Dragon Ball Daima Strength Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

Good Boo is much stronger than SSJ2 Gohan lol. Boo doesn't have infinite stamina when he's fighting another Boo. Either Fat Boo's power can go beyond ~2x SSJ2 Gohan (Which makes sense because his dormant power is Super Boo) or Mr Boo is as strong as Fat Boo.

You're basing this on what?

Majin Boo himself had no dormant power, his evil was repressed which is why it was expelled. The new character, Super Boo, was created to be stronger, to be the upgrade.

There's no line saying Mr.Boo recovered the power Evil Boo took; the majority of it. Even Vegeta wants to finish him off because of the risk of him popping out another Boo, doesn't seem too concerned with Mr.Boo himself.

This is all in the manga.

[Hugo Boss]

It’s true that Skinny Boo represents the repressed evil of Fat Boo, but it doesn’t negate the possibility that Fat Boo’s full power stems from the same untapped potential seen in Super Boo. Evidence lies in his ability to perform feats like holding his own against Kid Boo, which indicates Innocent Boo retained significant strength and isn’t drastically weaker than Fat Boo’s usable power, if at all. Vegeta only felt confident in killing him, because Innocent Boo had used up all his energy. There is no guarantee Vegeta could take him at full strength.

[LightBing]

That's once again a supposition and the evidence isn't there.

Mr.Boo is nothing more than a punching bag to Kid Boo. He only outperforms Vegeta in durability, mostly because the latter can't come back after getting his head blown off.
Kid Boo literally held off Mr.Boo with only his legs and his arms crossed.
I re-read the the section to not talk out of my ass. That's not a fight, it's a beating.

It's a narrative choice how Majin Boo was unable to use it's "evil potential". Which is why Super Boo was created completed with a conflict. Even Piccolo says his body become more suited for battle, even his body composition held that potential back.

[Yuji]

Once Boo is revived, Gohan and Vegeta both admit that he's not something they couldn't handle at their peaks of SS2. But then Boo powers up further. I think Boo is probably 3x as strong as the Boo arc SS2s, not quite that 4x from SS3 yet.

[LightBing]

Toriyama literally told us Boo power, it's a bit more than 2 times SSJ2 Gohan.

All power ups he has still fall within this range. Gohan also thought he could defeat Boo if he got angry.

[Hugo Boss]

That's once again a supposition and the evidence isn't there.

Mr.Boo is nothing more than a punching bag to Kid Boo. He only outperforms Vegeta in durability, mostly because the latter can't come back after getting his head blown off.
Kid Boo literally held off Mr.Boo with only his legs and his arms crossed.
I re-read the the section to not talk out of my ass. That's not a fight, it's a beating.

It's a narrative choice how Majin Boo was unable to use it's "evil potential". Which is why Super Boo was created completed with a conflict. Even Piccolo says his body become more suited for battle, even his body composition held that potential back.

Innocent Boo struggled against Kid Boo, but calling him “nothing more than a punching bag” overlooks the fact that he endured far longer than SS2 Vegeta, who was quickly overwhelmed. His durability wasn’t solely about regeneration, it reflects significant power relative to Kid Boo.

Regarding “evil potential,” Piccolo’s statement about Super Boo’s body being more battle-suited supports the idea that Innocent Boo’s body composition limited his ability to fight effectively, not necessarily his raw power. His feats still suggest parity with Fat Boo, while Skinny Boo would be a step above, which justifies why uniting their respective strengths eclipses SS3 Goku.

[Yuji]

Toriyama literally told us Boo power, it's a bit more than 2 times SSJ2 Gohan.

All power ups he has still fall within this range. Gohan also thought he could defeat Boo if he got angry.

Toriyama also told us that Gohan was at half power when he defeated Cell and we know this can't be true, unless you believe Gohan got even stronger through the struggle.

[LightBing]

Innocent Boo struggled against Kid Boo, but calling him “nothing more than a punching bag” overlooks the fact that he endured far longer than SS2 Vegeta, who was quickly overwhelmed. His durability wasn’t solely about regeneration, it reflects significant power relative to Kid Boo.

