Gogeta or Vegetto

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:11 am

Ultimate DBZ wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiPG9S28Ud0 This is the ending of Dragon Ball Z Movie 13: Wrath of the Dragon. This video shows that the sword Tapion gave Trunks was the sword Future Trunks used. Therfor, DBZ Movie 13 affected the manga, which proved that the DBZ Mvoies are not side stories. Oh, and WATCH THE CREDITS OF THE VIDEO ALSO!

Do the math. It's fucking impossible that that Trunks of this time could be the Trunks that kills Freeza using that sword.
Also, why're you being such a giant prick about everything?

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:38 am

Ultimate DBZ wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiPG9S28Ud0 This is the ending of Dragon Ball Z Movie 13: Wrath of the Dragon. This video shows that the sword Tapion gave Trunks was the sword Future Trunks used. Therfor, DBZ Movie 13 affected the manga, which proved that the DBZ Mvoies are not side stories. Oh, and WATCH THE CREDITS OF THE VIDEO ALSO!

How is that proof that they aren't side stories? I don't understand how you've come to that conclusion. The movie didn't affect the manga, since the manga still works without it. The movie is a possible explanation for how Trunks got his sword, but it makes no sense, and there's no proof that it's what Toriyama considers to be true.

The movie can show whatever it wants, it doesn't make it fact to the manga. Just because a movie says so, doesn't mean the author themselves has to accept it as fact. If Toriyama had to accept everything Toei made as canon, the manga would have ended up quite different. Goku's ship would have been destroyed by Piccolo, people in Hell would keep their bodies...for some reason, and Vegeta would be wrong about all pure Saiyajin having black hair.

Just to reiterate one more time; it makes no sense that it is the same sword. It's nothing more than an ironic homage. To me, the credits are like, "look! Trunks is always destined to end up with a(n identical looking) sword!!" Even though main timeline Trunks never uses a sword in the manga...ever.

Tweaker · Post by **Tweaker** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:42 am

Okay, first off, everyone needs to stop. All of this negativity and insult-flinging is completely unacceptable. We're all mature here; let's act like it.

Nextly, Ultimate DBZ, have you read the main site at all? Because if you have, you'd notice there's an entire section dedicated to debunking the very kind of baseless rumors you've been posting about. In the case of Trunks' sword, the inconsistencies section of the website covers exactly why that cannot be the story of how Future Trunks got his sword right at the bottom of the page.

To avoid spats like this in the future, I strongly suggest doing your research before posting unfounded claims; in addition, I suggest familiarizing yourself with the board guidelines that you agreed to when you registered. Perhaps you should give the entire website a read? It's very interesting stuff, if you haven't already.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:00 am

Ultimate DBZ wrote:
Eddie wrote:Enlighten us. How did Future Trunks get that sword? Did he go back to the main timeline, kick Kid Trunks, and say, "Gimme the sword, b****"? Does it have magic powers that allow it to be in two eras simultaneously? We can't contain our excitement. Please, I beg of you, give us the answer.
I don't know. But if you watch that entire video, including the credits, it'll show you that Future Trunks has the sword of Tapion. How, who knows? Ask Akira Toriyama. But, he just did. Like, Goku's Genki-Dama should've destroyed Planet Namek, but it didn't. http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=11475

Movies are just like filler episodes. They are often full of inconsistencies that contradict the main events of the manga.

As such, all we can do is ignore them as canon and consider them as side stories or alternative realities.

DemonRin · Post by **DemonRin** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:41 am

MCDaveG wrote:Veggeto, since he's canon and Gogeta not.

Geez, it's a Hypotthetical question, technicalities like this are really dumb to bring up in an offhanded hypothetical wonder.

I'm gonna have to go with Vegetto however, because first off, I think Elder Kaioshin said something about the Earrings being better and more refined than the Fusion dance (though I may be mistaken) and what's more, the Lack of a time limit is a major advantage. It'd suck for Gogeta to go up against a villain who could actually give him a challenge, and then in the middle of the Fight, POOF, He's Son and Vegeta again.

