Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 19 - Official Discussion Thread

[BernardoCairo]

ARE THE FUSION BUGS GOING TO PLAY A PART IN THIS OR NOT???

It would be funny if they didn't. It's the one element of the show they've been teasing since the start.

[Xeogran]

But honestly, GT's writing isn't anything special, to say the least.

It absolutely is.
GT not giving Pan 6 new forms shows that it was still a story oriented season, and not selling toys/cards/DLC oriented. I for one am happy she didn't go the Goten/Trunks route and start catching up on Super Saiyans for no reason.

[Cybersai]

Why on earth were Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo talking about being low on stamina when Dende was STANDING RIGHT THERE!?

This is like a weird GT-era type of plot error. Or even Neva could have recharged them for that matter.

[Mr Baggins]

Jesus. I thought the previous episode was the best, but I think this one might even surpass that. We're on a roll!

These interactions continue to be top fucking tier all around. Vegeta returned to the group so fast after Bulma blackmailed him with showering together that I barely noticed him flying back, which... holy shit, Daima has had me consistently laughing a lot, but that sent my sides to another universe. And Gomah's weakness being that he needs to be bopped on the head three times is classic Toriyama. And Kuu is such a puppy. And Arinsu having a soft spot for Glorio was cute. And pretty much all the stuff with Glorio himself was super wholesome and heartwarming; Goku getting his name right this time was excellent timing.

Glorio is everything I wish Granolah was in the Granolah arc. Very similar personalities, but unlike Granolah, Glorio's development as a character actually feels complete and fleshed out enough to where you can see all of his gradual changes firsthand, with nothing unaccounted for or offscreened. Glorio has everything come to a head in his climax, whereas Granolah is reduced to a glorified action figure by the second half of whatever his plot was doing. That is the difference between Toriyama writing a character arc and Toyotaro writing one virtually unaided.

Then there's everything with the wish itself, and it confirms what I've been saying about the characters being somewhat weakened as kids regardless of their current form. Between Gomah growing more monstrous and the Saiyans regaining their real power, this is giving off strong Kajika vibes. I don't envy Toriyama et al. having to strike a delicate balance between the more relaxed tone of his non-DB stuff and the over-the-top style of Dragon Ball, but I think he mostly pulled it off, and he was absolutely right to save the latter for Daima's final few episodes.

Goku's transformation sequence at the end was incredible. I got a real kick out of him naming the forms again, and while I was worried Daima's Super Saiyan 4 wouldn't look as good with the adult proportions, it looks just as great here. Liked Hybis's comment that the transformed Saiyans kinda look like demons.

Love it. I love Daima.

Conclusion is next week. As much as I'd like to once again shout about Daima not missing from the rooftops this close to the finale, the series did unfortunately have a couple of misses along the way in its second half. Still a great little show, and I look forward to thoroughly summarizing my thoughts next thread. Not sure how long that'll take because I want to fully binge and take in everything holistically first, but I'll get there.

Yeesh, Dragon Ball is going to be so shit without Toriyama. ;_;

[JulieYBM]

Assuming my katakana isn't dogshit, I think the next episode is titled Zenkai. That's an interesting choice of words, considering it's use in the franchise. I'm hoping that Super Saiyan 4 will just be called Super Saiyan 4, but if it's Super Saiyan Zenkai or something...that'll be a name, alright.

Anyone else think that the Super Saiyan 4 reveal would've had much more impact if it was just saved for this episode? I mean.. did we really need the chibi version shown to us first?

Because you can now by TWO SSJ4 Daima Goku figures instead of just one, which just strengthens the idea of the transformations being marketing decisions, and not Toriyama decisions.

That's how commercial art works, so yeah. This isn't surprising.

[fadeddreams5]

I have a question, because I totally didn't notice it:
ARE THE FUSION BUGS GOING TO PLAY A PART IN THIS OR NOT???

Or were they just yet another "Look at this cool thing the Demon Realm has" that's been dumped on us and doesn't actually matter to the story?

I have a feeling they are going to be used as a gag to rejoin Shin and Kibito. But who knows. With one episode presumably left, I can't see them serving a major purpose, unless we were wrong and there are more episodes to go.

[AliTheZombie13]

Assuming my katakana isn't dogshit, I think the next episode is titled Zenkai. That's an interesting choice of words, considering it's use in the franchise.

"Zenkai" simply means "full-throttle", so "maximum" is kiiiiind of accurate? Eh.
It was a fandom term anyway, don't think it was ever used officially to explain the Saiyans power-up ability after getting their asses kicked.

[BernardoCairo]

I'm getting Tenshinhan Mafuba flashbacks...

In this case, Tenshinhan at least tried to defeat Piccolo Daimaoh. He just wasn't suited for the job. Not using the bugs would be even weirder than that.

It absolutely is.
GT not giving Pan 6 new forms shows that it was still a story oriented season, and not selling toys/cards/DLC oriented. I for one am happy she didn't go the Goten/Trunks route and start catching up on Super Saiyans for no reason.

It's still a very weak and disjointed story, though. The kind of narrative where things just happen for the sake of it, and then it quickly moves on to the next big thing.

[Yuji]

Glorio is everything I wish Granolah was in the Granolah arc. Very similar personalities, but unlike Granolah, Glorio's development as a character actually feels complete and fleshed out enough to where you can see all of his gradual changes firsthand, with nothing unaccounted for or offscreened. Glorio has everything come to a head in his climax, whereas Granolah is reduced to a glorified action figure by the second half of whatever his plot was doing. That is the difference between Toriyama writing a character arc and Toyotaro writing one virtually unaided.