Regarding “evil potential,” Piccolo’s statement about Super Boo’s body being more battle-suited supports the idea that Innocent Boo’s body composition limited his ability to fight effectively, not necessarily his raw power. His feats still suggest parity with Fat Boo, while Skinny Boo would be a step above, which justifies why uniting their respective strengths eclipses SS3 Goku.

Even if we follow your line, I don't see how such a performance from Boo even puts anywhere near Majin Boo.
Guess we disagree completely then.

Suggests? Boo never displayed such power. He didn't need it against Gohan and Vegeta. Didn't use it against Goku.
The reality is that the evil was suppressed, that power was only possible by creating a new character. It's clear as water, Toriyama was direct.

It's like saying Goku until the Freeza arc could have gotten 50 times stronger because he had the potential to become SSJ. He couldn't because whatever rules the narrative introduced limited it, likewise for Majin Boo.

Toriyama also told us that Gohan was at half power when he defeated Cell and we know this can't be true, unless you believe Gohan got even stronger through the struggle.

I put that moment in the same bag as Freeza and Goku magically healing in Namek. It's for the sake of narrative and spectacle.
That said, with deeper analysis maybe Super Perfect Cell isn't all that great. There's no rule that he got a SSJ2 like boost.

But in regards with the argument.
If Toriyama doesn't have an interior logic, why do you even bother discussing it?
This is a slippery sloop of picking what Toriyama did "right" and what is silly old forgetful Toriyama who pulls things out of his ass so let's disregard it.

[Hugo Boss]

Even if we follow your line, I don't see how such a performance from Boo even puts anywhere near Majin Boo.
Guess we disagree completely then.

Suggests? Boo never displayed such power. He didn't need it against Gohan and Vegeta. Didn't use it against Goku.
The reality is that the evil was suppressed, that power was only possible by creating a new character. It's clear as water, Toriyama was direct.

It's like saying Goku until the Freeza arc could have gotten 50 times stronger because he had the potential to become SSJ. He couldn't because whatever rules the narrative introduced limited it, likewise for Majin Boo.

Innocent Boo’s ability to keep Kid Boo occupied is evidence of significant relative power, even if he ultimately lost. He succeeded in buying enough time for Goku to create the Spirit Bomb, something Vegeta couldn’t manage. His struggle wasn’t just durability but resilience.

Regarding your comparison to Goku and Super Saiyan, the suppressed evil in Boo isn’t analogous to untapped potential. I’m just saying Innocent Boo retained much of Fat Boo’s original strength, because his “evil” power wasn’t accessible in that form anyway. We’re not even disagreeing on that premise. It just wouldn’t make sense that Innocent Boo would be that much weaker than Fat Boo and still power-up Skinny Boo to a point SS3 Goku couldn’t keep up.

[LightBing]

Innocent Boo’s ability to keep Kid Boo occupied is evidence of significant relative power, even if he ultimately lost. He succeeded in buying enough time for Goku to create the Spirit Bomb, something Vegeta couldn’t manage. His struggle wasn’t just durability but resilience.

Regarding your comparison to Goku and Super Saiyan, the suppressed evil in Boo isn’t analogous to untapped potential. I’m just saying Innocent Boo retained much of Fat Boo’s original strength, because his “evil” power wasn’t accessible in that form anyway. We’re not even disagreeing on that premise. It just wouldn’t make sense that Innocent Boo would be that much weaker than Fat Boo and still power-up Skinny Boo to a point SS3 Goku couldn’t keep up.

Vegeta wasn't buying time for the Genki Dama, at least initially. He was buying time for Goku to gather energy, at least a minute, which he did.
Later, in base, he does help when the Genki Dama is charging. He has probably as many panels resisting Boo in base as he has in SSJ2.
Hell even Mr.Satan survives two hits from Boo.

All of them just get pounced by Boo, who's far superior to them all and is just a sadistic monster. If we're going by resilience then Vegeta resisted Boo in base, where does that put him based on your logic?

