Episode #0155 (14 December 2008)

Bura · Post by **Bura** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:57 pm

I listened to it completely now, nice podcast! By the way, I'd like a recap of the manga even though I know what happens... I just love the story!

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:38 pm

Well, I figured I should at least put up my thoughts on whether or not the reviews should stay. I think in order to have the Manga Reviews so you guys don't have to have a recap beforehand, you'd have to be pretty specific in your discussions. For example, near the beginning of the discussion you guys mention how badass Vegeta's become, but it's not until I listen to the entire discussion that I start to piece together your points on why you think he's become such. So, if you don't wanna have a recap, then you better damn well be specific when explaining things in the discussion section. I wouldn't mind this kind of format.

Otherwise, you could just provide a short recap. Maybe a handful (ten tops?) of significant plot points before you get into the discussion. I know it's hard to cut down recaps especially for a show (or I guess in this case manga) that you're really into, but well... a chapter by chapter recap was just too much for me. At most, while you guys would recap in previous episodes, I'd just go on autopilot mode for a while until you guys got to the discussion part. I think one of the only reasons I liked those recaps was because of Jeff's occasional flubs. You gotta love "Kintaroon"

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NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:01 pm

Personally I dislike the recaps. I know the story already and hearing it recited is fairly boring.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:46 pm

I found the discussion a little confusing at first, but eventually I began to remember the events of the chapters. I think a recap would be good, but perhaps a short one? Just a couple key points per chapter?

ssjcj · Post by **ssjcj** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:59 pm

Woo! My email got read out, thanks Mike.

VenomSymbiote · Post by **VenomSymbiote** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:35 pm

Great Podcast, guys.

Mike, I'm glad that you are keeping somewhat of an open mind to the movie. Most of the people I meet almost always have the same opinion of the movie, that it sucks, that it's going to be terrible, etc. I don't come across enough people who are willing to give it a chance. Please continue to keep an open mind, at least until you've seen the movie.

As far as the Manga Review Of Awesomeness, I would really like it if you kept the recaps. I'm sure there are some people who don't have the manga (such as myself), or seen the episodes that relate to the volume, and it is much easier to evaluate the discussion when you "visualize" the events that have occured in the volume, rather than trying to put the pieces together.

All in all though, great episode.

nimerjm · Post by **nimerjm** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:27 am

Another week, another great show. Keep it up!

As far as the recap portion of the manga review, I really hope you keep it. I realize its time-consuming and most listeners have the plot memorized, but the segment feels incomplete without it. Fifty percent of my enjoyment of the bit is the recap; it brings new listeners/fans up to speed and let's face it - the manga is just so damn good that hearing it again is a true pleasure.

I suppose shortening the recap might work as well, but please don't scrap it altogether. It was only a few weeks ago that a poster here revealed that due to a health condition, he/she was never able to read the manga for him/herself.

... and thanks again for the heads-up on Maximum the Hormone. I haven't listened to much over the past two weeks that wasn't either Tsume, Tsume, Tsume or Buiiki Kaesu.

Dogasu · Post by **Dogasu** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:45 am

Put me in with the people who want a recap. While I've seen the anime version of these events, I'm not the kind of person who can be like "Volume 22 covers this and this and this but not this." Some context would be greatly appreciated.

As far as the Dragonball movie...I really think a decent live action adaptation *is* possible; it just requires the right mix of people. Like Mike said, this movie doesn't even come close to having that right mix. A lot of people who defend the movie say that certain things have to be changed in the adaptation process, but I would argue that things like that are only true up to a point. Things like the lack of Oolong and the flying cloud are understandable because things like that would be difficult to include without looking completely ridiculous. Same with, say, Kame Sen'nin not having a big ol' turtle shell on his back. But there's no reason they couldn't have made Justin Chatwin's Goku act more like Goku instead of generic self-doubting action movie guy. There's no reason they couldn't have made the Dragonballs the product of Piccolo's good half. There's no reason they had to include a sidekick villain from the Pilaf saga and make her a shapeshiter. Etc, etc.

I totally forgot about the "baddest dude in the galaxy" (universe?) line from the Season 1 dub. Gotta love mid-90s dubbing.

Finally...I don't really see what's so strange about "romper room." Yeah, it's not used so much in our daily vernacular, but if you look up preschools or daycare centers in your local phone book, I'm sure you'll be able to find at least *one* establishment that uses the words in its name.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:56 pm

Dogasu wrote:But there's no reason they couldn't have made Justin Chatwin's Goku act more like Goku instead of generic self-doubting action movie guy.

