Xenophobia: How does it impact the DragonBall fanbase?

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Those are all perfectly fine, and yes, I've (of course) checked them out... but I continue to bring it back to whatever the original version is will be the one that I "stick with". The rest (in this case, the dubs) are just novelties at best.

It's kinda like a cover song. The cover may be cool, and may stand on its own merits, but there's an original behind it. That original was made for a reason, has its own history, context, meaning, etc. I may love a cover version, but nothing can replace that original in terms of that history. It's just dripping with substance, and I feel like I have a burning desire to take it back to whatever that first experience was like.

That is the best comparison for this situation. When a cover comes out maybe the original was an old song and there were many people who didn't get a chance to hear it. However they get to know with the cover version. when they find this cover it opens the door too a whole new band that they have never seen before. In my case, The original was something else something awesome and without it the cover would have never seen the day of light. Yet because I found the cover first I just have a sort of connection to it. Its not like I dislike the original(I actually love both) its just I prefer the cover because thats what I discovered first.

...*ends rambling*

[Victator Supreme]

Unless a paragraph shows up in the subtitles in one go, it really isn't that hard to watch a movie/show with subtitles.

If you've been speaking English for over 13 years you should find that your brain instantly takes in stuff that's written down clearly. Subtitles are not an effort to read, and it's not like your eyes are fixed on the bottom half of the screen.

Your mature brain absorbs your native language, unless you need people to speak slowly, or take 1 hour to read 1 page of a book.

At any time did I say it was difficult? No i said I did not like to read tv. I don't like to watch music. Nor do I like to listen to books. I do not care for for drinking food or eating drinks. None of these things take much effort. yet i prefer to use them as they were originally intended.

But while I'm here. I actually think a faithful dub is more true to the original creators intent than a person (who has little knowledge of the language) reading sub titles of the original version.

[The Time Traveller]

More like a remake of the song with verses changed, rhythm swapped around, and a ton of WORDS added.

Take what I said about Subtitles, and try watching the dub with subtitles on, you'll see what I mean by the dialogue changing.

They could be saying "You're a poopy head!" in the dub and "We need to act now!"/absolutely nothing in the subs.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

More like a remake of the song with verses changed, rhythm swapped around, and a ton of WORDS added.

Take what I said about Subtitles, and try watching the dub with subtitles on, you'll see what I mean by the dialogue changing.

They could be saying "You're a poopy head!" in the dub and "We need to act now!"/absolutely nothing in the subs.

If you look at subs from 10-15 years ago sure but really that's not always the case.

[The Time Traveller]

If you look at subs from 10-15 years ago sure but really that's not always the case.

What do you mean?

[Big Momma]

I watch the Japanese track of DBZ mostly because of the BGM and script changes.

For instance, the Naruto dub uses the original BGM and has a pretty darn accurate script, so I usually watch that over the Japanese, but there are some VOICES that I think match the characters in Japanese.

That, and I'm also studying the language, so it's good practice.(You'd be suprised how much you can learn from watching the original Japanese of Naruto/Dragon Ball.)

[Olivier Hague]

This is the equivalent to blind Japanese hate on the other side. This is the type of ignorance that confuses me.

Well, I sure realize it might look that way...
But when I hear people say "noooo, English dubs have gone a long way! just check out Cowboy Bebop! it's even better than the original one! and David Hayter? he is Solid Snake!", I can't help but think that if the US voice-acting industry still lacks a lot of experience/mileage, so do those viewers.
I guess English dubs are getting better, yes (that would only be natural... and the contrary would be downright scary), but we're really not there yet. And that's not surprising at all: just a decade and some change of video games and Japanese animation just can't bring them on the level of their Japanese counterparts that have been around for a lot longer and for a lot more series/games/movies (that would also include many dubbed live-action US movies and series... do I really need to point out the scarcity of dubbed foreign live-action movies and series released in the States?). Add to that the natural handicaps of any dub of foreign material, and it's really no wonder the original Japanese easily come off on top.

Just like any other person out their in the world, I'd prefer things to be in my native tongue so I can understand them easily.

Well, clearly not "like any other person out their in the world"...
I don't understand a single word of Swedish, but I would never watch a dubbed Swedish movie if subtitles (in a language I understand, naturally) were an option.

what Olivier was probably trying to say there is that dubs are worse than the original versions

Yes, that's what I would have said if I hadn't felt slightly facetious.
Well, I probably would have said "generally, dubs are worse than the original versions", but the "generally" is just me being cautious. I sure can't think of any example right now...

