Is Post EoZ Content "Forbidden" Because of GT &/or EoZ serving as Toriyama's official epilogue?

[Shinsa]

I thought it was widely known that GT is non canon/side story/different timeline?

Also with Super creating a bunch of inconsistencies I was also under the assumption that the EoZ was going to be retconned. DB as a whole is super inconsistent (no pun intended) So I assumed there was always different continuities.

For example
1.Original canon DB/DBZ
2.DB/DBZ/GT
3.DB/DBZ/Super with the assumption that EOZ will be retconned since Super creates inconsistencies.
4....the other timelines from the games that I'm no familiar with.

I don't think Toriyama puts much thought into it so for me I have to contextualize it this way for it to somewhat make sense. They can easily move past Z and "retcon" or say GT is a different continuity to support the direction they are going. It sucks and I don't like the direction Super took the franchise but considering what they set up it would be unwise to be locked down to GT since it wouldn't make sense.

It would make much more sense to put Super into its own alternative timeline.

Literally ever single character got rehashed to the post just parts of EoZ make little sense.

Super is the odd ball out, not the other content.

Yup agreed, that's how I have to view things. I really enjoy EoZ as it creates a perceived cap giving the characters a limit while enjoying times of peace until Ubb is discovered. I've always seen it as him being one of the most if not the most powerful character with alittle training and discipline.

Gt made the sin of making him pretty useless and I feel Super has done it as well...unless they make up some new nonsensical transformation or he just gains god ki or ultra instinct blah blah blah. Goku has fought stronger enemies from space/ multiverse with the main cast also most likley being much stronger then Kid Buu....So imo the EoZ needs to be changed for it to flow better with Super in mind. The characters state of mind and status will be completely different then what was presented in the original manga since they've been through a lot of changes after Kid Buu.

[GokuHater]

Be it Toryiama thinking of new things as he goes, him needing longer limbs, editorial changes... Things kept changing all the time. Super does not have that energy left unfortunately. Every arc seems to be a self contained story stuck in Super limbo and while they aren't bad, they aren't also revolutionary.

Compare it to GT - while everyone is free to see it as a better series or fanfic garbage, it is anything but status quo. They seemed to experiment all the time there.

What you said lines up with Toriyama's vision for Super, which he recently said is a series that's a "casual continuation" of DB.

GT, on the other hand, is a "grand side-story".

I'm even more convinced now that the end of Super will tie into EoZ and that will be that. Toriyama seems to be perfectly content with how his manga ended.

Oh really? That's new.
Do you maybe have an interview or the conversation in which he said it? Seems quite interesting.

[PrinceVegetto]

Be it Toryiama thinking of new things as he goes, him needing longer limbs, editorial changes... Things kept changing all the time. Super does not have that energy left unfortunately. Every arc seems to be a self contained story stuck in Super limbo and while they aren't bad, they aren't also revolutionary.

Compare it to GT - while everyone is free to see it as a better series or fanfic garbage, it is anything but status quo. They seemed to experiment all the time there.

What you said lines up with Toriyama's vision for Super, which he recently said is a series that's a "casual continuation" of DB.

GT, on the other hand, is a "grand side-story".

I'm even more convinced now that the end of Super will tie into EoZ and that will be that. Toriyama seems to be perfectly content with how his manga ended.

Oh really? That's new.
Do you maybe have an interview or the conversation in which he said it? Seems quite interesting.

It's from an interview for DBS Super Hero

[Alkiser]

I thought it was widely known that GT is non canon/side story/different timeline?

Also with Super creating a bunch of inconsistencies I was also under the assumption that the EoZ was going to be retconned. DB as a whole is super inconsistent (no pun intended) So I assumed there was always different continuities.

For example
1.Original canon DB/DBZ
2.DB/DBZ/GT
3.DB/DBZ/Super with the assumption that EOZ will be retconned since Super creates inconsistencies.
4....the other timelines from the games that I'm no familiar with.

I don't think Toriyama puts much thought into it so for me I have to contextualize it this way for it to somewhat make sense. They can easily move past Z and "retcon" or say GT is a different continuity to support the direction they are going. It sucks and I don't like the direction Super took the franchise but considering what they set up it would be unwise to be locked down to GT since it wouldn't make sense.

It would make much more sense to put Super into its own alternative timeline.

Literally ever single character got rehashed to the post just parts of EoZ make little sense.

Super is the odd ball out, not the other content.