GT was a prime example of this, but it wasn't a challenging Villain that did it, it was just The Animators deciding that The Fusion was what Made Gotenks arrogant instead of the Logical explanation, the fact that they're Little kids, so they went "Oh, OBVIOUSLY Gogeta would be an arrogant Jackass too" so he ran out of time.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:42 am

Bastard Swords were the weapon of choice in the future right? I remember in the MIND... POWER... Ki moment, some people had the same swords.

Ultimate DBZ · Post by **Ultimate DBZ** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:57 pm

Okay, I'm going to try to explain this as clear as possibal. Lets say Movie 13 took place in 770AD (not saying it happened in 770AD, jut giving an example). Trunks from both timelines passed 770AD at one point. In both timelines, Trunks got Tapion's sword, but he just got it in different ways. In Movie 13, Tapion wanted someone to kill kim so Hyruddegarn would dissapear, or die. In Future Trunk's timeline (we'll call it timeline B), someone probally killed Tapion to kill Hyruddegarn. Then, the person who killed Tapion in Timeline B, (probally Gohan because he was the only Z-Fighter left) probally wanted to give Trunks the sword. In Timeline A, nobody killed Tapion because Goku stopped him because he was still alive in that timeline. Then, alive Tapion gave Trunks the sword. In Timeline B, did Trunks still have some envolvement with Tapion? In Timeline B, was Trunks as intrested in Tapion as Timeline A, so Gohan decided Trunks would be the most appropiete person to give the sword to? Nobody will know. But it could've happened in Future Trunk's timeline too, just in a different way. Besides, after Trunks recieved the sword, why did they start showing images of Future Trunks using his sword! Just use your immagination of how it could've happened, and not how it couldn't happen.

SSj Kaboom wrote:I suppose it's not entirely impossible for Tapion to have shown up in Trunks' timeline as well as the "prime" one. Though the circumstances and events that would unravel are up to anyone's imagination.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:07 pm

But it didn't affect the manga did it? Trunks and his sword show in up way before that film was ever made. The film just incorporated it as a reference, it didn't affect anything.

And we still don't see Trunks with his sword until the period 3 years after Gohan dies. He never has it before that.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:09 pm

Ultimate DBZ wrote:Okay, I'm going to try to explain this as clear as possibal. Lets say Movie 13 took place in 770AD (not saying it happened in 770AD, jut giving an example). Trunks from both timelines passed 770AD at one point. In both timelines, Trunks got Tapion's sword, but he just got it in different ways. In Movie 13, Tapion wanted someone to kill kim so Hyruddegarn would dissapear, or die. In Future Trunk's timeline (we'll call it timeline B), someone probally killed Tapion to kill Hyruddegarn. Then, the person who killed Tapion in Timeline B, (probally Gohan because he was the only Z-Fighter left) probally wanted to give Trunks the sword. In Timeline A, nobody killed Tapion because Goku stopped him because he was still alive in that timeline. Then, alive Tapion gave Trunks the sword. In Timeline B, did Trunks still have some envolvement with Tapion? In Timeline B, was Trunks as intrested in Tapion as Timeline A, so Gohan decided Trunks would be the most appropiete person to give the sword to? Nobody will know. But it could've happened in Future Trunk's timeline too, just in a different way. Besides, after Trunks recieved the sword, why did they start showing images of Future Trunks using his sword! Just use your immagination of how it could've happened, and not how it couldn't happen.

SSj Kaboom wrote:I suppose it's not entirely impossible for Tapion to have shown up in Trunks' timeline as well as the "prime" one. Though the circumstances and events that would unravel are up to anyone's imagination.

It takes the very powerful magic of the DBs to release Tapion, though, magic which does not exist in Future Trunks' timeline. Not only that, but 6 years prior to the Trunks special, Hoi brought the bottom half of Hildegarn to Future-Earth. How'd they manage to destroy it while Tapion was still sealed? Tapion would only be released in the 3 years between the Trunks Special and Trunks' first trip to the past.

Ultimate DBZ · Post by **Ultimate DBZ** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:13 pm

I guess the creators didn't think about when making the movie, and making the conclusion at the End of the Movie that Future Trunk's sword was Tapion. But, if you watch the Credits, you'll see that they came to that conclusion.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:17 pm

I don't think so. It's just a reference, showing kid Trunks get a sword like his future self had. He ends up using it in GT I think.

