DB Super Exciting Guide: Story

Post by **Herms** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:41 pm

omae no kaasan wrote:Nonono. I wrote it like that so it would be read like that since I can't do furigana. I'd do the same for any character intended to be read differently, I wasn't trying to dumb it down. But I'm glad you asked to clarify that.

Ah, OK. In some of the recent video games they've gone with just writing the "super" in "Super Saiyan" out in katakana, so that's what made me curious.

They say it's based on data supervised by Toriyama. However they do not say exactly what that data is.

Is it something Toriyama made for this book?

Or are they being ambiguous on purpose when they really mean, the comic?

Well, if they meant the manga, why would they only use the phrase "data supervised by Toriyama" for this one thing (assuming it is only used for this one thing)? I mean, the whole book's based on the manga, so if they thought basing something on the manga was enough qualification for the "look! Toriyama-approved!" stamp of approval, why wouldn't they use that stamp on everything?

But don't take my cynical word on commercial Japanese society for it:

孫悟空の勝利は、地道ですまじい修業の成果だった！鳥山先生監修のデータをもとに、悟空の成長を解析するぞ。

Interesting. The text from Shueisha's website on the training section goes:

鳥山明先生監修の修行データで、孫悟空の成長を完全解析！

Almost exactly the same, except it makes it sound like the book contains the Toriyama-supervised data itself, rather than something based on it.

edit: Looks like the second quote is also on the cover of the book too, or at least the obi wrap.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:47 pm

SUPA EXCITING DORAGON BORU SUPER GUIDE!

Thanks, glad to see an interview with Toriyama.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:55 am

Haha, I'd like to be friends with Gohan the most aswell.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:45 am

Well, if they meant the manga, why would they only use the phrase "data supervised by Toriyama" for this one thing (assuming it is only used for this one thing)? I mean, the whole book's based on the manga, so if they thought basing something on the manga was enough qualification for the "look! Toriyama-approved!" stamp of approval, why wouldn't they use that stamp on everything?

Because they know DB fans. Simple.

If they just presented the stars or charts, fans would cry bullshit. So they need to justify it.

Even the quote you provided is strangely ambiguous. What data specifically? Nowhere does it state he wrote that information specifically for this book. And in Japanese society whenever they can take advantage of a situation where he did in fact sit down write the information, it would be a huge deal. I mean, the man draws a picture of a half-deaf singer and it's a segment on the freaking morning news. Whereas by just calling it 'data' that he provided as a 'supervisor', well that could mean any number of things. The book itself saying it's 'based' on data he provided rather than it IS the data he provided. I would question then, why not simply present that information he provided, rather than 'base' something on it?

I realize it's a cynical view and I'm not saying that it's correct. I simply know the smell of fresh Japanese bullshit in the morning which usually wafts up when they start dancing around things instead of saying them directly.

Take it or leave it, that's my two cents on it ^_^;

Happy to answer any other questions or clarify anything else in the meantime. But for now back to checking to see how many times Oda forgot to draw Nami's earrings in Volume 47.

Oh, totally unrelated but Oda gave a shoutout to DB with his 519th chapter of OP by adding toner to the cover page. So for all you trivia fans there's another one for the pile.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:18 pm

When I arrived home about 15 minutes ago, I had a package at my door. So, I snapped a few quick shots before I start tearing (not literally) this guide apart. Be sure to check Kanzentai later today for some possible scans and whatnot. Oh, you'll have to excuse the quality of my camera phone. Anyway, here's what we've got.

"The package."

Sweet, U.S. customs opened my package. I hope they enjoyed it!

So... Amazon Japan included a total of 14 fliers for Amazon Gold. Not just that, they were the exact same flier. Hello trash can!

The guides arrived in one piece, which is always nice to see.

A close up!

The insert poster! On the back of the poster is a faded version of the front side, though with names for all the characters.

I will mention that as also, there are a plethora of promotional items inserted in the guide. Such as: DragonBall Kai, DragonBall Evolution, Shueisha shop items for sale, and ironically, the guide itself.

Now, where's my scanner?!

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:21 pm

That's a pretty sweet poster.

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:23 pm

That poster looks amaaaaaazing.

It's like the other one with all the characters on it... but all drawn by Toriyama!

This has probably been answered prior to this question being asked, but what is the extra one for?

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:44 pm

The Tori-bot wrote:This has probably been answered prior to this question being asked, but what is the extra one for?

I honest to God accidentally ordered two. So, I don't know if I'm sending it to Herms, or maybe a contest, or I just have two copies. Apparently Mike and Corey want me to send it one of them, but I'll give Herms first dibs, or the newly re-surfaced DBW.

B · Post by B » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:18 pm

Haha, that's odd. It may the camera phone quality, but I don't see Vegeta anywhere in that poster. He's arguably the second most popular character.

Krakabeast · Post by **Krakabeast** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:20 pm

Hujio wrote:
The Tori-bot wrote:This has probably been answered prior to this question being asked, but what is the extra one for?
I honest to God accidentally ordered two. So, I don't know if I'm sending it to Herms, or maybe a contest, or I just have two copies. Apparently Mike and Corey want me to send it one of them, but I'll give Herms first dibs, or the newly re-surfaced DBW.