Yup agreed, that's how I have to view things. I really enjoy EoZ as it creates a perceived cap giving the characters a limit while enjoying times of peace until Ubb is discovered. I've always seen it as him being one of the most if not the most powerful character with alittle training and discipline.

Gt made the sin of making him pretty useless and I feel Super has done it as well...unless they make up some new nonsensical transformation or he just gains god ki or ultra instinct blah blah blah. Goku has fought stronger enemies from space/ multiverse with the main cast also most likley being much stronger then Kid Buu....So imo the EoZ needs to be changed for it to flow better with Super in mind. The characters state of mind and status will be completely different then what was presented in the original manga since they've been through a lot of changes after Kid Buu.

After all, Uub has God ki (Moro saga)

[Hellspawn28]

GT is it's own thing and does not line up with Super at all. They will probably go beyond EoZ and do a story that has nothing to do with GT. GT is view as its own thing and won't be erased because they go beyond EoZ. You can have multiple continuities you know. No different how Godzilla do it with their movies or how SNK keeps both Fatal Fury & King of Fighters in their own universe.

[PrinceVegetto]

I was thinking about this topic again with news of the DBS manga ending its hiatus...for the eventual Black Freeza arc do we foresee it happening beyond Age 784 or will it be in Age 783 like Super Hero?

[Basaku]

I was thinking about this topic again with news of the DBS manga ending its hiatus...for the eventual Black Freeza arc do we foresee it happening beyond Age 784 or will it be in Age 783 like Super Hero?

The Turnks&Goten story will be a one-shot, the manga's not exactly coming back full time yet. That being said I expect it will return within a year or so eventually and it will be about Black Freeza, that just has to be resolved already (he debuted two years ago lol). IMO it wil be set before EOZ and neatly wrap up Super era as the last thing Toriyama worked on with story suggestions etc. Besides... how many more giant arcs and they cram within this 10-year gap anyway, it's already gotten silly. One way or another it's high time to finish this era

Post-EOZ, now more than ever, feels like a clean break point and TBH, I'm not even sure they will actually tackle it. Or if they do it won't happen for many more years, they'll milk Daima and Super 2 first to the absolute limit and that will take many years

[dbs fanboy]

Honestly I think the main reason we don't go beyond EoZ is because Toriyama just didn't want to and Toeiyotaro respects him too much to do something different I guess.

Think about, to Toriyama Dragon Ball was done and over decades ago, he probably viewed all modern Dragon ball as little bonuses. But as far as he was concerned, his continuity just had Goku and co having fun, harmless adventures during a mostly peaceful period, then Goku became the strongest guy or whatever, left to train Uub, and that was the end of it.

Because let's be real, there are ways to work around "characters being too old"

I mean, Gohan is still young, Goku and Vegeta won't actually age until they're 80; and Piccolo and the androids don't even age at all.

Plus Bulma using the Dragon Balls to be younger.........yeah there are definitely a lot of things you can do with the characters, he just didn't because he was done with Dragon Ball, but enjoyed telling fun stories for the fans.

I will not be surprised if in the future we get beyond EoZ material, but at that point it won't be the same Dragon Ball anymore.

Best thing I hope is for the franchise to go to sleep for a few years and come back when a creative willing to go balls to the wall and have fun appears.

Toyotaro is neat, but he plays it too safe.

[dbs fanboy]

I’m still banking on them undoing all of Super completely. It just makes the most sense story wise really.

Like the excitement for Uub doesn’t make a whole lot of sense after the gangs progression and they’re long past the point where power progression is even in-universe believable anymore.

Also the color swaps make me vomit, not only the lack of originality but just the plan ugly color choice and designs. It’s almost parody or at least something I would have drawn up and thought was cool in middle school.

Why this obsession with undoing? Just don't watch it/see it as a different continuity and that's it.

You don't need to be obsessed with Canon, Dragon Ball ended decades ago these are just little bonuses, you can watch it if you enjoy it or just ignore it completely.

It's like a choose your adventure kind of thing.

No need to take it too seriously

[TheMikado]

I’m still banking on them undoing all of Super completely. It just makes the most sense story wise really.

Like the excitement for Uub doesn’t make a whole lot of sense after the gangs progression and they’re long past the point where power progression is even in-universe believable anymore.

Also the color swaps make me vomit, not only the lack of originality but just the plan ugly color choice and designs. It’s almost parody or at least something I would have drawn up and thought was cool in middle school.

Why this obsession with undoing? Just don't watch it/see it as a different continuity and that's it.