This has yet to be substantiated. I am not saying he wasn't changed into this, but until I see more then three lines of dialogue and scenes that aren't just fighting, I will reserve my call.

nimerjm · Post by **nimerjm** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:21 pm

The "Romper Room" debate is a mystery to me, especially considering that Mike and Meri are from New Jersey (I believe that I read that on here somewhere).

So if Mike and Meri are from N.J. and Mike said a few weeks ago that he was 26, then the mystery is how they HAVEN'T heard of Romper Room. I'm 28 and grew up in Connecticut, and Romper Room was on every weekday at 2 and 4 on a local station... one that no doubt shared a programming schedule with the three states in the tri-state area, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, much like they still do today.

When I saw Romper Room in the special, no warning bells went off - I guess I just assumed that Romper Room was as well-known as other shows popular at the time: Today's Special, Bozo the Clown (out of Chicago), Sesame Street...

So... same geographical area, almost the same age (could 2 years make that big of a difference?), OBVIOUSLY the same interests.... yet there is a complete blackout on the Romper Room television program?

Next you'll tell me you don't remember Belle & Sebastian, the Wuzzles or the Lost City of Gold...

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:28 pm

I don't understand the confusion over "Romper Room". We do in fact know what it is (as Meri mentioned even having a special birthday announcement on the show). Personally, we all brought it up during the review of the new special because that's not what's actually said in the dialogue, so we found it important to bring up.

I think our e-mailer was simply saying that they're too old to remember the show, as opposed to (I'm assuming, here) a good number of our listeners, who would be too young to know it.

I'm not originally from Jersey, by the way

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nimerjm · Post by **nimerjm** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:35 pm

Oop... I completely forgot that Miss Molly read Meri's name. A few kids I went to elementary school with shared the honor, and were treated like rock stars for it.

Looks like I'll be re-listening to the the episode about the special, as now I'm intrigued to what the dialogue was actually supposed to be.

...and please keep the recap. I missed it a lot more than I thought I would.

Dogasu · Post by **Dogasu** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:26 pm

omegacwa wrote:This has yet to be substantiated. I am not saying he wasn't changed into this, but until I see more then three lines of dialogue and scenes that aren't just fighting, I will reserve my call.

Fair enough. But at the same time, when all we're being shown is Goku being decidedly un-Goku like, it's easy to see why those assumptions are being made. First impressions count for a lot.

tinlunlau · Post by **tinlunlau** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:15 am

Finally heard the post. It's been quite a long day for me. I've been at the Jay Chou concert in Toronto tonight. But anyway, I'm surprised to hear my name mentioned. And yes, Mike, you said my name right. However, it is technically supposed to be "Lau Tin-Lun".

As for the live action movie, I still think it's possible but only if Stephen Chow had more control in this production. I'm sure he would've got the right people for the job as I am well aware that Stephen Chow is a huge manga fan and has a lot of manga stored in his Hong Kong office. Longtime Chow collaborator Jeff Lau (aka Lau Chun-Wai) would've been perfect for a live action Dragonball movie. If you've seen his "Chinese Odyssey" (which is based on "Journey to the West") films, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:13 am

I finally got a chance to listen to the podcast and I have to say I enjoy this episode. Going straight into a discussion on the volume at hand is fine with me, but I always enjoy listening to your summaries of the chapters. It's no big deal, as I am fine either way (I can always grab my manga off of my shelf). As for the romper room translation, I would say that Mr. Anthony Carl Kimm is either old, or he just wanted to confuse people for the hell of it. When I read that line during the Jump special, I thought it sounded rather strange.

I really would like to see the new live action Dragon Ball: Evolution movie just to find out if any of the quirky humor from early on in the series was kept. I do think that Chatwin makes an awful Goku from what I have seen so far, but he probably won't be as bad as that Boston kid from Forbidden Kingdom.

Also, is there any word on Herms or Julian snatching up Jump special DVDs in bulk? I would love to get my hands on one.

Son Wukong · Post by **Son Wukong** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:59 am

Bura wrote: Oh, and of course I'm so happy that we dutch fans get the Kanzenban. I think I will rebuy the entire manga for this better release. It's been a long time to collect all the current ones I have now... One volume appeared every month for years, and like you guys already mentioned they were cut in half so technically we got one volume per two months. I've been collecting the manga since I was a kid basically. XD

I have the Dutch manga from Glenat for a VERY long time on my ''to own list'' and I couldn't be any happier than to hear they are bringing the kanzenban over here. I hope these are also uncensored etc. but we'll just have to wait and see. Also, I hope that it won't take them 6/7 years to publish this because I would be near my thirties still waiting for something that I could easily get in English or by that time I will probably have my Japanese embellished so much that I could get the Japanese manga instead.

