Why Toriyama Doesn't Want Continue Dragon Ball Again?

[jordanator]

Well I am right, according to this ''fan made'' wiki. But it's all about opinions. This is my opinion(well, actually my opinion agrees with this theory), and I am not enforcing it on anyone. You have your own opinions, and probably feel the same way that I do.
Anyway, it says that Goku/Vegeta Jr. is 1/16th saiyan (I think), but, I try not to believe it.
I theorise that Pan(or whoever it is) meets a new saiyan, which lads to her offspring becoming ''more saiyan''.

[BobZ]

This went a bit into offtopic.

However, it really is good that Akira-sensei has not continued Dragon Ball. Why?
Seriously, do we want long never-ending animes with fillers and more than 500 episodes? As much as like/love the holy trinity at the moment (OP, Bleach, Naruto), they are way drawn out. Each one of them manga-wise could have finished a long tme ago, but the authors kept coming with new ideas because they're popular and... well... they print money.

I don't want this with DB and I'm glad that Akira-sama has drawn the line. Some one-shots, anime specials, movies and mini spin-off series would be greatly appreciated however. And DBO is indeed a big opportunity for that. They could basically create a new anime series based on it and if they make it right, it would blow away everything in its way. But that's too unlikely to happen. It is a nice idea though and makes me happy to think about it and imagine the possibilities.

[Kendamu]

I consider "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" to be a "continuation" of sorts that's optionally canon. I'm already chappy with that. If I can get another special like that in the next five years I would be even happier.

[SSVegetto]

This went a bit into offtopic.

However, it really is good that Akira-sensei has not continued Dragon Ball. Why?
Seriously, do we want long never-ending animes with fillers and more than 500 episodes? As much as like/love the holy trinity at the moment (OP, Bleach, Naruto), they are way drawn out. Each one of them manga-wise could have finished a long tme ago, but the authors kept coming with new ideas because they're popular and... well... they print money.

I don't want this with DB and I'm glad that Akira-sama has drawn the line. Some one-shots, anime specials, movies and mini spin-off series would be greatly appreciated however. And DBO is indeed a big opportunity for that. They could basically create a new anime series based on it and if they make it right, it would blow away everything in its way. But that's too unlikely to happen. It is a nice idea though and makes me happy to think about it and imagine the possibilities.

Well, DB and DBZ is about 444 episodes in total. Naruto and Naruto Shippuuden is about is at 386 episodes. And if you want to you can minus about 70 episodes of filler in Naruto , so it would be about 316. It's not even really close to being over 500 episodes. You can't really say Naruto is really drawn out compared to DB. Because compared to Dragonball its not still not drawn out. Manga wise, Naruto surpasses Dragonball I think. I will tell you this though. Naruto better be at least 60% to 70% done. Or yes, they are just dragging it out forever, which I think is dumb.

But as for Akira Toriyama continuing Dragonball, instead of going forward. Why not go backwards and have a nice back story of all the stuff the Saiyans did? That would be a lot of fun. Where the Saiyans came from. How Freeza finally appeared into the picture. Otherwise it would get repetitive if Toriyama went forward.

And the Super Saiyan theory about Pan. My opinion is if Goten and Trunks can go Super Saiyan without basically any training or fighting. Then why the heck didn't she go Super Saiyan? Is it because she is a female?

He didn't. All he ever said on the matter was that he couldn't decide what a female SSJ would like like, so he never designed one.

Did he really say that? What was so hard about it? Give her gold hair, and green eyes when she transforms? This comes down to three theories. Either 1. She can't become Super Saiyan because she is a female. or 2. She can't become Super Saiyan because she is only 1/4 Saiyan blood. Or 3. She could but Toriyama was lazy?

Because I don't believe she needs extra training for it. When Trunks and Goten didn't. She would have transformed in GT in many situations. Otherwise yeah, you couldn't have any potential with Dragonball story with all these new Saiyans that are like 1/16 of a Saiyan.

Personally, I think they should take that fan manga that one guy did, and make that a anime. That seemed interesting. I don't think Toei needs Akira Toriayama to make a new manga for them to make a new Dragon Ball anime either. But I guess they are too busy right now milking Kai right now rather to have any originality whatsoever.

I consider "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" to be a "continuation" of sorts that's optionally canon. I'm already chappy with that. If I can get another special like that in the next five years I would be even happier.

I wasn't happy with this. Well, sort of. It was really fun to see the characters and for some slight comedy. But it wasn't serious, like the other DBZ movies were. This isn't good enough to satisfy me if they kept releasing stuff like this every 5 years.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

No, Toriyama has never commented on female Super Saiyans.

[Kendamu]

I consider "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" to be a "continuation" of sorts that's optionally canon. I'm already chappy with that. If I can get another special like that in the next five years I would be even happier.

