Ball GT).

The movie characters from the OVA are just different versions of their movie counterparts. And we know the movies can't all be in the same contiguous timeline because the movie characters experience a variation of the main timeline up until their movies' events.

Tree of Might & Lord Slug for example has the Z-Fighters alive during a time where Goku knows both the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb but has not unlocked Super Saiyan nor has he defeated Frieza. Yet in Cooler’s Revenge Goku explicitly experienced the main events of Namek hence how he defeated Frieza as a Super Saiyan and experienced the events on Planet Namek. These two things are mutually exclusive from one another. You can't have a timeline where Goku is on Earth, with the alive Z-Fighters, while knowing the Kaio Ken & the Spirit Bomb but not knowing Super Saiyan. Nor can you have a timeline where those events happen but Goku for some reason still goes through the trek to Namek and fights Frieza and transforms into a Super Saiyan. They do not make sense on a contiguous timeline. They have to be separate.

Dragon Ball Heroes like any other video game has its own Continuity and makes continous note of the fact that they are constantly pulling versions of different characters into the story. Not necessarily the same ones over and over unless explicitly mentioned. Every movie character from their original continuity has appeared in some version of Dragon Ball Heroes but that doesn't mean they all came from the same continuity nor does a repeat appearance necessarily mean the same character. For example we have a version of Lord Slug that fights Super Saiyan Goku in early Dragon Ball Heroes on an unknown planet. But we have no indication whatsoever that that Lord Slug is the same one from the movie.

Koyama was the writer for the original 17 Dragon Ball movies and the Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans OVA. He was the architect of their plots. If he says that they don't mesh together on a singular timeline then they don't.

[Grimlock]

The movie characters from the OVA are just different versions of their movie counterparts.

Yeah, obviously, they aren't real, just "phantoms", but that's irrelevant. Goku and the others still recognize them.

Tree of Might & Lord Slug for example has the Z-Fighters alive during a time where Goku knows both the Kaioken and Spirit Bomb but has not unlocked Super Saiyan nor has he defeated Frieza. Yet in Cooler’s Revenge Goku explicitly experienced the main events of Namek hence how he defeated Frieza as a Super Saiyan and experienced the events on Planet Namek. These two things are mutually exclusive from one another. You can't have a timeline where Goku is on Earth, with the alive Z-Fighters, while knowing the Kaio Ken & the Spirit Bomb but not knowing Super Saiyan. Nor can you have a timeline where those events happen but Goku for some reason still goes through the trek to Namek and fights Frieza and transforms into a Super Saiyan. They do not make sense on a contiguous timeline. They have to be separate.

Admittedly, Movie 3 (and Movie 2) is problematic due to the characters being alive and there having absolutely no way to solve that issue, but it hardly means the other movies cannot occur in the same timeline. Movie 4, as you mentioned, doesn't contradict Movie 5. Speaking of which, I'll take the opportunity to ask you to tell me exactly how each of the movies contradict each other. As the last time I was in this discussion, I asked them to elaborate it, but curiously I didn't get anything. It'd be nice to know if it's true or if it's just another thing people love to claim based on nothing (if it's true, it would be fun to figure out if there's a way to solve any potential issue).

For example we have a version of Lord Slug that fights Super Saiyan Goku in early Dragon Ball Heroes on an unknown planet. But we have no indication whatsoever that that Lord Slug is the same one from the movie.

If you are talking about anything that happens before 2016's Super Dragon Ball Heroes, then it doesn't count. Heroes only started telling its stories with that update (with the God Mission series vaguely having something resembling a story, but not quite there yet).

Koyama was the writer for the original 17 Dragon Ball movies and the Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans OVA. He was the architect of their plots. If he says that they don't mesh together on a singular timeline then they don't.

Unless what it is said is presented as an opinion, then it can be ignored. People often ignore Toriyama's "alternate dimension", to the point of even saying that the movies are "what-if" events. We are not really obligated to accept opinions as the truth, regardless of who they are.

[MasenkoHA]

[

Koyama was the writer for the original 17 Dragon Ball movies and the Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans OVA. He was the architect of their plots. If he says that they don't mesh together on a singular timeline then they don't.

One just also has to simply watch the Z movies to realize they can't work in a singular timeline

Z movie 2-5 all take place after Namek but only movie 5 acknowledges Goku's ability to become Super Saiyan since it was the only movie in that era to be produced after that development.

Movie 12 and 13 are both after Boo but only Movie 13 lines up with Goku and Vegeta being brought back to life.

The movies were never meant to be anything more than "just enjoy this standalone 40 minute to hour long feature and don't think too hard about how it's going to get contradicted later on"