"FUNimation thinks its audience is stupid" - Wait, what?

[jjgp1112]

As Anonymous Friend said, there's a difference between lying and thinking someone's stupid. IYou don't have to think someone's stupid to lie to them. I lie to my teachers all the time. Does that mean I think they're stupid?

[JulieYBM]

As Anonymous Friend said, there's a difference between lying and thinking someone's stupid. IYou don't have to think someone's stupid to lie to them. I lie to my teachers all the time. Does that mean I think they're stupid?

It means you think you can out-smart them, at the very least.


Don't lie to adults, kids! It makes us want to hit you, and then the G-Men come down...and things get ugly.

~Jacob

[caejones]

As Anonymous Friend said, there's a difference between lying and thinking someone's stupid. IYou don't have to think someone's stupid to lie to them. I lie to my teachers all the time. Does that mean I think they're stupid?

Hell, I tell the truth and have been (ur, wrongly) accused of thinking people are stupid.
... Oh, wait. I think we just accidentally made a point (well, it was accidental on my part, anyway. ).

[the_abberration]

jjgp1112 I found something that you may be interested in. (Credit to the DBZ: Uncensored website)

But where does this become a "calculated insult on the audience's intelligence?" I highly doubt that FUNi executives were sitting in their offices saying, "Man, those American children sure are stupid, they're not smart enough to like it like this."

Here's an excerpt from an interview conducted in 1996 with Gen and Cindy Fukunaga, the husband and wife team heading Dragon Ball's U.S. production. The interview is from Animerica magazine, Vol. 4, No.11 (November 1996):

For the purposes of merchandising, Nielsen ratings, and advertisements, we're targeting mainly 6-to-11 year old boys. But we also found, during our broadcast of the first Dragon Ball, that it was doing quite well with men, too, all the way up into their mid-20s. The story itself is actually for a higher age group than the basic audience target; in actuality, the characters are fairly deep. It's comparacble to a number of comic books these days that are read by a higher age group than kids. We intend to leave in that depth of story and character that was present in the Japanese original. [GF]

So basically, they acknowledged the show was geared at kids, were fully aware of an older fanbase, conceded DBZ was a deeper type of show, insured they were going to keep that depth, and then dumbed it down so kids would understand it. So yes they did say kids were too stupid to like it like that. They just said it in a more PC way.

Also, Chris Psaros kind of sums up the reason on the whole Sunday thing that I brought up. This is an excerpt from his episodes review back in 1998 IIRC.

Vegeta: "Too bad it's Sunday, those buildings would have been full tomorrow."

This was the first line used to lure the audience into believing that the city Nappa is about to destroy is utterly and totally abandoned. Of course, no sane person would believe this, but FUNimation doesn't expect people to be sane.

Nappa, upon leveling the city: "That area may have been evacuated, but it'll give them something to think about!"

Alright, FUNimation, let me explain why this doesn't make sense: Number one, the pods landed about five minutes ago, and five minutes is, oh, a a couple of DAYS short of the time it would take to evacuate a city. Number two, there was a whole crowd of people gawking at Nappa as, AS, he was doing his attack, and unless they have some sort of magical teleportation device, or they can run two miles per second, they got zapped along with everything else.

Are you trying to insult the intelligence of every last person watching?

Although the show's target audience may have been 6-11 year olds, FUNimation was fully aware that their true "audience" were older. They just wanted to sell toys to dumb kids. Because as we all know, no intelligent person over the age of 11 would buy toys because we liked a show that had depth right?

[MajinVejitaXV]

As Anonymous Friend said, there's a difference between lying and thinking someone's stupid. IYou don't have to think someone's stupid to lie to them. I lie to my teachers all the time. Does that mean I think they're stupid?

Yes, lying to someone about something means you think they are stupid or incapable of handling the truth. For instance, telling a child that their dog ran away when it was in fact run over doesn't mean you think they're stupid so much as you don't believe they can handle the truth. However, if I were to tell you that VegettoEX's real name is Vincent when it says in his signature that it's Michael...well, then I think you're stupid and won't be able to figure out that I'm misleading you.

