Garlic Jr Saga Discussion Thread.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:02 am

Roshi's Turtle. And I find that ep strangely adoreable.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:12 am

Saiyavenger2941 wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:
Dr. Casey wrote: Also, major props to the writers for giving Unigame an important role for the first time since episode three of Dragon Ball. Between this and defending Marron sometime during the Imperfect Cell era, I think the writers had a major hard-on for Unigame during this middle stretch of Dragon Ball Z.
Who or what is Unigame?

Y HALO THAR HAV A BOAT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e9iHOwht-U

Guess I never really watched any episodes where they mentioned him by name in the Japanese version. My bad.

FuniYamcha · Post by **FuniYamcha** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:24 am

So I guess I was the only one confused as to how Garlic Jr. and his henchmen were so strong? We saw him in the first movie taking on Saiyan Saga warriors. Then Namek happens, and so we get a Piccolo who can beat second form Frieza who claimed to have a power level over one million. So somehow Garlic Jr, and his henchmen on Earth, were able to get to that amount, which had previously only been attained by the ruler of the universe? And I guess you could also count the enraged power of Gohan who was able to harm Frieza too, and whatever power of Krillin that Guru unlocked.

The whole time I watched it, I just kept wondering why either Garlic Jr. and the Spice Boys were so amazingly strong for no reason, or why Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin seemed to have lost all the power they had. I suppose I would have been fine with it if we hadn't previously seen those characters in such a weaker state. I can only have suspension of disbelief for new characters I guess, like how Gero managed to make the androids/cyborgs so powerful. But if Eighter were to come along and be stronger than a Super Saiyan, I'd be pretty confused.

But if I can just assume that Garlic Jr can randomly power up by such a margin, then there should be no reason that Tien, Yamcha and Krillin aren't just randomly as strong as Super Saiyans too some day.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:32 am

FuniYamcha wrote:So I guess I was the only one confused as to how Garlic Jr. and his henchmen were so strong? We saw him in the first movie taking on Saiyan Saga warriors. Then Namek happens, and so we get a Piccolo who can beat second form Freeza who claimed to have a power level over one million. So somehow Garlic Jr, and his henchmen on Earth, were able to get to that amount, which had previously only been attained by the ruler of the universe? And I guess you could also count the enraged power of Gohan who was able to harm Freeza too, and whatever power of Krillin that Guru unlocked.

The whole time I watched it, I just kept wondering why either Garlic Jr. and the Spice Boys were so amazingly strong for no reason, or why Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin seemed to have lost all the power they had. I suppose I would have been fine with it if we hadn't previously seen those characters in such a weaker state. I can only have suspension of disbelief for new characters I guess, like how Gero managed to make the androids/cyborgs so powerful. But if Eighter were to come along and be stronger than a Super Saiyan, I'd be pretty confused.

But if I can just assume that Garlic Jr can randomly power up by such a margin, then there should be no reason that Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Krillin aren't just randomly as strong as Super Saiyans too some day.

It was because of the Mako (?) star/planet/whatever it was. It's presence powered up Garlic Jr enough for them to escape from the Dead Zone, or something like that.

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:36 am

Bussani wrote:
FuniYamcha wrote:So I guess I was the only one confused as to how Garlic Jr. and his henchmen were so strong? We saw him in the first movie taking on Saiyan Saga warriors. Then Namek happens, and so we get a Piccolo who can beat second form Freeza who claimed to have a power level over one million. So somehow Garlic Jr, and his henchmen on Earth, were able to get to that amount, which had previously only been attained by the ruler of the universe? And I guess you could also count the enraged power of Gohan who was able to harm Freeza too, and whatever power of Krillin that Guru unlocked.

The whole time I watched it, I just kept wondering why either Garlic Jr. and the Spice Boys were so amazingly strong for no reason, or why Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin seemed to have lost all the power they had. I suppose I would have been fine with it if we hadn't previously seen those characters in such a weaker state. I can only have suspension of disbelief for new characters I guess, like how Gero managed to make the androids/cyborgs so powerful. But if Eighter were to come along and be stronger than a Super Saiyan, I'd be pretty confused.

But if I can just assume that Garlic Jr can randomly power up by such a margin, then there should be no reason that Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Krillin aren't just randomly as strong as Super Saiyans too some day.
It was because of the Mako (?) star/planet/whatever it was. It's presence powered up Garlic Jr enough for them to escape from the Dead Zone, or something like that.

Welcome to the third reason I don't really like this arc.

