Dragon Ball Super: Beerus - Episode 3 - Official Discussion Thread

[Mister_Popo]

On one hand, I can understand some of the backlash. They slashed the episode count by more than half. Knowing they want to keep the main fight scenes fully intact anyway, you already know the slice-of-life elements of the story will be heavily butchered. Since we are (once again) at the start of a 'new' story, getting extra screen time with characters other than Goku is highly appreciated. If a retelling of the Battle of Gods movie made any sense at all, it was to flesh out those everyday moments even further. The goal of this enhanced edition is to trim the fat, which I can understand to some extent given how expensive re-animation is. Even so, a BoG arc spanning 7 to 8 episodes would have been much more appropriate for this edition.

Too much slice-of-life is crammed into a single episode here. It would have been better to end the episode right at the pudding incident with Buu (the turning point), dedicating this entire episode to building tension and spending necessary time with the characters. Because they try to shove too much into one episode, delivering a cohesive edit becomes incredibly difficult—and it shows. Additionally, there is an overreliance on dimming and zooming. While this can enhance the dramatic tone when used selectively, here it just feels pretty overdone.

On the other hand, I still don't think, despite its flaws, this episode is an absolute abomination. There are multiple ways to interpret and adapt the same story, and I believe there is room for an open mind here. In this episode, DBS: Beerus actually had the balls to do what this franchise is often criticized for failing to do: shatter sacred cows and try something completely different. The portrayal isn't automatically worse just because DBS: Beerus "dares" to omit iconic moments like Vegeta's takoyaki-cooking scene. I say "dares" because while cutting it was undoubtedly convenient, I also believe it was a deliberate artistic choice.

The fear, anxiety, and bottled-up rage and frustration Vegeta experiences are highlighted in a completely different way for his BoG character arc. In the BoG movie (with the bingo dance) and the DBS anime (with the takoyaki scene and numerous other sycophantic gestures), Vegeta desperately cast his pride aside to avert disaster, showing his anxiety externally through his actions. This edition approaches it differently: the traumatic past of Vegeta and his father acts as an internal catalyst. Vegeta becomes so overwhelmed by his own emotions that he is simply paralyzed, unable to act. A takoyaki scene would not fit that state of mind at all.

Ultimately, the Bulma scene is just the final push he needs to explode and release everything he has been suppressing. It doesn't even matter that Bulma isn't deliberately violently struck, but rather shoved aside by Beerus's elbow (which is clearly a result of censorship nonetheless). He simply needed a deeply personal trigger to snap him out of his fear-induced freeze and transform those emotions into pure Saiyan rage. It's just a different way of telling the same story. Better or worse? That depends on how you view Vegeta's character. A proud Saiyan Prince kissing Beerus's ass isn't necessarily more "in character" to me. It feels rather atypical for Vegeta—and therefore comedic—despite all the character development he went through in DBZ. Although the original portrayal was iconic in its own funny right, I can still appreciate the way it is presented here as an alternative version—especially since there are enough other comedic moments (like the wasabi or Buu incidents) to keep the overall tone somewhat lighthearted.

[Noah]

This has been the episode that felt the most like OG DBS so far, with other characters showing up, more upbeat tracks playing in the background, and silly jokes.

- I thought it was kinda dumb that they replaced Vegeta serving Beerus with him using some mind-powered floating bowl thing?

- Didn't like how they cut the chef Vegeta scene.

- Beerus' scream during the pudding scene was a bit over the top, but funny.

- Was Beerus beating up Mr. Satan in the original? Because if it was, I thought that scene was stupid as hell, on the same level as Omega Shenron kicking him in GT. Like, how the F did he survive that?

- They keep reusing tracks from the ToP arc. Did they forget that the first DBS soundtrack album also has some bangers?

- I don't remember Beerus acting this stupid over pudding in the original.

- I liked how Bulma shaking Beerus and him retaliating with a shoulder bump was handled way better than having him slap her back after she slapped him.

- I hope my subtitles are wrong, but did they seriously keep the incorrect 10% line? Holy sh*t, are they really expecting us to believe Beerus used 10% of his power against Rageta, when we're supposed to assume he's currently stronger than Black Freeza?

- And the episode ends with some lame drama about Oolong deciding the fate of the planet by playing rock-paper-scissors with Beerus, when it should really be with Goku arriving in the scene.

[Kenji]

The focus is on the main story which is Goku vs. Beerus. You care about those questions because you've watched the 2013 movie and the 2015 anime, but for a new audience, it simply doesn't matter.