I wasn't happy with this. Well, sort of. It was really fun to see the characters and for some slight comedy. But it wasn't series. This isn't good enough to satisfy me if they kept releasing stuff like this every 5 years.

Did you mean to say "serious" or "a series"?

Either way, I'm glad it's not a series. I don't want to see another series. It arguably went on for too long as it is now. I'm also glad that it wasn't serious because, quite frankly, by the time you're that powerful and have saved the entirety of existence (both the living universe, the Afterlife, and some sort of Godly planet thing) there's really not much more you can do to be serious and still have it taken seriously.

[SSVegetto]

I consider "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" to be a "continuation" of sorts that's optionally canon. I'm already chappy with that. If I can get another special like that in the next five years I would be even happier.

I wasn't happy with this. Well, sort of. It was really fun to see the characters and for some slight comedy. But it wasn't series. This isn't good enough to satisfy me if they kept releasing stuff like this every 5 years.

Did you mean to say "serious" or "a series"?

Either way, I'm glad it's not a series. I don't want to see another series. It arguably went on for too long as it is now. I'm also glad that it wasn't serious because, quite frankly, by the time you're that powerful and have saved the entirety of existence (both the living universe, the Afterlife, and some sort of Godly planet thing) there's really not much more you can do to be serious and still have it taken seriously.

Whoops, I meant serious. Like the other DBZ movies were. It was just a foe they could easily beat. There wasn't really a plot. I was hoping for a movie, with a serious villain. If they can't move forward to do another series. Then they could just move backwards to do another series. Like I stated before, they could do a story about Saiyajins before Goku was even born and expand that into a Dragon Ball series. Call the anime Saiyans or what not. Where all the Saiyans came from, how Freeza came into the picture. The tuffles, etc. They can introduce a bunch of a different characters. Toei could do that with Dragonball possibly even without Akira Toriyama's work if he really is retired.

No, Toriyama has never commented on female Super Saiyans.

Sigh, one person says he did from the daizenshuu book or whatever. Then someone says he never commented about it. Well, if it's not in this so called book. That still isn't proof that Toriyama has never talked about female Super Saiyanjins. I'm sure the thought has occurred into his brain about it. And he talked about it with someone. So what's the scoop. Is it in the book or not?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Because he's retired and doesn't want the pressure of having to create a new Manga series with new deadlines. I'm glad he isn't continuing Dragon Ball, it went on for long enough.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Toriyama already has enough money to make off the royalties from the work he's already done. No need to do more.

[Dayspring]

And the Super Saiyan theory about Pan. My opinion is if Goten and Trunks can go Super Saiyan without basically any training or fighting. Then why the heck didn't she go Super Saiyan? Is it because she is a female?

He didn't. All he ever said on the matter was that he couldn't decide what a female SSJ would like like, so he never designed one.

Did he really say that? What was so hard about it? Give her gold hair, and green eyes when she transforms? This comes down to three theories. Either 1. She can't become Super Saiyan because she is a female. or 2. She can't become Super Saiyan because she is only 1/4 Saiyan blood. Or 3. She could but Toriyama was lazy?

Because I don't believe she needs extra training for it. When Trunks and Goten didn't. She would have transformed in GT in many situations. Otherwise yeah, you couldn't have any potential with Dragonball story with all these new Saiyans that are like 1/16 of a Saiyan.

It was the hair, IIRC, that made it hard for him to picture how it would look like in SSJ. Which I personally find to be BS, but whatever.

Also, the idea that she can't comes from the fact that the daizenshuu says she hasn't. Considering she's only four at her debut, that's not saying a lot regarding whether she can or not. I've never driven in the US. Doesn't mean I'm forever incapable of doing so in the future. Same applies to manga Pan. GT Pan is just bad writing in regards to her never going SSJ.

[Herms]

It was the hair, IIRC, that made it hard for him to picture how it would look like in SSJ. Which I personally find to be BS, but whatever.

That's what he supposedly said, but I've never seen any actual source given for that or any other statement from Toriyama concerning female Super Saiyans.

[Kendamu]

Toei could do that with Dragonball possibly even without Akira Toriyama's work if he really is retired.

I'm not really a fan of GT. I'd rather they not try and do some sort of ongoing story with little-to-no input from Toriyama.

[Bussani]

Well I am right, according to this ''fan made'' wiki. But it's all about opinions.

"Toriyama said this" isn't an opinion, though. It's just wrong. But sure, you can believe that you need more than 1/4th Saiyan blood to go Super Saiyan if you want.

Anyway, it says that Goku/Vegeta Jr. is 1/16th saiyan (I think), but, I try not to believe it.
I theorise that Pan(or whoever it is) meets a new saiyan, which lads to her offspring becoming ''more saiyan''.

