The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Mystic-han]

Early Buu arc Hypothetical SS2 Goten vs Super Perfect Cell.
Early Buu arc Hypothetical SS2 Trunks vs Dabura.

Early Buu arc SS Trunks vs Cell Games SS Goku.
If Trunks can beat him, could he also beat the stronger SS Gohan? not in a row, of course.

It's just Dabura with regeneration vs a weaker version of Rusty Gohan it's obvious who's going to win

As for Trunks vs Goku it's up to you , he's Weaker than Buu saga gohan who was weaker than Cell games Gohan

[Noah]

New match:

- Hypothetical Third Eye Dabura vs. Super Boohan

[Berserker1921]

New match:

- Hypothetical Third Eye Dabura vs. Super Boohan

Dabura would probably win. It was stated that Gomah was the strongest villain at that time. And if let’s say that Third Eye doesn’t have a set power increase or level up. Dabura is eons above Gomah. He was at least Ssj Goku (Cell Saga) power level before Babidi kidnapped him.

I bet Dabura would probably reach Ssj 1 or Ssj 2 Vegito levels. So, he stomps hard.

[BernardoCairo]

How much stronger is Android 20 compared to Namek Freeza?
I am tired of people claiming that Freeza could beat Android 20 simply because the Androids were defeated by Super Saiyajin level characters. That argument ignores the massive power escalation that happens after Namek. Vegeta clearly scales above Super Saiyajin Goku at the start of the Android saga, even accounting for Goku’s heart virus. Goku still trained for three years specifically to face the Androids, on top of the additional year he spent mastering techniques on Yardrat. Piccolo was also stated to be around Super Saiyajin level and trained alongside a Super Saiyajin for those same three years. This directly contradicts the idea that Piccolo only surpassed Freeza after fusing with Kami Sama later in the story. When you look at the overall scaling, it becomes clear that everyone involved by the Android saga is comfortably stronger than any Namek level character by a significant margin.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How much stronger is Android 20 compared to Namek Freeza?
I am tired of people claiming that Freeza could beat Android 20 simply because the Androids were defeated by Super Saiyajin level characters. That argument ignores the massive power escalation that happens after Namek. Vegeta clearly scales above Super Saiyajin Goku at the start of the Android saga, even accounting for Goku’s heart virus. Goku still trained for three years specifically to face the Androids, on top of the additional year he spent mastering techniques on Yardrat. Piccolo was also stated to be around Super Saiyajin level and trained alongside a Super Saiyajin for those same three years. This directly contradicts the idea that Piccolo only surpassed Freeza after fusing with Kami Sama later in the story. When you look at the overall scaling, it becomes clear that everyone involved by the Android saga is comfortably stronger than any Namek level character by a significant margin.

He's a lot stronger, but not multiple times stronger. Most people scale him to be around the level of Goku and Trunks when they met, 3 years before the androids arrived.

[Almighty Majin]

Let us assume a hypothetical version of Cell with a different genetic make up:
Turles
Broly (Z)
Lord Slug
Cooler
Chilled

How strong would this version of Cell be? How high would his potential be?

[DBZ Macky]

New Match:
Future Gohan VS Present Gohan (Power Levels Equalized)

Basically boils down to who you think is more skilled / has better experience. Both also apparently know the Makankosappo if games are to be taken as a legit source.

Let us assume a hypothetical version of Cell with a different genetic make up:
Turles
Broly (Z)
Lord Slug
Cooler
Chilled

How strong would this version of Cell be? How high would his potential be?

This is really interesting as each character is basically the movie counterpart of the characters that make up Cell's DNA:

Turles < Vegeta. The Tree of Might is what makes Turles strong, and even with that he's inferior to Vegeta in every way given the latter's massive power jumps on Namek.

Z!Broly > Goku. None of Goku's techniques are genetic so this is just straight up a MASSIVE upgrade. At worst you could argue that Cell learning Instant Transmission was because of Goku's ability to (most of the time) mimic techniques after just seeing them once. But still, doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things since Cooler also ends up learning the technique.

Lord Slug > Piccolo. Slug is straight up stronger than Piccolo (not fused with Kami), it's just that he doesn't train so this is also an upgrade.

Cooler > Frieza since that's literally the point of his character. Even if we consider training, SDBH Cooler can also go Golden so it seems that Cooler has just as much or more potential than Frieza when it comes to increasing his power with training.

Chilled < Cold just judging from the fact that Bardock was able to defeat the former whereas the latter had a larger Ki than a relaxed Frieza according to the Anime.

Overall, while Turles and Chilled hold him back, Movie!Cell should be massively stronger than Canon!Cell. I'd think this Cell would initially be stronger than SS Grade II Vegeta and Trunks even in his Imperfect Form but would by far surpass SS2 Gohan once he reaches his final Super Perfect form. Would still be just shy of Fat Buu's power level, but if he actually trains then I think there's no one that can defeat him, not even Zeno.

He would be pretty dumb compared to Canon!Cell though since he has Slug instead of Piccolo (big gap), Broly instead of Goku (small gap with big personality issues) and the guy that thought attacking Trunks with his sword was a good idea instead of Frieza who was apparently the first of his thousands-of-years old clan to eventually figure out how to do a push-up.

How much stronger is Android 20 compared to Namek Freeza?