With FUNimation, particularly with regards to their marketing of the Orange Bricks, they gave us (easily countered) misinformation several times and recanted. Again, I motion towards the 'Rebirth of DragonBall Z' featurette that was shot all to hell by members of this very community. So, either they were stupid or they thought their audience was stupid. And personally, since they're a multimillion dollar corporation with (whether we want to believe it or not) knowledgeable people working for them...I'm banking on the latter.

[Super Sonic]

Although the show's target audience may have been 6-11 year olds, FUNimation was fully aware that their true "audience" were older. They just wanted to sell toys to dumb kids. Because as we all know, no intelligent person over the age of 11 would buy toys because we liked a show that had depth right?

Don't forget that guys over 11 who buy toys for themselves tend to get labeled lifeless nerds who have heart attacks if you take said toys out of their box.

[Gaffer Tape]

As Anonymous Friend said, there's a difference between lying and thinking someone's stupid. IYou don't have to think someone's stupid to lie to them. I lie to my teachers all the time. Does that mean I think they're stupid?

Arrrghhboowah! I just totally do not get this! You are freely acknowledging that FUNimation have lied to you, that they have utilized underhanded and manipulative tactics... and yet you are defending them for doing this! How does this make any sense?! Well, I suppose we're all guilty of this to some degree. From a certain standpoint, we all should have boycotted even the Dragon Boxes based on the company's pisspoor integrity. But we do have to vote with our wallets. And that was a good product. However, we don't forget that this is the same backstabbing company that's been lying out of their asses to its fans for years! How is that defensible? Is it because you apparently see nothing wrong with lying to your teachers, therefore it's okay for everybody to take advantage of each other? Or do you honestly believe it was some altruistic white lie that served the greater good and saved several, nay, dozens of innocent puppies and kittens? Sigh. I'm honestly not trying to make this a personal attack, but I seriously, honestly have a very, very difficult time comprehending that statement or believing that you honestly believe that. So what if the lie might not be because they think we're stupid (which I still very much believe)? It's still a lie, a blatantly disrespectful lie, and you admit that! So can we at least agree that FUNimation has a tendency to not show any respect to its target audience? Please clarify this statement for me!

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Vegeta: "Too bad it's Sunday, those buildings would have been full tomorrow."

This was the first line used to lure the audience into believing that the city Nappa is about to destroy is utterly and totally abandoned. Of course, no sane person would believe this, but FUNimation doesn't expect people to be sane.

Nappa, upon leveling the city: "That area may have been evacuated, but it'll give them something to think about!"

Alright, FUNimation, let me explain why this doesn't make sense: Number one, the pods landed about five minutes ago, and five minutes is, oh, a a couple of DAYS short of the time it would take to evacuate a city. Number two, there was a whole crowd of people gawking at Nappa as, AS, he was doing his attack, and unless they have some sort of magical teleportation device, or they can run two miles per second, they got zapped along with everything else.

Are you trying to insult the intelligence of every last person watching?

FUNi was trying to make the show seem less violent there so kids wouldn't get scared or frightend. FUNi was marketing to 6-11 year old boys which is probably the reason for "It's sunday" and "I can see their parachutes" because as I said before, FUNi didn't want the kiddies to get scared with all the senseless killings.

[rereboy]

FUNi was trying to make the show seem less violent there so kids wouldn't get scared or frightend. FUNi was marketing to 6-11 year old boys which is probably the reason for "It's sunday" and "I can see their parachutes" because as I said before, FUNi didn't want the kiddies to get scared with all the senseless killings.

And that`s not turning the show into something more dumb? Weren`t they underestimating the audience when they thought "omg they won`t be able to handle this if we don`t change it! They won`t understand the senseless killing and they will feel bad!" ?