Is it near the size of a Daizenshuu?

Post by **Herms** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:36 pm

B wrote:Haha, that's odd. It may the camera phone quality, but I don't see Vegeta anywhere in that poster. He's arguably the second most popular character.

Looks like he's next to Trunks, but is cut off. Is there a second half to that image that folds out?

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:15 pm

It's all pretty sweet looking but I don't see Pic anywhere either- I hope it folds out a little more < <

We'll be wating patiently for more info from the book ^^

Post by **Herms** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:21 pm

Daimao's up at the top, to the right of Freeza and just to the left of No.17.

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:23 pm

Krakabeast wrote:Is it near the size of a Daizenshuu?

No, it's much smaller. For reference, it's the exact same size the GT Perfect Files, in both size and page count.

Krakabeast · Post by **Krakabeast** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:31 pm

Hujio wrote:
Krakabeast wrote:Is it near the size of a Daizenshuu?
No, it's much smaller. For reference, it's the exact same size the GT Perfect Files, in both size and page count.

Oh....somewhat interesting that several years later when Dragon Ball is still popular, no company has decided to make a Dragon Ball Bible. Imagine the Daizenshuu wrapped into a one book.

*sigh*

One can only dream.

Anyway, Daizenshuu 10's poster still tops most.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:31 pm

Herms wrote:Daimao's up at the top, to the right of Freeza and just to the left of No.17.

I saw Daimaou, I was referring to Ma Juniaa. I always specify Daimaou when referring to the old man.

vershiris · Post by **vershiris** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:00 pm

Thank you! thats an awsome interview

YouTube · Post by **Hujio** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:46 pm

Velasa wrote:I saw Daimaou, I was referring to Ma Juniaa. I always specify Daimaou when referring to the old man.

Unfortunately, Piccolo (Ma Junior) isn't on the poster. Vegeta isn't either, though you can barely see him standing next to Trunks.

The poster itself is titled "DragonBall Super Characters." The back of the poster is actually broken up into 4 groups, with each being highlighted with a different color. So here's everyone that's on the poster, in no particular order.

Freeza and his followers:
Freeza
Mecha Freeza
King Cold
Zarbon
Dodoria
Ginyu
Jisu
Baata
Rikuum
Gurudo
Kui
Nappa
Raditz
Followers (foot soldiers)

Piccolo Daimao and his followers:
Piccolo Daimao
Piano
Tambourine
Drum
Cymbal

Dr. Gero's followers:
Artificial Human No. 17
Artificial Human No. 18
Artificial Human No. 16
Cell Junior

Son Goku's friends (nakama):
Son Goku
Bulma
Son Gohan (grandfather)
Oolong
Chaozu
Puar
Lunch
Chi Chi
Gyuumao
Tenshinhan
Yajirobe
Snow
Kame-sennin
Umigame
Mutaito
Artificial Human No. 8
Upa
Bora
Uranai Baba
Bulma's Mom
Dr. Brief
Future Trunks
Chibi Trunks
Son Goten
Great Saiyaman
Videl
Mister Satan
Pan
Marron (Krillin's daughter)
Majin Buu
Gotenks

Porunga

Post by **Herms** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:31 pm

So Bulma's mom made the cut, but Vegeta and Piccolo didn't?

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:32 pm

Regarding SSJ being a x10 multiplyer, it still works better with the manga than the Daizenshuu: Kaioken in the manga is described as working in temporary bursts (ie: lasts a few seconds), whereas SSJ is constant. That right there makes SSJ infinitely better than Kaioken x10, despite being equal in strength. Meanwhile, we know Kaiokens above your limit (and Kaio explains that x10 is the limit) works the same way, but DAMAGES your body, making it not as efficient as SSJ.

In other words, Kaioken x10 is a gambit move; either it's enough to defeat the opponent, or it's not. If it wins, yay, but if it doesn't, at least it doesn't cost you anything. However, if it doesn't win with kaioken x11 to x20, you've given your opponent an extra edge over you by wounding yourself.

This even removes the "dramatic effect" plothole of movie 5: Goku figured he'd need more than a x10 multiplyer to defeat Cooler, so he used Kaioken x20 in order to try to take him down. He later decided that a constant x10 is the best choice.

Back to Freeza, we know that the more energy you use, the less you have (until you rest to recooperate it). Let's say Freeza at 50% only had 25 million PL. Goku's 30 mil wouldn't be a big deal if it only lasted a few seconds. Even at kaioken x20, 60 million wouldn't be catastrophic since it means he's only about twice as strong as Freeza, and at that, only a few seconds. Yes, 60 million is a lot more than 25, but as we see, it hurt Freeza's hand greatly.

Plus Freeza lost a lot of energy against the Genkidama, so that means his 60 or 70% PL (not 50% anymore) would no longer equal anything near 25 million. If his weakened 70% dropped to 14 million or under, Freeza at 100% would be less than SSJ Goku's 30 million.