I'm sure there are some people out there but do you think the major population in Japan listen to shows like Batman and the Simpson in English because of its original audio?

You may not want to go there... Subtitles for foreign movies/series are often an option in Japan, be it on TV or in theaters, and it's been that way for a long time, too.
Based on my experience/observations, French people are slightly more "subtitle-tolerant" than Americans, but also a lot less than Japanese.

On the contrary (as MajinVegeta pointed out himself) the Japanese are a bit xenophobes themselves.

Let's not mince words: a whole lot of Japanese people are xenophobes. It's pretty scary. Not surprising, but scary.

The Japanese demographic was equally disappointed but not because he was slender and blond. To them, Raiden was a bishonen (a typical beautifull boy apperance in the world of anime and manga) who could be tough, strong and badass but......... he was simply not Snake (the previous non-bishonen hero in MGS1).

And the fact he could be tough, strong and badass was well-conveyed by the Japanese voice actor. "Not so much" by the US one.
"Oh, he looks like an effeminate wimp! 'Guess he should sound like one, too, then, huh?"
Why, thank you for "getting it", English dub!

Really, I wouldn't say the Japanese players were "equally disappointed"... There was a world of difference between the reception of that character in the States and in Japan. At the end of the day, sure, he's still no Snake, but.

This is the same problem for many people(especially the younger audience) because they will try to watch something but they are having a hard time keeping up until the eventually just give up entirely.

Well, maybe the younger audience needs to learn to focus a tiny bit. They're young, they can, and I don't think shielding them from those evil subtitles will help them in any way, quite on the contrary (hel-lo, ADD!).

I know it's extremely rare but sometimes a dub can be just as good if not better than the original. Just look at shows like Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, and Death Note.

I just knew somebody would mention Cowboy Bebop at one point or another. It never fails (I wrote the above part before reading this).
I can't fathom how some might argue that the English dub of Cowboy Bebop is "great", or (*gasp*) "superior to the original".
Same thing for FLCL. I don't think I've heard Death Note. But it's probably better that way.

Here's an old post that begins to explain the kind of problems I have with the so-called "superior" dub of Cowboy Bebop. It's pretty specific, but it sure does a better job at it than I would with my English skills.

[Adamant]

Ok regardless of its origin my background is the English Language. Therefore its only natural that I would want to listen to the dialog in English. Sure Dragonball has its roots in Japan and I respect that but Id prefer to hear the dialog in English. Just like any other person out their in the world, I'd prefer things to be in my native tongue so I can understand them easily.

Far from it. I can walk over to my window, look out, and tell you that, without doubt, I'm not seeing a single person over the age of 10 that would want to watch a dub of something foreign over a subtitled version in the original language. Why? Because these are normal people, and dubs are solely made for children who either can't read or are too slow readers to follow subtitles. When one grows up, one switches to subtitles, so one can enjoy the real version of the series/movie rather than some quick localisation done for the convenience of children.

[Victator Supreme]

How is reading sub titles more true to creator intent than a faithful dub?

[Adamant]

Because a subtitled version shows you the original version while also explaining what people are saying, while a dubbed version alters the original in order to explain what people are saying. Isn't that obvious enough?

[Olivier Hague]

How is reading sub titles more true to creator intent than a faithful dub?

Well, some US dub directors and voice actors are slightly clueless...

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

If you look at subs from 10-15 years ago sure but really that's not always the case.

What do you mean?

10-15 years ago the dubs were terrible. Just look at dragonball in its early stages now look at how much its improved over the years. Same with other studios out there. The only one who hasn't improved but in fact gets worse is 4Kids...but who cares about 4Kids?

[Victator Supreme]

Because a subtitled version shows you the original version while also explaining what people are saying, while a dubbed version alters the original in order to explain what people are saying. Isn't that obvious enough?

It was not meant to be watched in that fashion. adding sub titles changes the intended viewing experience. While a faithful dub gives you the same viewing experience as the original audience had.

Well, some US dub directors and voice actors are slightly clueless...

You missed a word in my initial post. A faithful dub.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Because a subtitled version shows you the original version while also explaining what people are saying, while a dubbed version alters the original in order to explain what people are saying. Isn't that obvious enough?