Closer to Base Saiyans than the Super Saiyans when you consider the fact that, off-guard or not, Goku's punch staggered him. If you think that Base Goku (Android Saga) > Super Saiyan Goku (Frieza Saga) then by all means go ahead but I personally think nobody in that part of the story was actually Super Saiyan Level™ unless they were a Super Saiyan, absorbed energy from one or were named Piccolo. I do think everyone was strong/skilled enough to hold their ground against those characters, though.

New match:

- Hypothetical Third Eye Dabura vs. Super Boohan

The main thing to consider is that Mini Super Saiyan 4 characters are weaker than Adult Super Saiyan 3s.
Super Buu, not even Buuhan, was beyond Super Saiyan 3 Goku's level.
Gomah had to power up multiple times and was initially having trouble with Mini SS4 Goku. Dabura gets turned into candy and it's GG.

It was stated that Gomah was the strongest villain at that time.

Strongest villain in Daima. Not a single statement about his power being compared to Buu or Gohan or anyone else. Also didn't do any real damage to anyone despite being "the strongest villain". Pillow hands with maxed out defense who would still lose to a Hellzone grenade or Vegeta's Ki Blast spam attack if two blasts accidentally attacked his weak point.

[BernardoCairo]

Closer to Base Saiyans than the Super Saiyans when you consider the fact that, off-guard or not, Goku's punch staggered him. If you think that Base Goku (Android Saga) > Super Saiyan Goku (Frieza Saga) then by all means go ahead but I personally think nobody in that part of the story was actually Super Saiyan Level™ unless they were a Super Saiyan, absorbed energy from one or were named Piccolo. I do think everyone was strong/skilled enough to hold their ground against those characters, though.

It makes sense, but Gero still seemed pretty confident when Goku showed up as a Super Saiyajin, even though he wasn’t expecting it.
I also don’t really get why the Z Fighters would train for three years, not surpass Freeza, and still show up to fight the Androids when they were explicitly said to be even stronger.

[DBZ Macky]

Closer to Base Saiyans than the Super Saiyans when you consider the fact that, off-guard or not, Goku's punch staggered him. If you think that Base Goku (Android Saga) > Super Saiyan Goku (Frieza Saga) then by all means go ahead but I personally think nobody in that part of the story was actually Super Saiyan Level™ unless they were a Super Saiyan, absorbed energy from one or were named Piccolo. I do think everyone was strong/skilled enough to hold their ground against those characters, though.

It makes sense, but Gero still seemed pretty confident when Goku showed up as a Super Saiyajin, even though he wasn’t expecting it.
I also don’t really get why the Z Fighters would train for three years, not surpass Freeza, and still show up to fight the Androids when they were explicitly said to be even stronger.

I personally think Gero was banking on the Z-Fighters not knowing about the energy absorption thing and thus powering the androids up, which is what ended up happening. They were durable enough to not get one-shotted by a punch even while "uncharged" and yet, as I said, did get staggered by Base Goku which is why I think if, roughly, Base Goku = 3,000,000 and SS Goku = 150,000,000 then their starting power levels would probably be somewhere in between, say something like 30,000,000.

Also, them training for 3 years and still not surpassing Frieza is realistic considering that Yamcha (1,480) and Chiaotzu (610) didn't even surpass Raditz (1,500) even though they knew about the Saiyans' arrival and had trained for it for an entire year.

[dbgtFO]

Closer to Base Saiyans than the Super Saiyans when you consider the fact that, off-guard or not, Goku's punch staggered him. If you think that Base Goku (Android Saga) > Super Saiyan Goku (Frieza Saga) then by all means go ahead but I personally think nobody in that part of the story was actually Super Saiyan Level™ unless they were a Super Saiyan, absorbed energy from one or were named Piccolo. I do think everyone was strong/skilled enough to hold their ground against those characters, though.

It makes sense, but Gero still seemed pretty confident when Goku showed up as a Super Saiyajin, even though he wasn’t expecting it.
I also don’t really get why the Z Fighters would train for three years, not surpass Freeza, and still show up to fight the Androids when they were explicitly said to be even stronger.

The Earthling squad are brave warriors, they will show up despite knowing they are individually outmatched.
They already did so for Freeza.
Neither of them claim to have become strong enough to handle the threat on their own and they likely would be ok as long as Goku was there.
Krillin even brings up the fact that he's not a Super Saiyan, when asked about his thoughts, ie. he's simply not on that level.

As for Dr. Gero and Android 19, I take this whole start of the arc as a reset basically.
Toriyama having to change the villains and having to throw Goku & co all into the RoSaT for extra training that actually gives them new forms and gigantic powerups leads me to the conclusion that the 3 years of training barely accomplished anything at the top end.

Future Trunks is still held up as an example of power to anyone not named Goku and Vegeta and the gap between him and the two pure Saiyans is not described as big.
Futhermore there's no indication that he became stronger in those 3 years either, so the narrative crafted here is essentially one of the Super Saiyans at the top end not being so far removed from the Super Saiyans of 3 years ago and therefore also not the first Super Saiyan against Freeza.
People are gonna bring up Tenshinhan's statement, but that reeks of a gigantic reset too.
He words his statement like this is the first time he's ever seen SS Goku, not like how this SS Goku is much more impressive than 3 years ago.
If Toriyama wanted to establish such comparison, then he would have that be specifically said, instead of this very weird wording.

So I think Dr. Gero and Android 19 are like basically stand ins for the threat posed by Freeza and Cold 3 years prior, but with absorption abilities thrown in, making them much deadlier, despite their starting power being quite unimpressive to the point a powered up Piccolo, who though still a good way off a Super Saiyan is enough for either of them.