Super Boo is Pure Boo + Majin Boo. Absorption appears to solely addition. A SSJ3 fighter plus a SSJ2 fighter is more than enough to handle SSJ3 Goku. I see no contradiction here.

[ZombieVito]

SS2 Vegeta couldn't even react to Kid Boo's attacks.

Mr. Boo actually managed to land hits on him.

[Thani]

I always assumed that Mr. Buu was more or less on the very high end of SS2, since he managed to hold off Pure Buu for a while. Definitely more powerful than all of the SS2 we saw, but still nowhere as strong as the Fat Buu that fought somewhat evenly with SS3 Goku.

Liike 2x stronger than SS2 Goku/Vegeta, or maybe even 1.5x stronger.

[Hugo Boss]

Innocent Boo’s ability to keep Kid Boo occupied is evidence of significant relative power, even if he ultimately lost. He succeeded in buying enough time for Goku to create the Spirit Bomb, something Vegeta couldn’t manage. His struggle wasn’t just durability but resilience.

Regarding your comparison to Goku and Super Saiyan, the suppressed evil in Boo isn’t analogous to untapped potential. I’m just saying Innocent Boo retained much of Fat Boo’s original strength, because his “evil” power wasn’t accessible in that form anyway. We’re not even disagreeing on that premise. It just wouldn’t make sense that Innocent Boo would be that much weaker than Fat Boo and still power-up Skinny Boo to a point SS3 Goku couldn’t keep up.

Vegeta wasn't buying time for the Genki Dama, at least initially. He was buying time for Goku to gather energy, at least a minute, which he did.
Later, in base, he does help when the Genki Dama is charging. He has probably as many panels resisting Boo in base as he has in SSJ2.
Hell even Mr.Satan survives two hits from Boo.

All of them just get pounced by Boo, who's far superior to them all and is just a sadistic monster. If we're going by resilience then Vegeta resisted Boo in base, where does that put him based on your logic?

Super Boo is Pure Boo + Majin Boo. Absorption appears to solely addition. A SSJ3 fighter plus a SSJ2 fighter is more than enough to handle SSJ3 Goku. I see no contradiction here.

Vegeta’s initial fight lasted only a chapter, while Innocent Boo held him off for several chapters, allowing time for the resurrection of Earth and its inhabitants and the Spirit Bomb’s preparation (tasks likely spanning more than 10 minutes). Innocent Boo also occasionally fought back, unlike Vegeta, whose contributions were more about enduring blows.

Additionally, it’s important to clarify that Super Boo is Skinny Boo fused with Innocent Boo. Kid Boo is not part of this equation, unless you believe Skinny Boo is as strong as Kid Boo.

[ZombieVito]

I always assumed that Mr. Buu was more or less on the very high end of SS2, since he managed to hold off Pure Buu for a while. Definitely more powerful than all of the SS2 we saw, but still nowhere as strong as the Fat Buu that fought somewhat evenly with SS3 Goku.

Liike 2x stronger than SS2 Goku/Vegeta, or maybe even 1.5x stronger.

Fat Boo fought a suppressed SS3 Goku though.

[LightBing]

If we're being specific then Vegeta did more damage than Boo. He actually destroyed his body to pieces.
Mr.Boo destroyed half his body, an headbutt and threw him with the assist of Mr.Satan.

I really think people aren't seeing the forest for the trees. This panel illustrates the premise of the whole fight(slaughter).
https://imgur.com/a/ejvJG5v

Kid Boo is toying with Mr.Boo like he did with SSJ2 Vegeta, like he does with Mr.Satan, likewise for Base Vegeta.

Anyway, if people are consistent then y'all actually think Mr.Satan resilience is an actual feat of strength instead of a narrative choice.
No point in discussing further if people think Mr.Satan is SSJ2 level.

[Hugo Boss]

You’re conflating separate points and addressing arguments I never made. Let me clarify:

1. My comparison wasn’t about damage output, but the role and contribution of Innocent Boo versus Vegeta in stalling Kid Boo. While Vegeta destroyed Kid Boo’s body in moments of the fight, Innocent Boo’s role was about prolonging the battle significantly, which allowed critical tasks like Earthlings’ resurrection and the Spirit Bomb’s preparation to take place. That time-buying aspect was pivotal.