You don't need to be obsessed with Canon, Dragon Ball ended decades ago these are just little bonuses, you can watch it if you enjoy it or just ignore it completely.

It's like a choose your adventure kind of thing.

No need to take it too seriously

I only care about them “undoing” it for a consistent plot. Also more hilarious in context with SSJ4 being canon now.

[dbs fanboy]

I’m still banking on them undoing all of Super completely. It just makes the most sense story wise really.

Like the excitement for Uub doesn’t make a whole lot of sense after the gangs progression and they’re long past the point where power progression is even in-universe believable anymore.

Also the color swaps make me vomit, not only the lack of originality but just the plan ugly color choice and designs. It’s almost parody or at least something I would have drawn up and thought was cool in middle school.

Why this obsession with undoing? Just don't watch it/see it as a different continuity and that's it.

You don't need to be obsessed with Canon, Dragon Ball ended decades ago these are just little bonuses, you can watch it if you enjoy it or just ignore it completely.

It's like a choose your adventure kind of thing.

No need to take it too seriously

I only care about them “undoing” it for a consistent plot. Also more hilarious in context with SSJ4 being canon now.

You can have your consistent plot by just dismissing anything post EoZ, tho, just the manga.

[GokuHater]

Dragon Ball wont ever undo anything.
Why would they?

Do you really think the suits at Toei care about plot coherence or canonicity?
They care whether the product sells.

Remaking or undiong a series is a costly and timely process... Which may not work out.
That's the reason why they don't do anything like this
The closest we got was Kai but it never overwrote Z, just was a shortened version of it.

They made Daima as a series with similar ideas to GT but no one blutunly stated "GT now doesn't exist".

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Remaking or undoing a series is a costly and timely process... Which may not work out.

There's also the fact that stating something "doesn't count" will have a negative impact on its sales. DLC, merchandise, homes releases, etc... will all go down if someone official said GT or the old movies no longer count.

[JulieYBM]

Anime get remade all the time and nobody ever bothers saying that the old project no longer counts. Go look at how many adaptions of GeGeGe no Kitarou there are lol.

Dragon Ball GT will inevitably be referenced again. Just be patient.

[super michael]

Anime get remade all the time and nobody ever bothers saying that the old project no longer counts. Go look at how many adaptions of GeGeGe no Kitarou there are lol.

Dragon Ball GT will inevitably be referenced again. Just be patient.

I will have to check GeGeGe no Kitarou, first time hearing about it. However you are right many anime does get remake, there is Captain Tsubasa, Shaman King, FullMetal Alchemist, Dragon Quest Dai Great Adventure, Dororo, Sailor Moon, etc. If I continue adding, the list would get long.

Remakes can happen at any time, it can happens in a couple years and maybe even decades later. Just look at One Piece, it is going to get a remake and it isn't even over the anime.

[GokuHater]

Remaking or undoing a series is a costly and timely process... Which may not work out.

There's also the fact that stating something "doesn't count" will have a negative impact on its sales. DLC, merchandise, homes releases, etc... will all go down if someone official said GT or the old movies no longer count.

Exactly.

People.who don't care about GT are going to have a reason to care even less which can negatively affect GT merchandise which in turn is bad for Toei.

While people who are fans of GT will feel demotivated and disappointed, which also is bad for Toei

With Super and Daima it works the same.

[MCDaveG]

There is this Toriyama wish to not go beyond it and basically all the stuff he helped work is stuck in this gap limbo.
What I always found interesting is, how Dragon Ball revolutionized and kinda paved the way with huge timeskips.
We now take that for granted but having timeskip during which the characters age or change considerably was quite punk back in the day and the outlook was that it will break the show and alienate the viewers. It's similar to how they went with new designs for Ressurection F to later ditch them and going back to the same Z era looks.

The only anime show I remember from 80s and top of my head that did a huuuuge timeskip (and it's mecha cult classic now but wasn't really a hit) was Aoki Ryusei SPT Layzner. Funny tidbit: The Scouters in the manga and anime series Dragon Ball Z were heavily inspired by the "targeting eyepieces" of the SPTs; however, Eiji does not use a targeting eyepiece in the series until some episodes later (originally, he wears a full-face helmet). But I'd take that statement with a grain of salt, as one-eye glasses aren't actually a revolutionary thing and the inspiration could've gone from anywhere. But yeah, there are actually characters using scouters in pretty much the same design as DB in the show from 1985 and piloting giant robots
It's quite a dark and serious show and in some way quite brutal and not afraid to kill off most of the characters, with some of the most dark and serious shows from the genre like Z Gundam being pale in comparison. That also didn't probably help with ratings.

