Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 19 - Official Discussion Thread

[BernardoCairo]

I'm going to be honest with you guys: in terms of visuals, I'm really starting to dig this new Super Saiyajin 4 design. The red eyes are so intense, and I love the cohesion and tone of the red throughout the whole design. Even the big hands work for me (if you're going for a primal form, might as well go all the way).
Seeing this form on adult Goku really changed my mind about it. I'm starting to like it more than the old design in many ways.

[Noah]

In my opinion, there are 3 main continuities:

• Continuity 1: The original manga (+ optionally including the Super manga)

• Continuity 2: The original anime run: DB, Z, GT

• Continuity 3: The modern anime run: Kai, Super, Daima

** Note that Toriyama has called Super a "casual continuation" while GT a "grand side-story" so that's where the gray area comes in.

I agree with these, I tend to follow the first (without Super manga) and the second one. The third is coherent if we consider that Super often uses Kai scenes as flashbacks and some some soundtracks from there

[Basaku]

As for why SSJ4 doesn't show up later in Super... I mean, Vegeta learned Instant Trasmission and decided not to master it because is a technique heavily associated with Goku.
I can see them coming up with some bullshit reason for not using SSJ4 ever again.
Just like I can see them coming up with some bullshit reason for making it necessary again in a future Super arc.

Yes but whatever the BS reason is, it really needs to be stated at least within the next ep.

This entire "second half" of the Super era is already a disjointed mess bumping back and forth while the companies involved bicker with each other. Say what u want about the first Super anime and its manga adaptations but at least there was some semblance of franchise cohesion and the narrative moving forward in a unified direction, with the same stories covered similary by both one after another (minus skipping of F movie in the manga early on). Things were naturally progressing and easily utilizing new additions from the preceeding arcs

But since the anime ended and Shueisha blocked 2uper anime, we got 2 random Super movies from Toei (only 1 turned into a manga), 2 Super manga arcs from Shueisha not animated, then in the meantine Toei was cooking up another even earlier midquel with Daima that also decided to bring back SSJ4 and likely won't be turned into a manga, as Shueisha was busy doing nothing in the past months or making a prequel to a prequel to SuperHero. All while each of these 'products' bring in even more new lore stuff awkwardly insterted into midquels, movies, mid-midquels etc.

Things really have to start getting explained directly because it IS becoming a mess continuity wise and most fans care about canon/continuity, it's literally the reason why Broly and SSJ4 happened, it's not just mindless consuming of the new flashy forms for most people so if they pull a "no explanation whatsoever" people will rightfully complain. Things can't be happening "just cause" with no effs given, that was the role of DB Heroes anime lol, not the main storytelling 'pillar' that claims to care about the lore, worldbuilding, characters and stories.

[sunsetshimmer]

I'm starting to like it more than the old design in many ways.

I'm not, but it certainly looks better on adult body, that's for sure. Although kid version felt more unique. Less like a copy/recolor and more like a tribute/inspiration. Good that he kept those huge fists and hopefully will keep more wild fighting style. Cause these elements save it from being just "making SSJ4 canon" or whatever people would call it and let it be actually a bit different take on the same concept.

Most fans who wanted SSJ4 to return for years would simply mean copying SSJ4 straight from GT and putting it to Super without any changes. I respect someone out there, Toriyama or not, trying to take slightly different approach for change.

A lot of people asked to make GT things like SSJ4, Baby, Shadow Dragons etc. "canon" in Super. I personally consider it pointless to tell story that was already told. So yeah, if we go for SSJ4 being introduced once again, i'm glad it's at least not the same. Better or worse - doesn't matter.

(Although it will be funny to see "SSJ4 Goku (GT)" and "SSJ4 Goku (Daima)" in games, not to mention Daima kid Goku SSJ4 and potentially Goku Xeno )

[IntangibleFancy]

We got all the 20 red episode-title characters right? Do you guys think it had some actual meaning to them? I'm starting to think it really is a part of a gag or some word play thing, but I'm hoping it's a spell and Daima ends with a cliffhanger of someone chanting them into Anrinsu's spell book

[pepd]

haha Nice episode. Cool and fun.

Still, it bothers me the lack of some natural expected reactions to some stuff and it takes me out of the experience, some little stuff like Panzy or the others say nothig about their adult forms, but specially it gets on my nerves that no one acknowledged and asked simply what the fuck is with this new form of Goku. Guess I´ll get over it when it´s over since the expectation will be no more, so whatever.

