The view of Dragonball in general anime culture

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:26 pm

Like people have said, Dragon Ball is often looked down on in the mainstream anime community. It's like, "You still like Dragon Ball Z? That's so old. Only people first getting in to anime like that."

They prefer their 'mature' and 'hard core' stuff instead. It's pretty silly just how quickly they look down their noses at Dragon Ball, most of them having never seen much more than a few episodes on TV I'm guessing.

KKZ · Post by **KKZ** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:27 am

I wouldn't even mind people dogging Dragon Ball if they actually came up with valid, shit, even original flaws for it. But no, it's always "OM FGFM DEY STND ARND FRO TEN EPISODS TALKING AND STUPID HAIR STUPDI"

I also hate it when people make it a point to describe how stupid the show is by saying "A guy and this other dude who is green and shoots lasers, oh my god so gay and stupid." How this is any more stupid or ridiculous than any other cartoon ever made I'll never know.

B · Post by B » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:43 pm

KKZ wrote:I wouldn't even mind people dogging Dragon Ball if they actually came up with valid, shit, even original flaws for it. But no, it's always "OM FGFM DEY STND ARND FRO TEN EPISODS TALKING AND STUPID HAIR STUPDI"

That's what they do, though. You can't really blame someone who hasn't seen the manga.

xzero · Post by **xzero** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:35 pm

I love the inconsistent criticisms of Dragonball. Some people say that there's too much standing around and talking. Others say that there is too much "laser" fighting going on. I'll admit that there tends to be a lot of dialoge in some scenes, though I don't necessarily think that it's a bad thing. The fighting is sort of the how-to guide for over-the-top anime fights. Just ask Yu Yu Hakusho, Naruto, Bleach, etc. Honestly, most shonen shows clearly have some similarities with DBZ because it's part of the genre. Even things like Prince of Tennis take the over-the-top fighting style and place it on a tennis court. They're all basically the same thing, and DBZ, if not the definitive pioneer, is the definitive "Shonen for Idiots" guidebook on how to make a shonen series.

sbk · Post by **sbk** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:45 pm

Bussani wrote:They prefer their 'mature' and 'hard core' stuff instead. It's pretty silly just how quickly they look down their noses at Dragon Ball, most of them having never seen much more than a few episodes on TV I'm guessing.

Well before I started watching other anime I really thought that too, but I can´t say the criticism is fully unwarranted. I don´t really think it has to do with the fact that dbz isn´t "hardcore" or "mature". Dbz just really pales in comparison with some other anime. (imo anyway)

I really like Db/dbz though (or else I wouldn´t be here LOL), and it got me into other anime in the first place.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:50 pm

sbk wrote:
Bussani wrote:They prefer their 'mature' and 'hard core' stuff instead. It's pretty silly just how quickly they look down their noses at Dragon Ball, most of them having never seen much more than a few episodes on TV I'm guessing.
Well before I started watching other anime I really thought that too, but I can´t say the criticism is fully unwarranted. I don´t really think it has to do with the fact that dbz isn´t "hardcore" or "mature". Dbz just really pales in comparison with some other anime. (imo anyway)

I really like Db/dbz though (or else I wouldn´t be here LOL), and it got me into other anime in the first place.

Dragon Ball isn't hardcore or mature really, but it doesn't have to be to be good. I wouldn't say it pales in comparison personally. I see it as being a lot better than a lot of the modern generic anime we see. But that's just my opinion too.

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:54 pm

Bussani wrote:Dragon Ball isn't hardcore or mature really, but it doesn't have to be to be good. I wouldn't say it pales in comparison personally. I see it as being a lot better than a lot of the modern generic anime we see. But that's just my opinion too.

I have to agree here. I cannot stand most modern anime, and thus I mainly watch anime from the 80's/90's.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:57 pm

Yi Xing Long wrote:
Bussani wrote:Dragon Ball isn't hardcore or mature really, but it doesn't have to be to be good. I wouldn't say it pales in comparison personally. I see it as being a lot better than a lot of the modern generic anime we see. But that's just my opinion too.
I have to agree here. I cannot stand most modern anime, and thus I mainly watch anime from the 80's/90's.

Same. Though I'm a big fan of 80s media in general, so most of my favorite anime are from that time period. The 90s had some good ones too.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:29 am

Yi Xing Long wrote:
Bussani wrote:Dragon Ball isn't hardcore or mature really, but it doesn't have to be to be good. I wouldn't say it pales in comparison personally. I see it as being a lot better than a lot of the modern generic anime we see. But that's just my opinion too.
I have to agree here. I cannot stand most modern anime, and thus I mainly watch anime from the 80's/90's.

Couldn't agree more, other than saying 70s and back has some awesome gems.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:20 am

I've seen it described as a Video game series similar to Street fighter, with a long running cartoon adaptation.

By anime fans.

Haseowolf · Post by **Haseowolf** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:29 pm

Bejiita wrote: @forgotten hero, just wanted to say that you can't really call it the Japanese dub as it isn't a dub if it's in its original language.

Actually, a dub is any sort of recorded voices for film/television be it original or replaced for another language.

Sorry, had to get that out there.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:48 pm

Haseowolf wrote:
Bejiita wrote: @forgotten hero, just wanted to say that you can't really call it the Japanese dub as it isn't a dub if it's in its original language.
Actually, a dub is any sort of recorded voices for film/television be it original or replaced for another language.

Sorry, had to get that out there.