For me, someone who thinks the original Super is 9/10 and the only downsides are the inconsistent artwork and the filler, this is a great remaster.

My boyfriend describes Dragon Ball as "an unfunny, uninteresting dick-measuring contest with shallow Mary-Sue characters, and it's been like that ever since the day Toriyama started writing it. It has no story, it's all about the fighting and pretty lights being thrown around. New guy shows up, new guy has super big dick, old guys have super tiny dicks, Goku then pulls viagra transformation out of his ass and gets the bigger dick. Rinse and repeat."

Now, I want you to ask yourself: Do you want new fans to think Dragon Ball is exactly that?
Or would you rather give them a more balanced experience where Dragon Ball backs itself up with good comedy, good storytelling, good characterization and good direction? IMO, Super: Beeerus is a quite awful starting point for new audiences, because it provides nothing of entertainment value other than pretty visuals and fighting. I suppose that's enough for the average Dragon Ball fanboy, but even the original Super would be a better start if you wanted not to bore everyone else to death, but the bar is in Hell at this point.

[SupremeKai25]

The focus is on the main story which is Goku vs. Beerus. You care about those questions because you've watched the 2013 movie and the 2015 anime, but for a new audience, it simply doesn't matter.

For me, someone who thinks the original Super is 9/10 and the only downsides are the inconsistent artwork and the filler, this is a great remaster.

My boyfriend describes Dragon Ball as "an unfunny, uninteresting dick-measuring contest with shallow Mary-Sue characters, and it's been like that ever since the day Toriyama started writing it. It has no story, it's all about the fighting and pretty lights being thrown around. New guy shows up, new guy has super big dick, old guys have super tiny dicks, Goku then pulls viagra transformation out of his ass and gets the bigger dick. Rinse and repeat."

Now, I want you to ask yourself: Do you want new fans to think Dragon Ball is exactly that?
Or would you rather give them a more balanced experience where Dragon Ball backs itself up with good comedy, good storytelling, good characterization and good direction? IMO, Super: Beeerus is a quite awful starting point for new audiences, because it provides nothing of entertainment value other than pretty visuals and fighting. I suppose that's enough for the average Dragon Ball fanboy, but even the original Super would be a better start if you wanted not to bore everyone else to death, but the bar is in Hell at this point.

This saga in the original Super WAS boring, though. I remember watching it in Summer 2015 and for the first month it was just one filler episode after another. As I said, you don't need 100 scenes of Vegeta doing slice of life stuff to convey the point that he's been pacified by the earthlings.

As much as I liked the original Super, I liked mostly the fights and main story. Let's not kid ourselvs, the original anime was BORING. When they got to the big fights and the major story developments it was awesome, but before that? As I said, I waited like 1 month for Goku to fight Beerus. And not because of anything important, but because Toei thought it was an intelligent idea to make a whole episode about Pilaf lost at sea.

The 2015 Anime was absolutely not "balanced."

[Kenji]

This saga in the original Super WAS boring, though. I remember watching it in Summer 2015 and for the first month it was just one filler episode after another. As I said, you don't need 100 scenes of Vegeta doing slice of life stuff to convey the point that he's been pacified by the earthlings.

Battle of Gods wasn't boring, though.
This somehow manages to be even more boring than the original Super, which is quite a feat.

[SupremeKai25]

This saga in the original Super WAS boring, though. I remember watching it in Summer 2015 and for the first month it was just one filler episode after another. As I said, you don't need 100 scenes of Vegeta doing slice of life stuff to convey the point that he's been pacified by the earthlings.

Battle of Gods wasn't boring, though.
This somehow manages to be even more boring than the original Super, which is quite a feat.

Did you watch the original Super in 2015? Or did you binge watch it after the saga was finished?

As I said, it took at least one month if not more for Goku to finally get SSG. There was a whole episode about Pilaf being lost at sea. That's one week gone. Episodes were filled with Vegeta acting like a clown and slice of life stuff. Time wasted.

How is this remaster more boring than wasting a week watching the adventures of Pilaf in the ocean?

[Kenji]

As I said, it took at least one month if not more for Goku to finally get SSG. There was a whole episode about Pilaf being lost at sea. That's one week gone. Episodes were filled with Vegeta acting like a clown and slice of life stuff. Time wasted.

How is this remaster more boring than wasting a week watching the adventures of Pilaf in the ocean?