I like the idea of Beerus feeling his ki (or fusion´s SS4) and having the SSG dream.

Hope they do explain at least why they don´t use SS4 in future events, specially now that Goku used it by himself without Neva´s help.

[Saiya6Cit]

by BernardoCairo » Fri Feb 21, 2025 11:34 am

I really liked this episode. Seeing them as adults was a breath of fresh air. Vegeta's fight was cool,

Exactly! Chibi Vegeta was awful, he looked bad. I could not take a single more episode of him looking and talking the way he was doing it Bulma was cute as always though. As a hardcore Vegeta fan I am very satisfied with this last episode, with the transformations, the fights, everything.
Vegebul in 2025 is the best kind of Vegebul, specially when it is official. Now the famous Bulma's statement will be pure fuel for the fanfiction AO3 Vegebul fangirls hahahaha, because now, it is up to our imagination to determine what specifically happens during these "bath times" hahahaha Oh Vegeta is wise, he knows the old saying: "Happy Wife, Happy Life". Oh dear, it is like, no one is really surprised he would act that way. To the guy who called Vegeta a perv on a post by the first 5 pages, that is not being a perv, he is with his woman, that's what mommies and daddies do, alright?

GlorioxPanzy scene was very touchy and Arinsu´s scenes were phenomenal. I think Vegeta will go SSJ 4 (or however I should be calling it) and then fuse with Goku. But it could be just me...

If Daima is related to Super or not, it has not been revealed. Personally, I prefer that it is not. It should be it's own Universe like in DB Xeno.

The marketing does not upset me, because unlike Super, this series has designs I actually like and it is of a better quality in general. Who ever does not suport Daima at this point, must be a person full of some sort of resentment.

I am excited for next episode.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

As iconic as GT's Ssj4 is, one thing it doesn't have is memorable fights. Out of all the fights in was used in during GT's run, not a single one of them was memorable, ranging from mediocre to outright bad. Some of us may not like Kid Goku Ssj4, but no one can deny how well choreographed his fight was. Considering Shida is animating the fight (or parts of it) next week, chances are it's going to be even better.

Most fans who wanted SSJ4 to return for years would simply mean copying SSJ4 straight from GT and putting it to Super without any changes.

I never understood why they went with pink in GT's design, so this is an improvement in that regard. As for how the form was reached, nothing will beat GT's introduction of it.

I'm going to be honest with you guys: in terms of visuals, I'm really starting to dig this new Super Saiyajin 4 design. The red eyes are so intense, and I love the cohesion and tone of the red throughout the whole design.

I really dislike Ssj4 on mini Goku, but here it looks amazing. I'm not ready to say it looks better than the original, but crimson red is by far my favorite color, and it looks great in the few seconds we saw of it.

I do hope we get SSJ4 Vegeta next week but I mean, there's like 20-30 minutes for the episode right?

It's going to be a Goku ep isn't it? At least we got Adult SSJ3 Vegeta

I honestly don't see that happening, nor do I really need it to. Ssj4 was always Goku's thing in GT; Vegeta's was just tacked on at the end alongside Gogeta. Personally, I'm way more happy about him getting Ssj3.

Anyone can come up with any number of reasons for how to resolve the plotholes.

But like. Yeah, it's possible that Toriyama was thinking "You know? I actually don't like these stories I've been writing for the past 10 years, I want to start a whole new continuity!"

It's not out of the realm of possibility that Toriyama's mind set was simply "This is an isolated 20 minute project, I'll do what I want away from the main Super series". It can be viewed as the old Z movies, just on a larger scale.

We got all the 20 red episode-title characters right? Do you guys think it had some actual meaning to them?

I think it might end up being a tribute to Toriyama of some kind.

[Artorias]

Once again, absolutely stunning visuals backed up by a completely vapid and empty script and story. Gomah is absolutely by FAR the worst villain in any non-movie Dragon Ball product. Just absolutely nothing going on with him at all. It also really does hurt these cool fight scenes that he takes seemingly literally zero damage from all of this. It just doesn’t feel good to watch. You can make your villain feel intimidating while still showing them take damage. Perfect Cell took enough damage from Goku before fighting Gohan to the point where he needed a Senzu bean. It didn’t magically make him any less foreboding in the fight.

The ending sequence is an all-timer transformation sequence though. It almost made me forget everything else. Almost.