FuniYamcha · Post by **FuniYamcha** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:42 am

Mako star, eh? It's been a while, so I completely forgot about that. Even still, that's one hell of a power up they got. But I guess that's where the fact comes in that not much makes sense in Dragon World.

Well, disregarding that, I'd still have to say that I really could have done without the Kami/Popo scenes, as I recall them being particularly not very entertaining.

Commander_Red · Post by **Commander_Red** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:45 am

The whole arc comes down to me just waiting for it to hurry up so I can see Trunks. The fact that I know everything is going to return to normal, with no consequences of what just happened, ruins it for me.
Kami and Popo running around in the graveyard thing got very old after the 15th time of Kami breaking the barrier thing so they can keep running and jump occasionally.
I never quite understood how those dead spirit guys could be such pricks. But I guess they get what's coming to them in the Buu saga *cough* lookout destroyed *cough*...
The Korin and Marron scenes were the highlight for me. Even that joke was overdone though.

Post by **Herms** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:47 am

It's Umigame, not Unigame. Umi=sea, game=kame=turtle, so "Sea Turtle". And the planet from this arc is Planet Makyo (the "ma" meaning "demon/magic", the same one in "Daimao" or "Majin"). It being a star and not a planet is a mistranslation.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:55 am

Herms wrote:It's Umigame, not Unigame.

I came closer than Urigome, at least.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:57 am

I thought it made as much sense as anything else. I mean, Saiyajin get x10 stronger from a full moon, why can't Mazoku get stronger from their evil demon planet thingy? It's not that it doesn't make sense, in my opinion; it's just that it's mystical/spiritual.

Also, Makyo, I thought I was spelling it wrong. Thanks Herms. I knew it wasn't a star, but it's the name that always pops into my head.

A barely related question; what does the 'kyo' in Makyo mean? I seem to remember it can mean 'big'. Is it often used for planets?

Saiyavenger2941 · Post by **Saiyavenger2941** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:57 am

Commander_Red wrote:*cough* lookout destroyed *cough*

GONE! ALL GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:02 am

FuniYamcha wrote:Well, disregarding that, I'd still have to say that I really could have done without the Kami/Popo scenes, as I recall them being particularly not very entertaining.

That's a nice way of putting it. I think their greatest function was to serve as a way of leading into the Cell Saga, Mr. Popo's reaction whenever Kami fuses with Piccolo. Otherwise they were boring as sin and kind of irritating. Just how many times can an on-the-verge-of-death Kami be struck with those lightning bolts before he finally dies?

FuniYamcha · Post by **FuniYamcha** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:05 am

Bussani wrote:I thought it made as much sense as anything else. I mean, Saiyajin get x10 stronger from a full moon, why can't Mazoku get stronger from their evil demon planet thingy? It's not that it doesn't make sense, in my opinion; it's just that it's mystical/spiritual.

Well, I'd be fine with the 10x increase. But, and I hate to bring up power levels, since the characters in the movie were early Saiyan saga strength from what I recall (i.e. around 300-400), and Garlic Jr could contend with post-Namek Piccolo with a power level of let's say 1.5 million, that would mean he got boost of around 4000-5000 times, which is nuts, even for Dragon World.

Post by **Herms** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:48 am

Bussani wrote:Also, Makyo, I thought I was spelling it wrong. Thanks Herms. I knew it wasn't a star, but it's the name that always pops into my head.

A barely related question; what does the 'kyo' in Makyo mean? I seem to remember it can mean 'big'. Is it often used for planets?

The 凶/kyou" part basically means "evil"; Jim Breen's kanji dictionary says it can mean variously "villain; evil; bad luck; disaster", so putting that together with ma/"demon" you can certainly see how it's an ominous name. It's 巨/kyo (no extended vowel sound) that means "big".

The reason it's sometimes called Makyo Star is because the kanji used in its name, 星/sei or hoshi, means both "star" and "planet" depending on the context (the reason being, as I understand it, that originally there wasn't any distinction placed between the two back when astronomy wasn't very advanced). When added onto a name as sei it pretty much always means "planet", so namekku-sei is "Planet Namek" and makyou-sei is "Planet Makyo". Mistranslating this as "star" is surprisingly common in translations of anime and whatnot, even when the "star" in question is clearly an inhabited planet, like in the MSTied movie Gamera vs. Guiron (6:23-6:47).

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:56 am

I'm probably in a VERY small minority when I say that I didn't mind the Garlic Junior Saga at all. It's not that it's bad or anything. It just needs work.