Because an empty is still an empty plate.
As I said numerous times, I don't care about the fight scenes, I'm here for the story, the characters, the comedy, the direction, etc. Literally, everything else that is not a fight scene. Strip all of it away, what is left of Super: Beerus?

Goku is a generic good character defending Earth.
Beerus is a generic petty evil character threatening Earth.
Vegeta is a generic grumpy shonen rival forever in Goku's shadow.
The other characters are barely even factors in the story.
The story is as formulaic as formulaic can get.
Zero comedy, zero growth of character, not even competent direction, the pacing and visuals are all over the place, which wasn't even a problem in the original Super.

It's been three episodes, and this show has given me nothing but fanservice after fanservice.
I'm glad you're part of the target audience this project is aiming for, but I'm not.
I don't care about the fight scenes, the pretty visuals, the transformations, or the cool factor.
And so, I stand on an empty plate.

Super 1.0 at least gave me crumbs, but nothing will ever be compared to the full meal that Battle of Gods gave me.

[kemuri07]

And hell, even the fight scenes aren't particularly that great in itself.

Goku is a generic good character defending Earth.
Beerus is a generic petty evil character threatening Earth.
Vegeta is a generic grumpy shonen rival forever in Goku's shadow.
The other characters are barely even factors in the story.
The story is as formulaic as formulaic can get.
Zero comedy whatsoever.
Zero growth of character.
Zero entertainment value.

And yet fora subset of Dragonball fans, this absolutely is an improvement. Not just for Super, but Dragonball entirely.

[danyq94]

This saga in the original Super WAS boring, though. I remember watching it in Summer 2015 and for the first month it was just one filler episode after another. As I said, you don't need 100 scenes of Vegeta doing slice of life stuff to convey the point that he's been pacified by the earthlings.

Battle of Gods wasn't boring, though.
This somehow manages to be even more boring than the original Super, which is quite a feat.

Did you watch the original Super in 2015? Or did you binge watch it after the saga was finished?

As I said, it took at least one month if not more for Goku to finally get SSG. There was a whole episode about Pilaf being lost at sea. That's one week gone. Episodes were filled with Vegeta acting like a clown and slice of life stuff. Time wasted.

How is this remaster more boring than wasting a week watching the adventures of Pilaf in the ocean?

The only difference is that Vegeta's ridiculous moment was in Toriyama's script—something that a series with “a vision close to that of Akira Toriyama” should have kept.

[Zephyr]

That was a really weird episode of Dragon Ball.

[Mister_Popo]

Battle of Gods wasn't boring, though.
This somehow manages to be even more boring than the original Super, which is quite a feat.

Did you watch the original Super in 2015? Or did you binge watch it after the saga was finished?

As I said, it took at least one month if not more for Goku to finally get SSG. There was a whole episode about Pilaf being lost at sea. That's one week gone. Episodes were filled with Vegeta acting like a clown and slice of life stuff. Time wasted.

How is this remaster more boring than wasting a week watching the adventures of Pilaf in the ocean?

The only difference is that Vegeta's ridiculous moment was in Toriyama's script—something that a series with “a vision close to that of Akira Toriyama” should have kept.

Being 'true to Toriyama's vision' is a fallacy, because the man has been dead for two and a half years now and was not directly involved in this project. Besides, if they really wanted to stay true to Toriyama's vision, the bingo scene should have been included. Now, TOEI is simply leaving out a scene that they made up themselves in their own version. This series is an enhanced version of the anime, not of the BOG movie.

[CodeOfMe]

I haven't been keeping up with Super: Beerus, but I heard many things about this particular episode, and after seeing a few clips, I decided to give it a watch... and it's confirmed something I've thought for many years now: there's no reason to experience Battle of Gods in any format besides the movie (okay, well, I actually haven't read the manga version of this arc, so maybe there's something of merit there; sorry, Toyotaro).

Original Super is a meandering mess with barely finished animation backed by Sumitomo's god-awful BGM (I actually like some of Sumitomo's tracks, but the tracks that were chosen and how they were placed did not do him any favors), and now Super: Beerus is cutting out key moments--the removal of the bingo/takoyaki scenes, for one, which showcased how much Vegeta had grown and how he was willing to forsake his pride (yes, "pride," the thing he never shut up about back in Z) to keep his friends and family safe; and now just having the Pilaf Gang be there, clearly younger, with no explanation, which is sure to confound anyone who jumps straight from Z/Kai to Super: Beerus (which was the whole purpose of this remaster, right? To make early Super a better watching experience so that any newcomers could watch it and the rest of Super before the Moro adaptation begins?). It's so strange, this style of editing, though I have heard that it isn't too dissimilar to what happened to the Fishman Island re-edit One Piece got.