I must be living in opposite world. Granolah had a clearly defined backstory, plays a role in Vegeta's own character arc and both aid each-other in progressing as people, he is an integral key player throughout the arc, its catalyst and the one who defeats the major villain. Glorio may have helped kick-start the adventure but he has done much of nothing since fighting Goku, Shin's suspicions lead nowhere, we don't see him bonding with anyone besides saving Panzy once or twice, and he's done much of nothing for the past 15 episodes to the point that hilariously last episode one of his flashbacks hinging on his heel turn was of Goku's Kamehameha, not any actual, interpersonal moment.

[BernardoCairo]

Both Granolah and Gas were similar letdowns for me personally.

[Cybersai]

Dende didn't say one word in this episode either, lol.

[Xeogran]

It's still a very weak and disjointed story, though. The kind of narrative where things just happen for the sake of it, and then it quickly moves on to the next big thing.

I don't think so? Black Star arc linked directly to Baby arc as he was created in space, then Baby's defeat led directly to Super 17 arc because it's Dr. Myuu who makes him in the first place. Then that arc already hints at Shadow Dragons with the Dragon Balls breaking. I wouldn't call it disjointed.

Now Frieza and Android arcs were disjointed, because the only common element was Mecha Frieza who was quickly disposed of. And it had nothing to do with the creation of Androids.

[SHINOBI-03]

Vegeta's part: Yay.
Goku's part: Yay.
Glorio's part: Yay.
Arinsu's part: Yay.
Gomah's part: Not yay. His fighting is still lame.

[Mr Baggins]

Granolah had a clearly defined backstory

Having some detailed backstory means nothing if it isn't followed up on. Granolah's supposed heel turn at the end of his arc is completely offscreened and unearned, and the writing does absolute fuck all with him as a character after Gas shows up.

Glorio, in contrast, has more subtle bonding moments throughout the show but they're absolutely there, and continue long after he fights Goku. And this is standard Toriyama writing because he's never in-your-face or melodramatic with his character arcs. Everything here made perfect sense if you've been paying attention.

I'll take a million Glorios over a single Granolah any day of the week.

[dbs fanboy]

Quite an enjoyable episode, adult designs look great and the animation continues being good.
I don't understand all the weight put on Glorio, he never acted antagonistic towards the group and used the Dragon Balls to help them so i didn't care about that.

Glad Arinso finally puts respect on my boii Kuu.

That joke with Vegeta and Bulma was hilarious, Vegeta also went down soooo fast.

Why does Gomah let Goku go through the transformation explanation he already saw all of them, nevertheless i do find it funny how Goku adds the extra dramatic screaming to stall more time.

I guess next week will be the last episode?

He didn't call it Super Saiyan 4 at the end! I think this form is going to be called Super Saiyan Maximum, based on the next episode title. lol.

Also, this series cannot be canon to Super. It's its own continuity unless Neva erases everyone's memories or they reveal this new form cannot be used outside demon realm. Also, Shin needs to refuse with Kibito.

Quoting tfs Broly
"My power is.......MAXIMUMUM!!!"

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball Movie #9 reference?

God, I screamed so much at this shot. I don't know if it was Storyboard Artist & Episode Director Karasawa Kazuya's idea or what, but having Gokuu visibly toss off his top like this? Mama mia! This is our second look at Super Saiyan 3 Gokuu with a shirt on, right after One Piece Episode #590 back in 2013, when Shida Naotoshi animated him using that form.

Speaking of Shida, I believe I spotted him in the next episode preview, so I'm curious if he'll be providing a long scene or not. Shida hasn't appeared since Episode #8 and while he's been busy on other series, with One Piece not currently broadcasting, I am curious if he's had more time to do a huge scene for Dragon Ball Daima Episode #20?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

There's a reason people like SS4. It's a transformation that calls back to the Saiyan origins of the protagonist in an arc based around the sins of the Saiyans. It's a transformation achieved by recovering a piece of his anatomy he had lost, and fusing two forms together - it makes both sense why this form was never achieved before, and why it can be achieved now. It's also achieved after Goku recovers his reason from the Oozaru feral mind out of love for his granddaughter, in a nice parallel to him killing his own grandpa accidentally in the same mindless state as a child. It is a powerful form because of all the thematic weight and narrative significance the form has.

I could describe Ssj4 better if I tried. Truly amazing words my friend. How some still don't get why GT's ssj4 is better than Daima's is something I'll never understand.

[Vice]

Oh, please let them give Piccolo the finishing blow and not fumble the bag. So far, Goku has received Super Saiyan 4 and the majority of the screen time, Vegeta has gotten Super Saiyan 3 and the majority of the fights and Piccolo has gotten to find out his people were slaves in the Demon Realm and to get to be around as the things happen. This is the least they could do for someone who has gotten absolutely nothing in this series

[SaiyanCosmos]

I loved this episode, amazing shading towards the end when Goku was transforming. I love that Arinsu is finally recognising Kuu's value, not just his intellect but his magic seems to be very powerful too. I wonder what'll happen with Kuu and Duu after all this, will they go their own way or still work for Arinsu?

Bulma threatening to stop bathing with Vegeta...she has a powerful effect on him.

I don't think the fusion bugs will play a part, which is disappointing.

[BernardoCairo]

I don't think so? Black Star arc linked directly to Baby arc as he was created in space, then Baby's defeat led directly to Super 17 arc because it's Dr. Myuu who makes him in the first place. Then that arc already hints at Shadow Dragons with the Dragon Balls breaking. I wouldn't call it disjointed.

It’s disjointed in themes and tone, that’s what I meant. The fact that we even have a Super Android 17 "arc" proves my point. He shows up for no reason, is defeated in the lamest fight ever, and then we move on. I don’t see it as any better than, let's say, Fukkatsu no F in that regard.
But I understand you initial point.

Oh, please let them give Piccolo the finishing blow and not fumble the bag.

By the way, aura farming in this episode. Damn...