Necessary Name Changes in Dub?

Oolong215 · Post by **Oolong215** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:52 pm

Changing Mr. Satan to Hercule was probably necessary for the edited version, but all the other name changes were completely stupid in my mind.

Post by **Herms** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:46 pm

Castor Troy wrote:While King Kai is a good translation of Kaio-Sama, I would have preferred "Lord Kai" but Saban didn't want any religious references. :?

But the thing about "King Kai" is that it only half translates "Kaio". It's like calling Shenlong "God Long" or Majin Buu "Ma-Man Buu". It doesn't convey the actual meaning of the original name (that he is the King of Worlds) at all. Instead you just get the idea that he's some king (of what?) who happens to be named "Kai". Viz handled it much better, calling him Lord of Worlds.

Tibby · Post by **Tibby** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:42 am

Herms wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:
SaiyamanMS wrote:"Bulla" instead of "Bra"? (Of course, "Bulla" is a valid romanisation, but still...)
Now that I think of it, yeah, that was definately a necessary change.
I find it guite horrendously stupid that they'd feel the need to change a reference to a garmet worn by roughly half the population, as if it were some terrible, terrible secret that kids shouldn't be exposed to.

They're probably just worried about possible complaints from over-sensitive viewers(parents I guess). Same for Mr. Satan.

I don't really understand what people have against the name "Bulla." It doesn't sound any sillier than "Bulma." I guess you could argue that it eliminates the pun, but Kuririn's name is written on his hat as "Kulilin" in one of Toriyama's illustrations and that eliminates the pun on the word "chestnut" so...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:27 am

Tibby wrote:I don't really understand what people have against the name "Bulla." It doesn't sound any sillier than "Bulma." I guess you could argue that it eliminates the pun, but Kuririn's name is written on his hat as "Kulilin" in one of Toriyama's illustrations and that eliminates the pun on the word "chestnut" so...

Kulilin doesn't really eliminate the pun. It's just a different way of romanizing the same thing, I think? Ls and Rs are funny when romanizing Japanese words.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:39 am

Bussani wrote:Kulilin doesn't really eliminate the pun. It's just a different way of romanizing the same thing, I think? Ls and Rs are funny when romanizing Japanese words.

Japanese transliteration systems use "R". So you could say using "L" instead does make the pun less obvious.

Daburcor · Post by **Daburcor** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:22 am

None of the name changes were necessary.

B · Post by B » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:40 am

Daburcor wrote:None of the name changes were necessary.

You can't have a character called Satan on a children's network in the U.S. There's no argument here. It was necenssary to broadcast Z.

Plus, they (sort of)changed it back anyway on the hoem releases.

Bura · Post by **Bura** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:40 am

B wrote:Oh yeah, completely forgot Bulla.

Not like anyone cares about her anyway, though.

Aww, that's not true! I'm a big fan!! XD
Anyway, to me "Bulla" was one of the most stupid name changes ever. They could've just gone with Bura.

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:03 am

Bura wrote:
B wrote:Oh yeah, completely forgot Bulla.

Not like anyone cares about her anyway, though.
Aww, that's not true! I'm a big fan!! XD
Anyway, to me "Bulla" was one of the most stupid name changes ever. They could've just gone with Bura.

The problem is that there is already a character named "Bora".

If they used "Bura", fans will get confused.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:17 am

SHINOBI-03 wrote:The problem is that there is already a character named "Bora".

If they used "Bura", fans will get confused.

Yes, they will confuse Vegeta's daughter with that big Indian guy from all the way back in the middle of Dragonball.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:29 am

I think Krillin was justifiable. It could be pronounced as "Kurilin" because of the whole "r" and "l" thing. All they really did was get rid of the "u", so it's Krillin. Besides, anyone who pronounces it as "Kuririn" just makes it sound absolutely hilarious. You want to know the major reason why they pronounce it as "Krillin"? The same reason they don't say "Burdaku" or "Turanksu"... BECAUSE IT DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT IN ENGLISH! How do you go on giving a whole line in English and then spit out the most Japanese-sounding word in the world?

Post by **Herms** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:25 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:The same reason they don't say "Burdaku" or "Turanksu"...

Because those aren't even the Japanese pronunciations?

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:16 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:How do you go on giving a whole line in English and then spit out the most Japanese-sounding word in the world?

Have you ever said hors d'œuvre? How about blitz? Maybe faux paus?

Also, maybe 'cuz some of those names are the names I knew years and years and years before FUNimation would get to them in a revision that I wouldn't even still be watching, anyway, when they got to that point...?