Ultimate DBZ · Post by **Ultimate DBZ** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:21 pm

Amigo Ten wrote:I don't think so. It's just a reference, showing kid Trunks get a sword like his future self had.

That could be a possability. Or the creators of that Movie could've just screwed up, causing an inconsistency.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:27 pm

Future Trunks' daizenshuu 7 bio says the anime version of (future) Trunks got his sword from Tapion. So it really is just an inconsistency.

Ultimate DBZ · Post by **Ultimate DBZ** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:40 pm

Dayspring wrote:Future Trunks' daizenshuu 7 bio says the anime version of (future) Trunks got his sword from Tapion. So it really is just an inconsistency.

Well, there you go. You know, VegettoEX should really discuss this topic for his next podcast.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:58 pm

Ultimate DBZ wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Future Trunks' daizenshuu 7 bio says the anime version of (future) Trunks got his sword from Tapion. So it really is just an inconsistency.
Well, there you go. You know, VegettoEX should really discuss this topic for his next podcast.

Did you completely miss Tweaker's post, saying that VegettoEX already covered this in the inconsistencies section of the website? Actually, you seem to have missed everyone's posts, and just repeated what they've already said. You explain the idea about Tapion appearing in both timelines as if you're the only one who understands it, even though Kaboom already suggested it.

I don't know how I can make this any more clear; even if you use your imagination to make it fit, that doesn't mean it's how Toriyama thought Trunks got his sword. He probably had his own explanation for it while writing the manga. Just because it can fit doesn't elevate it from the status of side-story.

Sshadow5001 · Post by **Sshadow5001** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:42 pm

if Future Trunks' sword was Tapions sword then the sword wasn't so great. after all the sword broke on Android 18's arm.

also at that point in time the dragonballs were not around in Future Trunks' timeline because piccolo was killed, the music box would not have been opened so no Tapion and no Hirudigarn

even if it was only half of Hirudigarn runing around i doubt that any of the Z fighters that were still alive could have killed it and there would be no sword for Trunks

its all an inconsistency

russ869 · Post by **russ869** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:20 pm

I love how this has nothing to do with the titile of this topic.

I have a question that at least sounds like it's on-topic (but isn't). Am I crazy or was both Vegetto and Gogeta in that Buu's Fury GBA game? And if so why? Wasn't Legacy of Goku 2 and Buu's Fury supposed mostly follow the story of the manga/non-filler anime. Where did Gogeta come in? I've completely forgotten.

Post by **Herms** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:30 pm

Dayspring wrote:Future Trunks' daizenshuu 7 bio says the anime version of (future) Trunks got his sword from Tapion. So it really is just an inconsistency.

The anime library book for movie 13 also has this little box at one point explaining how Tapion's sword is one and the same as future Trunks'. So that is what they were going for. Although Daizenshuu 7, despite having that note in Trunks' bio, does list future Trunks' sword and Tapion's sword seperately in the item dictionary. So I wonder if some of the people working on the daizenshuu knew that the whole Trunks' sword=Tapion's sword thing didn't make much sense.

Ultimate DBZ · Post by **Ultimate DBZ** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:11 pm

Sorry, I guess Vegetto or Gogeta was a stupid question. Gogeta just looken so powerful, and defeated Janemba so easily. Plus, when Vegetto was fighting Buu while he was 'Super Vegetto', Vegetto got Buu mad so Buu made the sky really cloudy, and Vegetto tried to stop him but there was like a force field or something, so Vegetto had to actually try to get past it.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:08 pm

russ869 wrote:Wasn't Legacy of Goku 2 and Buu's Fury supposed mostly follow the story of the manga/non-filler anime. Where did Gogeta come in? I've completely forgotten.

Both LoG2 and BF had movie villains to extend the gameplay.

In BF, after Goku returns to the afterlife, he finds Yemma imprisoned, then goes down to hell, finds Vegeta, and they become Gogeta to kill Janemba. (The dead rising from Janemba's effect on reality is the explanation for why there's all the zombie/mummy/vampire generic enemies to fight on Earth).