EDIT:
Oh by the way, about the the new perspective of reviewing the manga.
I actually have no problem with you guys jumping straight into a scene and discussing it. I know the story like the back of my hand and I can follow just fine with the discussion. But I can imagine that a novice would have some moments where he/she could get lost among the podcast-action.

Dogasu · Post by **Dogasu** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:01 am

Yi Xing Long wrote:Also, is there any word on Herms or Julian snatching up Jump special DVDs in bulk? I would love to get my hands on one.

I'm in Japan too

The magazine goes on sale this week, right?

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:04 pm

Right, sorry for this late post, but I just wanted to include my thoughts on the episode outside of my manga outline preference.

First off, lemme say that Vanessa Williams is awesome. I listened to "Save the Best for Last" right after Mike mentioned it. I mean "Sometimes the sun goes 'round the moon"? Friggin' genius

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On the note about having to keep track of so many characters, I'm curious as to what tips you (or I guess Jeff) off about who to follow more closely. I mean sure, it's kinda obvious that the Nameks that died don't have to be followed, but what about other characters like Appule? For all Jeff knows, he could end up leading some kind of mass rebellion behind Freeza's back.

As for the drawing style, I gotta agree there. At this point in the story, Toriyama's finally gotten out of the smooth corner style drawing and has taken more to a pointier style. This especially makes guys like Vegeta and Dodoria that much more awesome. I actually never knew how much I enjoyed Dodoria's part in the story until I re-read the manga. His whole bit with chasing Kuririn and Gohan only to be stopped by the Taiyoken was cool stuffs. I also remember how they had Dodoria have a pretty cool-looking "afterimage-ish" technique while he tormented one of the Namek villagers. I'm pretty sure it was the same episode that changed who killed Cargo. Dunno why, but I really like it when the anime goes ahead and makes changes or adds little things that are different from the manga... and it works (unlike some filler).

On a sidenote about the scene when Dodoria chases Kuririn and Gohan, though... what's up with Kuririn saying "Here goes Zippo" as he passes Dende to Gohan? I'm guessing it's along the same lines as "Romper Room is over" and I'm just too young to get the reference? I remember checking for the line in the Viz Big version and seeing it changed to something like "Here ya go." It's just a line I've remembered because it's stuck whenever I'd go back and read the volume.

One thing I really enjoyed about this volume (and start of the arc in general) was all the sneaking around. There'd be stuff like manipulating your ki so you can't be found that I just find really interesting. The scene when Vegeta is so sure that he found the Earthlings only to see that big swamp creature thing burst out of the water was a good example of that. There's also the thing you guys brought up about keeping track of who actually knows of the other's existence that's gonna be really interesting to see especially in the next volume.

"I have all the knowledge, Jeff... and you have none!" Hehe, I love it when Mike just completely shafts Jeff and his lack of DB knowings. It's stuff like that that makes the episode so much more enjoyable.

One small bit I hoped you guys would cover but didn't was Tenshinhan's little inner dialogue about learning new techniques from Kaio and then giving a new spin to them so he can be of some help. I remember this being brought up in that one topic explaining how Toriyama could have been planning on Tenshinhan to be so much more but ultimately just dropping him altogether. Do you guys think his inner monologue in this volume was because just so it'd be that much more funny when Kaio asks them to make him laugh, or do you think he meant for it to be a setup for later in the story?

sailorspazz · Post by **sailorspazz** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:27 pm

I seem to have the same sort of attitude about the live-action movie as Mike does. I like the idea of it, and I want it to be good, but what we've seen so far (especially the trailer) just screams "generic action movie", not Dragonball. Most anime fans' reactions to American adaptations are instantly negative, and they all immediately start bitching about how it's going to be screwed up (like all of the Death Note fangirls deciding that Zac Efron will be cast as Light because he looks sorta like him, and then complaining about how he's going to suck

Don't even want to touch the Keanu Reeves playing Spike Spiegel in Cowboy Bebop bitchfest....) I like to give the adaptations a chance, and actually watch them before proclaiming them the Worst. Movie. Ever. I've been open-minded about Dragonball: Evolution, and I'm still going to go watch it, but unfortunately I don't think it will live up to what it could have been if they had been more faithful to the source material.

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:32 pm

Mystery of the lake... solved