It's an annoying bit of literal bull, like laughing at people whenever they use the word "peruse". As far as the television and film industries go, guess what? Dubbing is putting a voice over the originals. It simply doesn't apply that way here.

Haseowolf · Post by **Haseowolf** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:45 pm

From what I can see, the general consensus is of a higher opinion than recent years. At my most recent anime convention, there were a number of Dragon Ball cosplayers and no jokes or insults were made at their fandom.

Even if most American Dragon Ball fans know only of the dub, new products coming out like the special and refresh series are sure to catch the eyes of said fans and new anime fans a like who can have new Dragon Ball material via the internet and either get a look at the Japanese version through raws or fansubs, or get a look at it through fresh eyes.

falconsedge · Post by **falconsedge** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:57 pm

@Dr. Casey
I can respect the fact you don't like the dub. I for one enjoy the dub (the FUNimation dub...yeah you heard me right) and the original Japanese version as well. However if you just get right to it, Dragonball Z wouldn't be nearly as popular here in the states if there would have been no dub version. Hate it as much as you want and call it the "fake version" but at least appreciate what it did for the series as a whole.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:41 pm

falconsedge wrote:@Dr. Casey
I can respect the fact you don't like the dub. I for one enjoy the dub (the FUNimation dub...yeah you heard me right) and the original Japanese version as well. However if you just get right to it, Dragonball Z wouldn't be nearly as popular here in the states if there would have been no dub version. Hate it as much as you want and call it the "fake version" but at least appreciate what it did for the series as a whole.

I can appreciate that it brought the series to English audiences, but you'll have to appreciate that it brought it as pro-wrestling-in-space with 'three eyed cowboys', 'cargo planes' and 'brilliant scientists', and Funi has done everything it can to keep this appearance up. Dragon Ball is the butt of all shonen jokes, and the first and foremost example of mindless violent anime in the western world because of Funimation.

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:53 pm

desirecampbell wrote:
falconsedge wrote:@Dr. Casey
I can respect the fact you don't like the dub. I for one enjoy the dub (the FUNimation dub...yeah you heard me right) and the original Japanese version as well. However if you just get right to it, Dragonball Z wouldn't be nearly as popular here in the states if there would have been no dub version. Hate it as much as you want and call it the "fake version" but at least appreciate what it did for the series as a whole.
I can appreciate that it brought the series to English audiences, but you'll have to appreciate that it brought it as pro-wrestling-in-space with 'three eyed cowboys', 'cargo planes' and 'brilliant scientists', and Funi has done everything it can to keep this appearance up. Dragon Ball is the butt of all shonen jokes, and the first and foremost example of mindless violent anime in the western world because of Funimation.

Campbell's right. All FUNimation really did was cause a split in the fanbase. Had FUNimation not gotten the series another company would have, and it probably would have gotten a faithful dub. Dragon Ball wasn't some obscure show before FUNi dubbed it, it was already a hit all over the world. At some point some other company would have acquired the rights to the show.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:01 pm

They do seem to be taking some efforts to correct those mistakes in their more recent releases, but it's a bit too little, too late.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:11 am

caejones wrote:I don't mind the term Hyperbolic Time Chamber. It's way the heck easier to say than "room of spirit and time" (Though I kinda like RoSaT simply because Jaws pronounces it "Rho Sah Tee" ).

Not to be rude here, caejones, but just out of curiosity: are you blind? I don’t think I’ve ever come across a blind Dragon Ball fan before (well, there was that Budokai-playing kid on that news segment a while back, but they didn’t focus too much on his animé fandom haha). If so, what is Dragon Ball like for you? And how does a forum like this one work in JAWS, with all of the Japanese names and abbreviations and such? As a web designer, I would love to be able to mark up things like “RoSaT” so that they read correctly in screen readers, but since this board disallows HTML, my options are kind of limited.

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:It's an annoying bit of literal bull, like laughing at people whenever they use the word "peruse". As far as the television and film industries go, guess what? Dubbing is putting a voice over the originals. It simply doesn't apply that way here.

It does apply, though. “Dubbing” can mean many different things; among them, recording both the original soundtrack as well as a localized version. Forgotten Hero employed a legitimate use of the word, therefore attempting to “correct” its usage is itself incorrect. Personally I think that’s more annoying than calling it a “dub” instead of a “version”, when the distinction doesn’t even need to be made, since everyone here already knows that DB was recorded in Japanese first.

Also, use of the word “peruse” by itself is not really grounds for ridicule, but rather when it’s used in a way that demonstrates a misunderstanding of what the word actually means; autantonymously, in most cases, suggesting “to look over quickly” rather than its actual definition: “to look over meticulously”.

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:27 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:They do seem to be taking some efforts to correct those mistakes in their more recent releases, but it's a bit too little, too late.

I agree. Before it almost seemed as if they were denying a Japanese version existed (changing the music, stupid changes to the script, etc.), but now we get dubbed themes and the option of dub w/ BGM, and it's just like..."why couldn't you do this from the beginning?"

B · Post by B » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:47 am

I've decided I'll hold out for one more DBZ release for the next few years or so. If it doesn't come, or it does and it's the same old problems, then I just give up.

It really makes no sense to me out of the 60-some odd shows they have, Dragon Ball Z translated/dubbed themes of CHA LA, WE GOTTA POWER, ZENKAI, and We Were Angels.

Pick a show, any show! If it's not Dragon Ball Z, FUNimation put some real effort into it! Even Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT got some love!