Also with all that negativity said, it is kinda insane how much more I became invested in this automatically with them being adults. Like it’s just subconscious, I find myself just naturally caring more when they’re adults. Not saying I’m against OG Dragon Ball, obviously. But in mind, we’re past that. And I definitely would’ve enjoyed this show a bit more both narratively and visually if they just remained as adults the entire time.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Once again, absolutely stunning visuals backed up by a completely vapid and empty script and story.

The issue I have with the story is that they rush through the important plot points, like Glorio's arc, but for some reason spend an eternity on shit like walking, the ship breaking down, fighting goons, etc... This would be a very good story if the focus was actually on the main plot points, rather than the filler material that was only there to fill the 20 minute run time.

[Artorias]

Once again, absolutely stunning visuals backed up by a completely vapid and empty script and story.

The issue I have with the story is that they rush through the important plot points, like Glorio's arc, but for some reason spend an eternity on shit like walking, the ship breaking down, fighting goons, etc... This would be a very good story if the focus was actually on the main plot points, rather than the filler material that was only there to fill the 20 minute run time.

It has become more and more clear to me how much time was utterly wasted dicking around in a wasteland for the first half of this show.

[nineko]

We got all the 20 red episode-title characters right? Do you guys think it had some actual meaning to them?

It turns out not to be a sentence: viewtopic.php?t=49356 (this topic mixes up hiragana and katakana, but it's otherwise correct).

[emperior]

Awesome episode once again.

I loved Vegeta’s gag and his Super Saiyan 3.

Characterization was top notch as was art and animation (the final sequence was mind blowing).

I can now say that, despite some boring fillerish episodes here and there, Daima has been fantastic and exactly what, I think, DB deserved as its sequel. It feels like a natural progression, unlike Super.

It’s confusing though as it now seemingly contradicts Super, unless some stupidity happens such as their memories being erased or Super Saiyan 4 suddenly becoming unavailable to Goku.

Is this the new canon? Kinda like Super’s take on BoG and RoF superseded the movies?

[Artorias]

Granolah had a clearly defined backstory

Having some detailed backstory means nothing if it isn't followed up on. Granolah's supposed heel turn at the end of his arc is completely offscreened and unearned, and the writing does absolute fuck all with him as a character after Gas shows up.

Glorio, in contrast, has more subtle bonding moments throughout the show but they're absolutely there, and continue long after he fights Goku. And this is standard Toriyama writing because he's never in-your-face or melodramatic with his character arcs. Everything here made perfect sense if you've been paying attention.

I'll take a million Glorios over a single Granolah any day of the week.

I think you're giving the writers too much credit, frankly. While you're correct about Granolah, Glorio has basically the opposite problem. He has essentially no character or backstory that is then followed up with a totally unearned and bizarrely emotional character arc climax. I think it's a huge stretch to say that Glorio has any real "bonding moments" with the crew in this show. Him smirking once at a character or fist bumping Panzy once is absolutely not sufficient to sell the idea that he's truly come to care about the group that he's with. We're gonna need a bit more than a COUPLE scenes like this for me to really buy that he gives a shit about any of these people. He's almost always just "guy who frowns in the corner" throughout the entire show. I don't think we should give Toriyama or the writers credit for basically forgetting the dude exists for a dozen episodes and then backloading a bunch of random development out of nowhere. Keep in mind, this character has literally had maybe 10 lines of dialogue in the past 5+ episodes. There's a middle ground between being "in-your-face or melodramatic" with character arcs, and whatever Glorio's "arc" is.

[LightBing]

The episode was entertaining, fun to see the new forms in their adult bodies. Yet nothing happened.
I'm surprised how nobody is talking about the pacing, since it was a common critique of the show overall.

- Best thing about the episode was the Vegeta gag and seeing him in SSJ3 since I wanted it since I was a kid.

- The Glorio plotline needed more depth. It's impact was very limited.

- The worst part by far was the transformation countdown. Yet more nostalgia wanking and worst it fails in essential point, introducing a new form. We already saw SSJ4! This has no impact, it's empty.

Did nobody check the scripts and saw how they ran over each other? This final battle has little coherence, it's like they wrote a bunch of ideas and shoved them all together.

Not expecting much from the last episode. The potential of this show has been mostly squandered.

