King Cold and his forms

[Dayspring]

There's also the fact that, according to the daizenshuu bio, Cold prefers to work from the shadows. With the exception of his personal subjects and his family, nobody knows Cold even exists. Even Ginyu's mentioned to have never heard of him. Meanwhile Freeza's the total opposite: he prefers the spotlight and the glory.

Seems like a match made in hell, to me.

Besides, should Cold ever try to re-establish his dominion, Freeza is not only more powerful, but capable of transforming two times more than he showed even daddy.

In light of that last fact, I wonder if that means Cold's PL is under 1 Mil (ie: less than Freeza's second stage PL)...

[Forgotten Hero]

I always thought Cold was stronger, I'm probably wrong huh?

[SSJ4FatGogeta]

It seems logical to me that they all begin in the first form and discover new forms, the same way Goku discovers new forms of Super Saiyan. This is why Cooler says he discovered a new fifth form/"fourth transformed state". By this logic, he must have gone through the first three forms/two transformations. We can infer from this, that Cold also experienced a first form, but is a show-off like Cooler. Until his humiliating defeat, Freeza is the only one who suppresses his ki by reverting back to his first form. (Although Cooler does suppress his ki by reverting to his fourth form!)

As for Cold's relative strength, in the dub they sense a power greater than Freeza's and then a power greater than that. While it is possible the first "stronger" power was Freeza himself now stronger than he once was, I always thought they meant Cold. (Trunks is obviously the strongest power sensed at the time.)

[Haseowolf]

It seems logical to me that they all begin in the first form and discover new forms, the same way Goku discovers new forms of Super Saiyan. This is why Cooler says he discovered a new fifth form/"fourth transformed state". By this logic, he must have gone through the first three forms/two transformations. We can infer from this, that Cold also experienced a first form, but is a show-off like Cooler. Until his humiliating defeat, Freeza is the only one who suppresses his ki by reverting back to his first form. (Although Cooler does suppress his ki by reverting to his fourth form!)

As for Cold's relative strength, in the dub they sense a power greater than Freeza's and then a power greater than that. While it is possible the first "stronger" power was Freeza himself now stronger than he once was, I always thought they meant Cold. (Trunks is obviously the strongest power sensed at the time.)

Actually, I believe for Freeza's case is that his fourth and final form are, for all intents and purposes, his true form. He had used the other transformations in reverse order to suppress his power output. So then Final Form Freeza is his base, while 3rd form is ki suppression form 1, then it goes down from there to suppress his ki further.

The BS with Cooler "discovering a fifth form" was Toei and their wild, yet illogical ideas. It seems like the Cold Clan would not actually transform in the way the Saiya-jin transform, escalating and ascending in forms when needed, instead using the forms in quite the opposite fashion.

[Herms]

As for Cold's relative strength, in the dub they sense a power greater than Freeza's and then a power greater than that. While it is possible the first "stronger" power was Freeza himself now stronger than he once was, I always thought they meant Cold. (Trunks is obviously the strongest power sensed at the time.)

The anime does imply that Cold's stronger than Freeza, but the manga implies it's the other way around. So it's another manga/anime discrepency.

[Rocketman]

Wait... how could the Z fighters sense Trunks if he's suppressing his power down to 5?

[Wojak]

Wait... how could the Z fighters sense Trunks if he's suppressing his power down to 5?

Maybe because of the area being a wasteland without life, thus making it easy to read the number of all lifeforms, even the weak ones?
Just speculating.

[Rocketman]

Wait... how could the Z fighters sense Trunks if he's suppressing his power down to 5?

Maybe because of the area being a wasteland without life, thus making it easy to read the number of all lifeforms, even the weak ones?
Just speculating.

But then they wouldn't be saying "Woahmg it's stronger than Freeza!"

[Herms]

The first time anyone senses Trunks' ki is when he takes out Freeza's mooks. Kuririn or somebody says that a big ki has appeared, and lots of little ki have vanished. Then Trunks goes Super Saiyan, and Gohan says that it's the same ki Goku had on Planet Namek (though like I've said before, I don't think he's talking about size). Nobody ever says he has a ki bigger than Freeza's, at least in the manga. The anime and/or dub might do it differently, though.

[Haseowolf]

Just another thing for explanation on Freeza and his family's ability to transform. I looked up the episode in which the reason for his transformations is displayed. Taken right from episode 77, Simmons-daimou subtitles:

Vegeta: Among the universe's races, there is a very small number that have the odd ability of changing their forms when needed -- whether for camouflage, or to conserve energy consumption when it's unnecessary.

Freeza: In my case, the reason is different. I have so much power, it's difficult for me to control it otherwise.

So, he actually has these forms to keep his power in check. I can only surmise the rest of his family is the same. They have a base form and use the lower forms to keep their power in check so they can go on their daily business without blowing up a city or a nearby moon or something.

[Xyex]

The BS with Cooler "discovering a fifth form" was Toei and their wild, yet illogical ideas. It seems like the Cold Clan would not actually transform in the way the Saiya-jin transform, escalating and ascending in forms when needed, instead using the forms in quite the opposite fashion.

Except for the fact that Toriyama not only signed off on Cooler's 5th form but designed it himself.

Plus there's the fact Cold's in the 2nd form but doesn't bother to transform after Trunks slices and dices Freeza. These two factors make me think that Toriyama forgot how Freeza's transformations were supposed to work. Which means it could easily be considered retconned, despite the lack of outright statements saying so.