Spoiler:

But outside of Toriyama's wish and TOEI doing GT again with the possibility of doing another crap spin-off that is subpar to the original in many ways, I don't see any reason why not to go beyond or basically, do a spin-off/sideshow, that's not tucked in this timeline.
And with so many timeskips, Dragon Ball can explore those as well (from top of my head, between 23rd and Raditz, between Freeza and Androids, but that is pretty much filled kinda, between Cell and Buu... not to forget years of tournament timeskips, that weren't covered and Goku was training in the early portions), but it's not the flashy stuff like with the recent era and I would be super fatigued as I kinda already am from Super and Daima and the movies happening there and not even connecting much in-between each other.

Oficially, nothing is forbidden

Anyways, on the off-topic with Layzner, I can recommend it for any fan of Hokuto No Ken and real mecha genre like Gundam, as it is pretty much like these two franchises merged together ...with scouters. And made by Sunrise, hence on par quality 80s TV stuff compared to TOEI and their cheap practices.

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfW-6EKB8-0

[PrinceVegetto]

There is this Toriyama wish to not go beyond it and basically all the stuff he helped work is stuck in this gap limbo.
]

Toriyama himself said around the time of Battle of Gods that he felt the characters were simply too old by EoZ, which is why he chose to set new stories before it in the first place. But we don’t know if Toriyama's thoughts on the age issue changed or what his longer-term vision for Super might have been...It seems to me the long manga hiatus is because there potentially were no plans that Toriyama had signed off on after Super Hero.

Back in 2017, Toyotaro was rumored to have said at a comic con in Italy, that EoZ will be adhered to...

"we are preparing the ground to direct Dragon Ball Super into original Dragon Ball Z ending."

But I've never found that quote to be true from Kanzenshuu's translation:
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2017/05/07/w ... i-comicon/

[Scsigs]

Toriyama has already said that he doesn't like stories with characters who have aged, and that's why "Super" takes place in the 10-year gap after Z, because the characters are too old at the end of Z. But now there won't be much room to squeeze in more story, as Super Hero takes place almost immediately before the tournament, so there are only two options for the future: end it or continue after the tournament. I hope for the latter.

THIS is just fucking stupid. Doing the math, Goku would be 45, but physically 37 because he'd been dead for a total of 8 years where, presumably, he didn't physically age.
12+1=13+1=14+1=15+3=18+5=23+1=24+1=25+3=28+7=35+10=45.
45-8=37
On top of that, he added the fact that Saiyans basically stop physically aging & stay at their physical prime for a while longer than humans. To say that they're "too old" is just really dumb.

Also, the Tournament of Power happens a year before the end of the manga/Z, as Pan's 3 in the movie & at the end of the manga, she's 4.

I also don't think it's forbidden to go passed the end of the manga. Saying it's because of GT is stupid because there's no way GT is canon to the manga for multiple reasons discussed in other threads. Plus, who actually wants GT to be the only continuation of stuff after the end of the manga? GT going passed the end of the manga provides a good reason why they still can if they wanted to, but also Toriyama helped with the lore of DB Online, as well as the new Age 1000 video game they announced. Plus, Xenoverse clearly takes place years after the manga, first 2 animes, Super, the movies, & GT take place in the timeline. Also, Neko Majin Z made a reference to Goku training Uub at 1 point. It's also pretty clear that if Toriyama didn't die & the Super manga was still going, he'd be forced to go after the end of the original manga. I'd appreciate a timeskip so we can just go to after the end of the manga. Perhaps while Goku's training Uub. I don't think it needs to go the full 5 years that GT did, but just a few years. Have an arc where Goku acts as a mentor to Uub in his own way. Have him go full circle so he's put in the Master Roshi role similar to how he was when training Gohan as well as Trunks & Goten. I'd love to see Goku be a teacher. It'd be a nice logical move for him. Plus, you can tell an interesting arc with both of them solving some kind of big problem together. That would also give them the chance to give Uub some nice character development & show how different he is than Goku while also being his pupil. Something like that would be great.

[super michael]

What is stopping them from using the Dragon Balls to wish them young? The Z fighters became children in Daima and in GT Goku turned into a kid.

In DBS Super Hero and Broly movie Bulma uses the Dragon Balls for cosmetic use.