[caejones]

FUNi was trying to make the show seem less violent there so kids wouldn't get scared or frightend. FUNi was marketing to 6-11 year old boys which is probably the reason for "It's sunday" and "I can see their parachutes" because as I said before, FUNi didn't want the kiddies to get scared with all the senseless killings.

Because 6-to-11-year-old boys never buy products with a great deal of senseless killing, especially of the "all we see is an explosion" sort... -_-
Typically what scares people away is more the sort of thing that actually got left in--like the dinosaur getting killed in Gohan's training, or the violating tentacle monsters of Fake Namek. Actually, my dad was hesitant to let my six-to-eleven-year-old cousin (who's lived with DBZ effectively since birth) watch the Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire movie on the grounds that he's the sort that would be freaked out by some of the things in the underwater portion (I think the "werewolf" from Prisoner of Azkaban freaked him out).
So, like, yeah... "lol there's no such thing as death" doesn't deal with scare-factor.

This has nothing to do with the "another dimention" thing--that could easily have been an attempt to hide the fact that "the next dimention" was a take on the afterlife to avoid offending religious groups.
Death becoming a dirty word, though ("I'll work myself to death..." getting cut = wtf)...
I think the making up stuff to cover up death thing is more insulting than had they just tried to shrug it off. "Too bad it's Sunday" could have been replaced with some ridiculous comment on the architecture or something--they'd still have been downplaying the extreme likelyhood that thousands of people were just killed without having to acknowledge it. The change they went with acknowledged the issue and then ... Eh.

I don't even know what I'm getting at. I need non-cholrinated water.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

FUNi was trying to make the show seem less violent there so kids wouldn't get scared or frightend. FUNi was marketing to 6-11 year old boys which is probably the reason for "It's sunday" and "I can see their parachutes" because as I said before, FUNi didn't want the kiddies to get scared with all the senseless killings.

And that`s not turning the show into something more dumb? Weren`t they underestimating the audience when they thought "omg they won`t be able to handle this if we don`t change it! They won`t understand the senseless killing and they will feel bad!" ?

I wouldn't use "dumb", it's more like "watered down" but you do have a point.


But keep in mind that this was when Saban was distributing Dragon Ball Z, of course they were going to tone stuff down. When FUNi took over this changed. I remember the first or second episode of season 3 when Vegeta slammed his knee on Burter's neck, uncut and everything.

[desirecampbell]

But keep in mind that this was when Saban was distributing Dragon Ball Z, of course they were going to tone stuff down. When FUNi took over this changed. I remember the first or second episode of season 3 when Vegeta slammed his knee on Burter's neck, uncut and everything.

Again, we've been over this - yes Saban imposed some censorship early on. But 'Season 3' onward, it was all FUNimation's doing to, let's not mince words here, dumb down the show. Changing plot points, dialogue, whole character motivation, etc. And when they went back and redubbed the earlier episodes they didn't change any of those decisions. They kept the visuals intact, but continued to cut out any mention of death, anything even passingly religious, huge character motivation changes, etc.

Saying they were "watering down" the show so children wouldn't get scared is bullshit, and you know it's bullshit. Sure, maybe kids would be scared of mass murder (like the saiyans arrival) but they're not scared of death being called 'death', they're not scared of dramatic silences, they're not scared of Goku being not-Superman. The only things these changes "watered down" was the intelligence and subtlety of the show. And that's treating the audience like idiots.

[Rocketman]

Death becoming a dirty word, though ("I'll work myself to death..." getting cut = wtf)...
I think the making up stuff to cover up death thing is more insulting than had they just tried to shrug it off.

Spider-Man (1994-1998) had largely the same restrictions. Can't say "death/die/kill" (though they did a few rare times), can't punch people, can't use realistic guns, can't harm pigeons when he jumps on rooftops.... Wiki says it was because some violent cartoons were getting banned at the time.

[jamie_sweeney]

Yeah, wasn't there some kind of backlash in the early 90's, where loads of angry parents were speaking out against the "violence" in Power Rangers? I guess companies putting out shows aimed at kids would try to be real careful after that.