But that could be forgiven, even, if what WAS kept was made better. But instead we have purple lightning cracks and lowered saturation? Very serious stuff, that pudding theft! And that's without mentioning the incredibly disjointed pacing: Why must we have a dozen reaction shots from the characters for Vegeta's "My Bulma!" power-up (and why does he spend a solid thirty seconds moaning and groaning beforehand)? In the original film, right after Bulma is slapped, Vegeta powers up and rushes Beerus, and we, the audience, are caught up in the spectacle. Obviously, 2015 Super padded this scene out (as it was wont to do), but you would think, come Super: Beerus, this padding would be excised, and we would get straight to the action, no need for reactions and interruptions - they're compressing BoG to, what, five episodes? The editing should be swift and precise to ensure that every detail needed to tell the story is preserved, and you would think, of course, that needless reaction shots would be the first to go. But as others have pointed out, Super: Beerus is seemingly (perhaps as a result of Daima's negative(?) reception) pandering to an audience who wants these long power-up scenes in place of character building and interaction - because Dragon Ball is all about the fighting, is it not? And, obviously, that necessitates the latter half of the episode looking completely washed out to sell how serious this all is. I mean, how would the audience know there was anything at stake without the desaturation?

Now, the Battle of Gods movie does not take place on a cruise ship, and it does include that now-non-canon "70%" line, but it's also, you know, fun to watch and full of charm, and that alone puts it far ahead of both the TV retellings. And, by the way, I don't quite get how any of this matches up to "Toriyama's vision"; he was the one who rewrote the BoG script to be more lighthearted and uplifting. When you cut most of those lighthearted moments out, you're really just left with a standard plot. That plot was shaped into a functioning story by way of the character it included - excising that only does it a disservice both to it and Toriyama's vision.

Also, Beerus still says he had to use ten percent of his true power to stop Vegeta, which implies he's only ten times stronger than an enraged SS2 Vegeta, and that still doesn't seem to fit with what's seen later on, but I don't care about powerscaling anyway. The real question is why there's such a noticeable jumpcut between Beerus flicking Vegeta and him saying that line. We needed a minute of powering up and screaming but we couldn't afford a second's worth of a pause between those?

Also-also, the music placement still isn't good. First Kikuchi Kai, then Boo Kai, then Super, then Daima, now this? Who are these sound designers that Toei is hiring? Is there a curse? Do they need an exorcist?

[Issei189]

Man, the Vegeta wars over if it's good or not that they removed the Vegeta humiliation ritual things are getting heavy.
And it's not just the English fanbase by the way. Somehow the algo started giving me stuff in Japanese and Spanish too. It's kinda sad how ridiculously fractured the fanbase has become.

It's strange to me that fans think this is Humiliation, but not Vegeta making fun of Andriod 18 for not being a real woman because she's a machine and then him brutally getting his arm broken a few moments later or Vegeta letting Cell become Perfect and getting one shotted. A portion of Vegeta fans think Vegeta is some badass because of his ego since the dubs changed the script, but Toriyama showed us that its Vegeta's ego which makes him a man child instead of a great warrior.

[dbs fanboy]

They better remaster the Future Trunks saga too because I want to see all the goofy filler removed and an even more serious tone. This remaster looks great.

It's a great remaster indeed! Why are the guys on a ship? Whose party is it? Why does Vegeta get angry over an accidental elbow? Why are there three kids who look like Pilaf, Mai, and Shu? Why isn't anyone from the original team speaking?

Don't forget about all the amazing visual changes when it comes to this episode, like the filter being so dark and seriouss™ it makes certain scenes look like flashbacks, said filter not even being consistent, as many scenes have normal bright shading, then suddenly, boom, darkness everywhere. Thousands of cuts so noticeable even a child would tell you something feels off, Bulma's scene of her shaking Beerus being completely off, as her movements don't match with her voice at all since they didn't bother to use new recordings even for scenes like this (same issue is also true when it comes to King Kai, this is something people had an issue with even in 2015 when the original was airing!) and amateurish animation and art mistakes, like Krillin missing his hand in a STILL FRAME in the first episode, or Gohan not looking directly at Oolong when talking to him.