2. Your comparison of Innocent Boo’s durability to Mr. Satan’s is a strawman. No one here suggested Mr. Satan’s resilience is a ‘feat of strength’. The context of Mr. Satan’s role in the narrative is completely different (comic relief and humanizing moments versus Innocent Boo directly engaging Kid Boo in combat). Innocent Boo’s durability and occasional counterattacks show he could actually resist Kid Boo, even if briefly. That’s a far cry from Mr. Satan simply getting thrown around for comedic effect.

3. As for Kid Boo ‘toying’ with opponents, yes, Kid Boo toys with most of his enemies, but that doesn’t negate the fact that Innocent Boo contributed by holding him off for an extended period. It’s a narrative choice to show that even Innocent Boo, far weaker than Kid Boo, was willing to step up and give his all, which aligns with the broader theme of the arc: collective effort.

Lastly, your argument that Vegeta ‘did more’ than Innocent Boo feels reductive. If we’re measuring impact solely by isolated moments of damage, sure, Vegeta destroyed Kid Boo’s body. But Innocent Boo’s extended resistance was equally, if not more, critical to the final plan’s success. Both played different roles, and dismissing Innocent Boo’s contributions doesn’t align with the narrative’s portrayal of their efforts.

[Koitsukai]

What is the debate here?
Vegeta would've died had Mr. Satan not being there, couldn't even defend himself, all of the "damage" he did was due to having the initiative, because he hit first, after Buu went ahead, he wasn't even able to block. It was like breaking a window on a train before the train ran you over.

Now, Mr. Buu didn't do much better than SS2 Vegeta, but he did better. Buu was able to at least fight back a bit in the beginning.

How long did SS2 Vegeta last? moments, one rampage and he was done for.
Buu jumped in while Goku was still trying to power up the SS3 form, fought Kid Buu while they came up with the final plan, and was still resisting by the time 2/3 wishes were granted, and the genki dama was already created. He was defeated by the time they needed the non-friends' ki.
The difference is clear.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Fat Boo and Super Boo are made of the same stuff, that’s a fact. Super is Fat’s dormant power, and whenever Fat was angry he’d tap into it. Not to mention Super showing how deep Dai Kaioshin’s own power goes and how strong it made Boo. You can say he didn’t use any of that power vs Kid Boo, but the potential was there.

Anyone remember that anseer from Toriyama to a fan, about Boo having bottomless potential, and that even Boo himself doesn’t know it?

[LightBing]

The story didn't provide a change/update to Grey Boo taking the majority of the power of Majin Boo. Getting hammered by Kid Boo isn't proof.
I was just being petty in regards to the damage. People are talking about resilience but Base Vegeta lasted about as long as when he was in SSJ2.

I agree that Mr.Boo fared better, that's a fact. However, it wasn't by much and it was basically due too durability. Helps being able to grow a head after it's obliterated.
Nothing in that fight puts Mr.Boo at a level close to Majin Boo. Therefore the story maintained the status. Which was what the discussion was about and not dissecting these fights.

Agree to disagree at the end.

[Almighty Majin]

Doing another ranking before shit goes down in the next few episodes:

Spoiler:

SSJ3 Goku | SSJ3 Vegeta | Kid Buu
Majin Duu
Majin Buu | Red Tamagami #1 | Purple Tamagami #2
Good Buu | Base Tamagami #1
SSJ2 Goku | SSJ2 Vegeta | Base Tamagami #2
Super Perfect Cell | Majin Dabura | Orange Tamagami #3
Perfect Cell | Dabura
SSJ Goku | SSJ Vegeta | Base Tamagami #3
Neva
Majin Kuu | Gomah
Piccolo | Glorio
Marba
Nahare | Degesu | Dr. Arinsu
Babidi | Bibidi
Namek Freeza
Base Goku | Base Vegeta
Galactic King | King Kadan
Ginyu Force | Gendarmerie Force
King Kadan Army General | Freeza Elites (Zarbon/Dodoria/Cui)
Jaco | Hybis
Freeza Soldiers | Gendarmerie Soldiers
King Kadan's Soldiers
Demon Realm Thugs
Panzy

Some notes:

Spoiler:

The Demon Realm Thugs are on a spectrum of power, but I don't think any of them surpass og DB levels of power. At most they're King Piccolo level, maybe above that, but definitely below the average Freeza Soldier.