B · Post by B » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:52 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:I think Krillin was justifiable. It could be pronounced as "Kurilin" because of the whole "r" and "l" thing. All they really did was get rid of the "u", so it's Krillin. Besides, anyone who pronounces it as "Kuririn" just makes it sound absolutely hilarious. You want to know the major reason why they pronounce it as "Krillin"? The same reason they don't say "Burdaku" or "Turanksu"... BECAUSE IT DOES NOT SOUND RIGHT IN ENGLISH! How do you go on giving a whole line in English and then spit out the most Japanese-sounding word in the world?

Kuririn isn't the best example for this argument, because as you said, the interchangeable L and R.

I agree however it's just annoying when people use romanizations when it's rather clear what the word actually is, such as Pikkoro, Bejita, Gotenkusu, etc.

SweetCosmicPope · Post by **SweetCosmicPope** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:28 pm

Not to go too far off topic, but where did the whole Mr. Savage thing come from, anyway?

I know I've seen that somewhere before, but I can't place it. Maybe from the Cell and Buu saga action figures that were released before most Americans even heard of them?

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:47 pm

SweetCosmicPope wrote:Not to go too far off topic, but where did the whole Mr. Savage thing come from, anyway?

I know I've seen that somewhere before, but I can't place it. Maybe from the Cell and Buu saga action figures that were released before most Americans even heard of them?

The name is on some really old toy packaging from before he had a dub name, yeah.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:41 pm

SaiyamanMS wrote:"Bulla" instead of "Bra"? (Of course, "Bulla" is a valid romanisation, but still...)

Except it isn’t. The double-L in most romanization schemes would imply a sokuon, e.g. “ブッラ” (compare to the original “ブラ”), which lengthens the consonant “u”. I realize that was the point—because naturally Trunks being named after boys’ underwear is okay, but Bra being feminine is immediately sexual, and therefore harmful and wrong—but “Bula” would have been the less bastardized way of doing it.

Bussani wrote:Eighter...eh, I guess they could think of something better, but I can't think of anything good off of the top of my head.

I went through a list of possible alternatives in another thread. Can’t find it now, but I think “Eighty” or less-confusingly, “Little Eight” would have sufficed.

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:By that logic, shouldn't we all be typing "Bloomer" or "Bloomers" rather than Bulma?

No, because the actual article of clothing “ブルマー” (burumā) is spelled differently from the DB character “ブルマ” (Buruma). Technically, you could say “Blooma” and still be correct. I personally prefer this spelling, as it preserves the pun, though I don’t know if Toriyama ever romanized it that way.

Herms wrote:While I certainly see the reasons behind changing Mister Satan's name, I think "Hercule" is a rather random and dumb thing to change his name too. I think it would have been better for them to go with a name that at least sounded closer to the original name, like "Mister Savage".

If “Satan” were pronounced “Sah-tahn”, like it is in Japanese, the God-fearing soccer moms of the States would never know the difference. But I agree. In light of that (and the awkward spelling it would undoubtedly require), “Savage” would have been much more acceptable than Herc’.

Well, he is called the "emperor of demons" and did actually kill people, if only to protect his treasure. The whole idea is that he's a big, scary-looking guy with a scary name who turns out to not be all that bad, so removing the "demon" part of his name weakens that slightly. Though in Viz's case at least, I think they removed the "demon" part simply because "Ox King" is so much shorter than "Ox Demon King".

This brings up something I’ve always sort of wondered about Kanji translations: are they even necessary? Is it actually considered good practice to preserve meaning over phonetics when adapting foreign names? Like, for instance, we do not call Toriyama “Bird Mountain”, so why call Gyuumaou “Ox”-anything?

ssjcj · Post by **ssjcj** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:05 pm

I thought the Kuririn to Krillin was a good one. Kuririn is harder for the 'kiddies' to say.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:08 pm

Acid_Reign wrote:Trunks being named after boys’ underwear is okay

I dunno how it is in other parts of the country, but where I grew up 'trunks' when referring to clothing only refers to the swimming shorts. 'Bloomers' is similarly unknown.

If “Satan” were pronounced “Sah-tahn”, like it is in Japanese, the God-fearing soccer moms of the States would never know the difference.

Until they see his name written in text. Like every single time there's a crowd at the World Tournament.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:30 pm

Rocketman wrote:I dunno how it is in other parts of the country, but where I grew up 'trunks' when referring to clothing only refers to the swimming shorts. 'Bloomers' is similarly unknown.

“Trunks” commonly refers to sportswear, yes, but it can technically be any type of brief shorts. “Bloomers” is the same way. It’s not too common a word because they haven’t really been fashionable since the 19th century. Japan loaned the word from English and they’re still contemporary, though worn as gym shorts.

Until they see his name written in text. Like every single time there's a crowd at the World Tournament.

Last time I checked, they digitally erased his entire name and replaced it with something completely different. As I mentioned, they could spell it differently; it would just look awkward.