Or, you could just say that Freeza was born in his 4th form, due to his level of power, while everyone else is typically born in the 1st form. Thus his lower forms would be, for him, nothing more than a means of supressing his power. Much like if Goku had been born as an SSJ3 but stayed in base most of the time. This also leaves open room for the acquisition of new forms, such as what Cooler achieved, and not having forms beyond the 2nd as with Cold. Cold had the power to reach the 2nd form but not the power to transform beyond it.

Or, as I suggested in the Cooler thread, Cooler just figure out a way to reverse-design the forms so that, instead of creating a form with a supressed level of power, he created one with an enhanced level of power to better contain his full strength (instead of just getting big musscles like Freeza did). Of course, this does nothing to explain Cold's lack of 3rd or 4th forms. So I like the idea that Freeza was either just talking big "I'm so strong I have to transform to hold back power!" or he was simply born 4th form as an abberation.

[mAcChaos]

They all start in their "final" forms. Those are their natural forms. Then because they're so powerful and going at 100% all the time is exhausting, they made smaller forms, weaker forms, to contain their power.

The fact that Cold didn't transform when Trunks killed Freeza makes me think Cold was stronger, so he thought he could probably take Trunks if he transformed. But Trunks never let Freeza power up or let Cold prepare.

[Xyex]

The fact that Cold didn't transform when Trunks killed Freeza makes me think Cold was stronger, so he thought he could probably take Trunks if he transformed. But Trunks never let Freeza power up or let Cold prepare.

Cold hand plenty of time to transform.

[Kaboom]

I find it easiest to go with the "4th form is the true one, others hold it back, and Cooler's was something extra" idea, and ignore Toei's (and apparently, to some other extent, Toriyama's) little screw-ups. It works SO much easier that way both visually and practically, and yields so much less of a headache trying to figure it out.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Cold hand plenty of time to transform.

Not necessarily, Freeza took quite a while to transform to his final/original form. The only exception was Kuriza and that was in a gag manga. King Cold could have just reasoned that it was too late and that his sword approach would fair better then figuring out a way to buy time or look for a window of opportunity to transform.

[Bussani]

The first time anyone senses Trunks' ki is when he takes out Freeza's mooks. Kuririn or somebody says that a big ki has appeared, and lots of little ki have vanished. Then Trunks goes Super Saiyan, and Gohan says that it's the same ki Goku had on Planet Namek (though like I've said before, I don't think he's talking about size). Nobody ever says he has a ki bigger than Freeza's, at least in the manga. The anime and/or dub might do it differently, though.

This is the case. Trunks' power level was only 5 when they scanned him, but as soon as he attacked it must have risen. That's what's special about the Earth fighters, they can make their ki spike very quickly to perform surprise attacks.

Freeza, Cold and Cooler's transformations make sense to me, maybe because I've been watching a lot of Hunter x Hunter lately. In this manga/anime the characters can have their 'Nen' (ki) pathways opened to release their full aura, but if they haven't learned to control its flow yet it will just flow away and they'll quickly become exhausted.

As Freeza is someone that can't even sense ki, and once he reaches his full power he quickly peaks and begins losing strength, prompting Goku to quit the fight, it makes some sense that he'd create forms that limit how much power he releases. If he was like the humans and could control his ki freely, he probably wouldn't need them. Maybe in his Mecha form he can control how much he releases better too.

[Horgus]

I really hate the way they essentially redesigned Freeza and then kill him off immediately.

I love that scene when Freeza hallucinates Goku's image being on Earth, and he goes batshit with rage.

Freeza went from being arrogant and haughty to going near psychotic with rage.

I would have loved seeing Freeza and Goku have it out one last time instead of Trunks slicing him up.

[Captain Awesome]

I really hate the way they essentially redesigned Freeza and then kill him off immediately.

I think Toriyama had to, there is no big break with a lame villain in the manga, another Freeza fight would have been incredibly boring.

[Rocketman]

I really hate the way they essentially redesigned Freeza and then kill him off immediately.

I think Toriyama had to, there is no big break with a lame villain in the manga, another Freeza fight would have been incredibly boring.

Obviously, the better thing would be to have Goku kill Freeza on Namek, then King Kold goes to Earth to get revenge for his son's death.

[Bussani]

I really hate the way they essentially redesigned Freeza and then kill him off immediately.

I love that scene when Freeza hallucinates Goku's image being on Earth, and he goes batshit with rage.

Freeza went from being arrogant and haughty to going near psychotic with rage.

I would have loved seeing Freeza and Goku have it out one last time instead of Trunks slicing him up.

I think that was the whole point. They spent like 50 episodes building up that Freeza was this super strong, unbeatable villain, then someone appears and takes him out in seconds. That really says something about Trunks at that point. It was a surprise to the audience/reader at the time, who had had it drilled into their head that Freeza was ridiculously strong.

Personally, I love it. Freeza lasted long enough, to be taken out in such an unexpected way was pretty good writing in my opinion.

Edit:

Obviously, the better thing would be to have Goku kill Freeza on Namek, then King Kold goes to Earth to get revenge for his son's death.

You really think so? I think the way it is was one of the best parts of the whole series. (Edit 2: It's too bad Trunks becomes pretty hopeless and unhelpful after that >_>).