King Kadan's Soldiers have actual military training and when working together managed to push Goku to briefly use SSJ. However, their training is likely not as advanced as the Gendarmerie Soldiers nor do they have the same level of technology.

Judging by RoF, Jaco is superior to the average Freeza goon. Hybis has no real on-screen feats, but based on how well-traveled he is within the Demon Realm (and outside of it potentially), Kadan's trust in him, and the weird zombie game joke scene, I will assume that he is actually decently strong and he is just lazy which fits for his character. Do not take Hybis' ranking too seriously, I just wanted to place him there for fun.

The General of Kadan's Army (Trumpet Lady) does not fight unfortunately because I like her design, but she has to be Kadan's strongest soldier. Thus, I am placing her on par with Freeza's (regular) Elite soldiers. She might be weaker, but I am being generous here.

The Gendarmerie Force are the Demon Realm's version of the Ginyu Force so I am placing them as equals for now.

Galactic King = King Kadan. Why is Galactic King so strong? Well he is stated to be the strongest in the Galactic Patrol (pre-Merus). On top of that, he must be at least above the Ginyu Force for Freeza to not want to waste resources fighting the Galactic Patrol. The Heeters for example, were stated by Toyotaro to be above the Ginyu Force, but below Freeza in power. I think placing the Galactic King on that level is pretty reasonable. That being said, I am placing Kadan on the same level.

Babidi and Bibidi are physically weaker than Freeza and King Cold, but I think their magical prowess places them relative or perhaps even above them which would maintain the balance of powers within U7. Marba has greater magic than them and Arinsu so I am placing her above the wizards and the Glinds.

Piccolo and Glorio seem relative to me. As for Piccolo being above Nahare, I think this was either always the case or Piccolo surpassed him within a year.

Majin Kuu should at least be stronger than the Glinds based on Arinsu's intentions. The previous Majin was weaker than her so Kuu is likely stronger than her as a result. He still failed to beat Tamagami #1, he might be weaker than any Tamagami. I still think that he is formidable and should be above Piccolo and Glorio, perhaps on par with Gomah who is also stronger than the Glinds and Glorio.

Neva's magic is insanely powerful and he might pull some more crazy feats that could potentially place him much higher.

Majin Dabura = SPC. I know this is a point of contention, but I will not budge on this opinion. Gohan showed off SSJ2 against Kibito, it makes no sense that he would not use it against Dabura, I do not care how it was drawn. Dabura being compared to Cell is narratively telling us that he is as strong as the previous villain so that Toriyama could show how strong Buu was on his first appearance. He has magic so he should be slightly above SPC. Orange Tamagami #3 was able to hold back and deflect a Kamahameha from SSJ2 Goku, but still lost in the end so he is on that level although he is still stronger than SPC and Dabura.

When Neva boosted Tamagami #2 I believe he became on par with Tamagami #1's full power. Based on 2's performance against SSJ3 Vegeta, I think he is on Fat Buu's level, maybe a little below.

Majin Duu is above the Tamagamis, but not by a lot so he is slightly stronger that Fat Buu, but would easily lose to Kid Buu.

Hypothetical Mega/Giga Rankings (Bonus):

Spoiler:

I am going to be extremely generous here because I just loved the concept of the Mega and Giga planets.

The Strongest Gigath | Suppressed Beerus (BoG)
Average Gigath Adult | Super Vegetto
Gigath Child | Buuhan
The Strongest Megath | Buutenks
Average Megath Adult | Super Buu
Megath Child | Kid Buu
Kraken | Majin Duu

Honestly they might be even stronger, but we do not have enough information.