Guess Saban would the the common factor there with PR and DBZ during that period.

[Kaboom]

Spider-Man (1994-1998) had largely the same restrictions. Can't say "death/die/kill" (though they did a few rare times), can't punch people, can't use realistic guns, can't harm pigeons when he jumps on rooftops.... Wiki says it was because some violent cartoons were getting banned at the time.

Yeah, as much as I still love the show for the major nostalgia factor, it's clear when you look back on it now just how restricted it was.

The new Spectacular Spider-Man toon is superior in practically every way.

[Adamant]

The difference, of course, was that Spider-man was made with those restrictions in mind, making it possible to write around them rather than editing an already existing series to pieces to remove all traces of "unsuitable elements".

The "Spider-man can not punch people" restriction is why Spidey went up against Spider-slayers twice so early on, for instance. "Robots" are not "people" (and the slayers weren't humanoid either), so he was allowed to punch them.

Though you'd have to wonder how they thought they could pull off Morbius without making him overly stupid. Why even bother?

[the_abberration]

FUNi was trying to make the show seem less violent there so kids wouldn't get scared or frightend. FUNi was marketing to 6-11 year old boys which is probably the reason for "It's sunday" and "I can see their parachutes" because as I said before, FUNi didn't want the kiddies to get scared with all the senseless killings.

Yeah, by having a show with a four and half (dub age) year old boy fighting alongside grown adults. And IIRC later, don't they go on about how Reacoom broke Gohan's neck? Way to avoid the violence.

As far as destroying the buildings, for someone to make the choice to dub those lines, they had to assume those same 6-11 year old boys were "smart" enough to know that people could be killed. So saying otherwise, would be insulting their intellegence. They could have just as easily not drawn attention to the matter be saying nothing.

Also, would these be the same 6-11 year old boys who were probably playing Mortal Kombat at the local arcade? Yeah I can see you point, that would scare them never being exposed to senseless killing before.

FUNimation was employing censorship methods that were used during the 60's - 70's. And while they kinda knew the children of the 90's were more in touch with violence and death, they still chose to treat them as if they had not evolved mentally.

Spider-Man (1994-1998) had largely the same restrictions. Can't say "death/die/kill" (though they did a few rare times), can't punch people, can't use realistic guns, can't harm pigeons when he jumps on rooftops.... Wiki says it was because some violent cartoons were getting banned at the time.

And yet on the same token, Batman: TAS circa 1992 pushed the envelopes with violence, guns, Batman threatening criminals, death, etc. and not only sold toys, but won Emmy's for it's dark and gritty portrayal of the character. All the while staying loyal to it's source material.

[Godo]

No, Funimation doesn't think that it's audience is stupid. They think that they are mindless bags o' money that are easy to please.
I mean, the majority of all fanbases are. Make a new game, add two new characters, use the same design and fighting engine, add a "2" after the title, and the fans will go hunting it down and buying it.
And they know that people still will buy it if it sucks. That's where we have the newbie fans and the truly hardcore fans that have to own everything about Dragonball in the picture, which is why games like Sagas and that Mortal Combat port made by Funimation was released.
They have bought rights to use and distribute a successful name, which by just people uttering it catches peoples' interest, and they know it.
There is no way that they bought Dragonball just to make it avalible for everyone to enjoy.
They think we are stupid, they know some of us are stupid, and that's why they fuck our wallets over and over again with promises.
Ever heard the tale of Little Red Hood? It warns us to be careful to look closely at things, because just because of that it looks like Grandma, it doesn't need to be grandma.
Yet, people are still defending the Big Bad Wolf, and holding his hand, letting him to devour their mind and wallets.
We can have quality if we demand it, yet some people don't give a fuck about getting a half-assed product.

[Rory]

The new Spectacular Spider-Man toon is superior in practically every way.

No need to small text it Kaboom, Spectacular Spider-Man is fucking amazing.

[Bussani]

Funimation doesn't think that it's audience is stupid. They think that they are mindless

Oh, okay.

Wait...