It was not meant to be watched in that fashion. adding sub titles changes the intended viewing experience. While a faithful dub gives you the same viewing experience as the original audience had.

Well, some US dub directors and voice actors are slightly clueless...

You missed a word in my initial post. A faithful dub.

You forgot the point that not all subs are faithful either. Some of them throw in extra cursing(look at dragonball for example) to make it seem more hardcore.

[Victator Supreme]

Because a subtitled version shows you the original version while also explaining what people are saying, while a dubbed version alters the original in order to explain what people are saying. Isn't that obvious enough?

It was not meant to be watched in that fashion. adding sub titles changes the intended viewing experience. While a faithful dub gives you the same viewing experience as the original audience had.

Well, some US dub directors and voice actors are slightly clueless...

You missed a word in my initial post. A faithful dub.

You forgot the point that not all subs are faithful either. Some of them throw in extra cursing(look at dragonball for example) to make it seem more hardcore.

I'm just looking at as both sies being equal. In the case of DBZ the subs are always top notch while parts of the dub are less than okay.

[B]

Because a subtitled version shows you the original version while also explaining what people are saying, while a dubbed version alters the original in order to explain what people are saying. Isn't that obvious enough?

It was not meant to be watched in that fashion. adding sub titles changes the intended viewing experience. While a faithful dub gives you the same viewing experience as the original audience had.

Well, some US dub directors and voice actors are slightly clueless...

You missed a word in my initial post. A faithful dub.

You forgot the point that not all subs are faithful either. Some of them throw in extra cursing(look at dragonball for example) to make it seem more hardcore.

That's a stupid comment. The original version throws around "expletives" a handful of times. It's either omit them(can't do that in a sub!) or translate them as "swear" words. Someone yelling "KUUUUUUSOOOOOO" is pretty much "fuck" or "shit" or "damn." "Dang" and the like work as well, but to English speakers, that comes off as campy. Nobody who's just gotten the shit knocked out of them against a mountainside such as [insert DBZ character here] is going to be yelling "Aw, crackerjacks!"

And that's ignoring series context. Not expecting bloodthirsty space pirates who kill for pleasure or grown men to swear once in a while is pretty damn naive.

[Wojak]

Because a subtitled version shows you the original version while also explaining what people are saying, while a dubbed version alters the original in order to explain what people are saying. Isn't that obvious enough?

It was not meant to be watched in that fashion. adding sub titles changes the intended viewing experience. While a faithful dub gives you the same viewing experience as the original audience had.

Well, some US dub directors and voice actors are slightly clueless...

You missed a word in my initial post. A faithful dub.

You forgot the point that not all subs are faithful either. Some of them throw in extra cursing(look at dragonball for example) to make it seem more hardcore.

Although I want to say that you stole my words, I would like to add that we have to distinguish a merited and educated translator working for a big company and AnimeLabs that were mere fans.

[Olivier Hague]

You missed a word in my initial post. A faithful dub.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the translation, there...
I guess I have a lot of trouble actually imagining a "faithful dub", then.

[Adamant]

It was not meant to be watched in that fashion. adding sub titles changes the intended viewing experience.

Yes, slightly, since you're getting part of the picture obscured by text, but unless you want to fully learn the language, it's as close as you can get.

While a faithful dub gives you the same viewing experience as the original audience had.

Uh, no. Not only will the voices be different, but the script will need to be adjusted to fit in the alotted time as well.

If you take, say, Die Hard, mute the voices, and hand it to FUNimation along with a script and tell them to add voices to the movie, would the end result give the same viewing experience? And would anyone want to watch this dub over the original?

[Victator Supreme]

While a faithful dub gives you the same viewing experience as the original audience had.

Uh, no. Not only will the voices be different, but the script will need to be adjusted to fit in the alotted time as well.

If you take, say, Die Hard, mute the voices, and hand it to FUNimation along with a script and tell them to add voices to the movie, would the end result give the same viewing experience? And would anyone want to watch this dub over the original?

Very very bad example.

1, Why would an English dubbing company dub an English movie.

2. As I mentioned earlier, live action does not apply. With live action there is an issue of dubbing altering how the movie looks. The mouth flaps never match up well and take you out of the viewing experience.

If there was a truly effective way to dub live action, Power Rangers would not exist.

With an animated movie you do not have this problem. he only issue at hand is producing a faithful script and cast. Once you take care of that you have a viewing experience much closer to creator intent than sub titles.