I will admit, there are some things this "enhanced" version did better. The Goku vs Beerus fight is infinitely better here for example, but there are other, smaller elements even in this terrible episode, such as only Beerus hitting Mr. Satan instead of both him and Buu hitting him like in the original. But I expected something much better and professionally made, especially since they did have the time and budget this time around to come up with a good product.

Tbf, Buu hitting Satan was kinda out of character in the original, so from all the things that were removed, this one was actually good.

It was still jarring because the editing was just bad.

[DestructoDisc]

Tbf, Buu hitting Satan was kinda out of character in the original, so from all the things that were removed, this one was actually good.

It was still jarring because the editing was just bad.

Yeah, that's why I listed it as a change that I actually liked, because they didn't only pay attention here to the animation, but also to character writing. Changes like this are what I was hoping for this "enhanced" version to do more of, instead of putting a grey filter over the majority of the scenes .

[Caulifor]

I was fully on board after the first two episodes, but this one completely dropped the ball. The cuts were so severe that the story lost all coherence.

They missed three crucial beats: setting up Bulma's party, giving us slice-of-life moments with character reintroductions before Beerus arrives, and actually explaining why the Pilaf gang are kids. Rushing past all of that stripped away the charm and narrative logic. Huge disappointment. I hope this episode is the exception, not the rule.

[The Dark Knight]

They missed three crucial beats: setting up Bulma's party, giving us slice-of-life moments with character reintroductions before Beerus arrives, and actually explaining why the Pilaf gang are kids. Rushing past all of that stripped away the charm and narrative logic. Huge disappointment. I hope this episode is the exception, not the rule.

Why does a birthday party need set up ? it's pretty explanatory.

Why do we need "slice of life" moments with characters who add nothing to the story ? Battle of Gods is the story of Goku, Beerus, and Vegeta; everyone else is just background noise; the less time spent with them the better the flow of the story is.

They probably aren't explaining why they're kids because of how creepy the concept of Trunks being involved with Mai is. If anything, I think they want the viewers to just assume these are the kids of the original Pilaf gang.

[Sani007]

I want to make one thing clear from the start. I still think this version is better than the 2015 one, but only because that one was so ugly and poorly done. I wouldn't call this one beautiful either. For me, Broly and Daima are what good-looking Dragon Ball should look like. But at least this version is watchable now.

I was satisfied with the first two episodes. Not completely, but for the most part, yes. This episode, however, was absolutely awful. Key elements were cut out or rewritten. It's ridiculous that a theatrical movie can find the time for certain scenes, while a TV series apparently can't.

I'm also amazed that some people seem to think they know better than Toriyama himself what Dragon Ball should be like, considering he was the creator of the series and, as it happens, the screenwriter of Battle of Gods. If Toei thinks they know better than Toriyama when it comes to Dragon Ball, then they shouldn't be working from his screenplay in the first place, nor should they be promoting the series using his name.

I'll admit this episode has put me off the series, and even the prospect of the Moro anime. That said, this will still be my go-to version of the Super anime, simply because the original looks atrocious. But that doesn't make this version good either...

[Kenji]

They missed three crucial beats: setting up Bulma's party, giving us slice-of-life moments with character reintroductions before Beerus arrives, and actually explaining why the Pilaf gang are kids. Rushing past all of that stripped away the charm and narrative logic. Huge disappointment. I hope this episode is the exception, not the rule.

Why does a birthday party need set up ? it's pretty explanatory.

Why do we need "slice of life" moments with characters who add nothing to the story ? Battle of Gods is the story of Goku, Beerus, and Vegeta; everyone else is just background noise; the less time spent with them the better the flow of the story is.

They probably aren't explaining why they're kids because of how creepy the concept of Trunks being involved with Mai is. If anything, I think they want the viewers to just assume these are the kids of the original Pilaf gang.

You honestly think Dragon Ball lowering itself to being "The Goku and Vegeta Show: Even More than Usual" is a good thing?

On that topic, Battle of Gods is a reunion movie, meaning every character is important to the story.

[The Dark Knight]

You honestly think Dragon Ball lowering itself to being "The Goku and Vegeta Show: Even More than Usual" is a good thing?

Not at all, I just think that if you don't have anything meaningful for a character to do, then you shouldn't have them in the story for the sake of ticking a box on a list. The original Battle of Gods movie spent around 15 minutes of screen time with the Pilaf gang; did we really need to waste that much time on them ? Resurrection F spent valuable time on Gohan and the others fighting random goons, time that could've been spent developing Freeza further. If you are going to use these characters, then write a story that utilizes them in a meaningful way.