[Hugo Boss]

The animation department absolutely cooked with this episode. Easily one of the best Dragon Ball episodes I’ve ever seen. The transformations, the fights, the comedic timing. Vegeta flying back instantly after Bulma’s threat had me dying, and Gomah’s weakness being a three-hit bop on the head is peak Toriyama humor. Also, seeing Super Saiyan 4 one more time was such a pleasant surprise, I literally screamed like a was in a movie theater. What a way to set up the finale.

[Mr Baggins]

While you're correct about Granolah, Glorio has basically the opposite problem. He has essentially no character or backstory that is then followed up with a totally unearned and bizarrely emotional character arc climax.

Look, man, you don't have to like Glorio as a character. I know there's plenty of shit in this franchise people find narratively compelling that rings utterly hollow to me, like OG SS4.

But what you said is factually not true. It's very hard to take criticisms like "he had no backstory until now" seriously when they just blatantly resort to spreading misinformation.

Nearly every piece of Glorio's background was revealed waaaaaay back in episode 6 when he tells the group he was originally from the third world but earned the privilege to live in the first. This is the same episode he's revealed to be working for Arinsu. Connecting the dots here isn't rocket science: Glorio lived in poverty like everyone in the third world, then Arinsu took him in in exchange for reconnaissance duties. The only new thing concerning his backstory in this episode is that he feels deeply indebted to Arinsu for doing this.

I know from yours and a lot of similar posts ITT that this was evidently forgotten about, and that's why I describe all these moments as 'subtle' – I genuinely think a lot of the detractors in these threads didn't catch things that would otherwise directly refute what they're saying, barely even understand what it is they're complaining about, and would have more to gain from simply rewatching the show than anyone.

So now I'm just convinced that over time, this fandom is going to start changing its tune when/if they go back to see what the writing was actually doing with his arc there. He consistently gets something to show (read: not "tell", which is funny when I'm addressing people that parade around "show don't tell" as if it's some sacred rule of storytelling) he's bonding with the characters or feeling conflicted about what he's doing in nearly every episode.

Him smirking once at a character or fist bumping Panzy once is absolutely not sufficient to sell the idea that he's truly come to care about the group that he's with.

I disagree. Throughout the show he displays a pretty diverse range of emotions and expressions every time the group finds themselves in a pinch, and there are a number of times we see him intervene when it would otherwise be more rational not to. And that's just the kind of character he is; Glorio has no reason to be chatterboxing a bunch of people he's literally been using from the start of their adventure. His silence is his dialogue.

I've yet to hear any counter suggestions for this character that isn't just complete nonsense like him wearing his heart on his sleeve or going on some diatribe about how conflicted he is, which, of course, would be absurdly OOC.

His arc achieves exactly what it was meant to.

[Yuji]

Once again, absolutely stunning visuals backed up by a completely vapid and empty script and story. Gomah is absolutely by FAR the worst villain in any non-movie Dragon Ball product. Just absolutely nothing going on with him at all. It also really does hurt these cool fight scenes that he takes seemingly literally zero damage from all of this. It just doesn’t feel good to watch. You can make your villain feel intimidating while still showing them take damage. Perfect Cell took enough damage from Goku before fighting Gohan to the point where he needed a Senzu bean. It didn’t magically make him any less foreboding in the fight.

Yeah, I think that's what's been irking me, is that there's no visual indicator of damage. Gomah gets gut punched and spits out some saliva but that's about it. Cell and Boo got pieces blown off, there was blood and fatigue. You could at least feel they were making progress.

[TKA]

Vegeta, in his water form, canonically fux.

That came so far out of left field that I burst out laughing, rewound to make sure I didn't misread it, and then made me forgive the last 6 episodes for being just boring action scenes ad infinitum.

I dare say this one gag has made all of Daima super worth it.

Was so taken aback by that moment that I neglected to talk about the other thing I really liked in this episode.

Goku isn’t a conventionally smart person, so he’s often times written as just an idiot. I thought him forgetting Glorio’s name was just this gag, forgetting that Toriyama is the one writing him here. But this episode pretty clearly shows that Goku saw through Glorio and never internalized his name because he wasn’t being honest with them. It’s only after Glorio comes clean and bares it all that Goku finally acknowledged him.

I don’t think Goku was deliberately doing this. But he has a knack for seeing through people. It’s a trait only Toriyama and Toyotaro remember Goku has.

[Yuji]

On a more positive note, I thought Goku's characterization this episode was great. Probably the only time I've been happy with his portrayal since the Glorio fight episode.