I mean, I think it gets worse the older you get. When I was younger, I thought the fact that Gohan defeated every single enemy was awesome, but now, that's pretty lame. Kuririn deserved something, or Piccolo at the very least. I liked Piccolo and Kuririn pulling a fast one on everybody by pretending to be controlled; the "Kuririn being bitten" scene and whole situation after that actually managed to elicit some much needed suspence. Seriously, if you were watching that for the first time, you'd have absolutely no idea how Gohan was gonna get out of any of that. It's pretty "on the edge of your seat" the first time you watch it, and I can dish out praise to the writers for that.

Kami-sama and Mr. Popo are funny, so they're fun to watch, but I don't even remember WHY the former guardians or whatever were attacking them in the first place, so I can't really judge it fairly because I don't remember it. I haven't seen the episodes in years.

Maron's pretty meh-ish. She's a bland character, but I suppose if I had to pick something positive about her, her scenes with Yamcha do a good job of reminding us of his lack of faithfulness to Bulma, and it provides a little more foreshadowing to their breakup in the Cell Saga. Plus, she gives us an excuse to check on Yajirobe and Karin frequently, which gives us a general idea of what exactly they do to pass the time up there. Those are both good things.

The "Kuririn's 101st Proposal" episode is a really good character oriented story too. It's really the only episode in the entire series that's dedicated to him, so that makes it pretty memorable. I haven't seen it in forever, but I remember enjoying it. We don't get many character episodes in DBZ, so when one comes around, I think everyone should take notice. You really feel sorry for him to get so heartlessly dumped by the woman he was about to propose to (which basically crushes the only non-fighting dream he's had since his debut).

So I like it for a lot of reasons, and you can tell the writers were trying, but like every other filler, it's not perfect.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:02 am

The "Kuririn's 101st Proposal" episode is a really good character oriented story too. It's really the only episode in the entire series that's dedicated to him, so that makes it pretty memorable. I haven't seen it in forever, but I remember enjoying it. We don't get many character episodes in DBZ, so when one comes around, I think everyone should take notice. You really feel sorry for him to get so heartlessly dumped by the woman he was about to propose to (which basically crushes the only non-fighting dream he's had since his debut).

Didn't he dump her, because he felt he couldn't give her everything she wanted?

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:05 am

Like I said, I haven't seen the episodes in forever, but I want to say that right after that moment, she was just all "lolz okay" and ran off with some other guy. Didn't that happen? I think that had a pretty big impact on Kuririn, IIRC.

Kingdom Heartless · Post by **Kingdom Heartless** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:07 am

MagicBox wrote:Like I said, I haven't seen the episodes in forever, but I want to say that right after that moment, she was just all "lolz okay" and ran off with some other guy. Didn't that happen? I think that had a pretty big impact on Kuririn, IIRC.

Oh yeah, something like that.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:09 am

Herms wrote:
Bussani wrote:Also, Makyo, I thought I was spelling it wrong. Thanks Herms. I knew it wasn't a star, but it's the name that always pops into my head.

A barely related question; what does the 'kyo' in Makyo mean? I seem to remember it can mean 'big'. Is it often used for planets?
The 凶/kyou" part basically means "evil"; Jim Breen's kanji dictionary says it can mean variously "villain; evil; bad luck; disaster", so putting that together with ma/"demon" you can certainly see how it's an ominous name. It's 巨/kyo (no extended vowel sound) that means "big".

The reason it's sometimes called Makyo Star is because the kanji used in its name, 星/sei or hoshi, means both "star" and "planet" depending on the context (the reason being, as I understand it, that originally there wasn't any distinction placed between the two back when astronomy wasn't very advanced). When added onto a name as sei it pretty much always means "planet", so namekku-sei is "Planet Namek" and makyou-sei is "Planet Makyo". Mistranslating this as "star" is surprisingly common in translations of anime and whatnot, even when the "star" in question is clearly an inhabited planet, like in the MSTied movie Gamera vs. Guiron (6:23-6:47).

Ahh, I see, I see. Thank you for clearing that up.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:13 am

My issue with this saga was near the very end. Piccolo's a brainless demon Gohan and Kurirrin are all fucked up...how will they get out of this alive!?
"LAWL JAYKAY GUISE I'm NOT EVIL IMMA GO RESCUE KAMI NOW"
It's like they were making this saga up as they went along and got stuck so they just said "fuck it, this was all just an elaborate gag of Piccolo's."

Worst.Ending.Ever