Goku Jr. would be 1/64th Saiyan, assuming no new Saiyans appeared. Your theory would only work if his mother or father were full blooded Saiyans. I guess that's possible, but Vegeta Jr., too? Doesn't seem likely to me, but then, this is GT we're talking about.

[Xyex]

And the Super Saiyan theory about Pan. My opinion is if Goten and Trunks can go Super Saiyan without basically any training or fighting. Then why the heck didn't she go Super Saiyan? Is it because she is a female?

We know females can transform, the guides don't refute it and neither does DBO. My personal theory is that Gohan's Ultimate 'power-up' thing is the cause. He effectively lost his power to go SSJ (even if GT did give it back to him) so it could have had an effect on her, stopping her from inheriting the form like Goten and Trunks did. And then she just never got pushed right to reach it during GT.

Did he really say that? What was so hard about it? Give her gold hair, and green eyes when she transforms? This comes down to three theories. Either 1. She can't become Super Saiyan because she is a female. or 2. She can't become Super Saiyan because she is only 1/4 Saiyan blood. Or 3. She could but Toriyama was lazy?

Because I don't believe she needs extra training for it. When Trunks and Goten didn't. She would have transformed in GT in many situations.

Yeah, he said he couldn't really imagine what that would look like, or something along those lines. Something about SSJ being 'maculine' in look and not knowing how to convert that to a female or something. I dunno.

And Pan really wasn't given the chance to transform in GT. None of her situations where quite desperate enough, and if they were something always happened to derail the situation.

I wasn't happy with this. Well, sort of. It was really fun to see the characters and for some slight comedy. But it wasn't serious, like the other DBZ movies were. This isn't good enough to satisfy me if they kept releasing stuff like this every 5 years.

It wasn't supposed to be serious, though. It was continuing in the same vein as the Buu Saga, and most of the earlier bits of Dragonball. People need to remember that Toriyama's a comedy person first, and an action person second. The action in Dragonball got away from him and took over for a while, but since the Buu saga he's been back to doing comical stuff. It's his forte.

'sides, how serious can something be when the villains are out classed by an 8 and 9 year old, and the hero of the story is Gotenks? XD

Goku Jr. would be 1/64th Saiyan, assuming no new Saiyans appeared. Your theory would only work if his mother or father were full blooded Saiyans. I guess that's possible, but Vegeta Jr., too? Doesn't seem likely to me, but then, this is GT we're talking about.

1/64th? I thought he was 1/32nd? That he was her great grandson, not great great grandson?

Goku (1/1) > Gohan (1/2) > Pan (1/4) > Unknown (1/8) > Unknown (1/16) > Goku Jr (1/32).

Then again, wasn't there a family tree thing done by Toriyama (SEG?) that showed Goku and Vegeta's lines merging somewhere (and Ti­en and Lunch having a kid)? So he could be more than that.

[Bussani]

1/64th? I thought he was 1/32nd? That he was her great grandson, not great great grandson?

Nope, it's great great.


Image courtesy of Casual Matt.

I believe they also say that he's Goku's great great great great grandson when they introduce him at the tournament.

Then again, wasn't there a family tree thing done by Toriyama (SEG?) that showed Goku and Vegeta's lines merging somewhere (and Ti­en and Lunch having a kid)? So he could be more than that.

I don't remember exactly how it went, but that may have had less generations than GT went with, too. And even if you merge the two families, without another pure blooded Saiyan thrown into the mix, getting anything more than 1/4th after several generations is tricky.

[Xyex]

Then again, wasn't there a family tree thing done by Toriyama (SEG?) that showed Goku and Vegeta's lines merging somewhere (and Ti­en and Lunch having a kid)? So he could be more than that.

I don't remember exactly how it went, but that may have had less generations than GT went with, too. And even if you merge the two families, without another pure blooded Saiyan thrown into the mix, getting anything more than 1/4th after several generations is tricky.

There may have been, I only vaguely remember it. And yeah, getting the concentration up again would be next to impossible, but an early enough mix could stop it from dropping as fast. Like that huge fan paring of Trunks and Pan would produce a 1/3rd (right? I suck at fraction math) Saiya-jin.

[Bussani]

There may have been, I only vaguely remember it. And yeah, getting the concentration up again would be next to impossible, but an early enough mix could stop it from dropping as fast. Like that huge fan paring of Trunks and Pan would produce a 1/3rd (right? I suck at fraction math) Saiya-jin.

Pan and Trunks should make a 3/8th (pretty much right between 1/4th and 1/2th) Saiyan. If his/her partner was human, though, then the next generation would already be down to 3/16ths, so it barely slows it down at all in the long run (Goku Jr. would be 3/64th instead of 1/64th?).

[Herms]

Then again, wasn't there a family tree thing done by Toriyama (SEG?) that showed Goku and Vegeta's lines merging somewhere (and Ti­en and Lunch having a kid)?

Supposedly Toriyama gave his ideas somewhere about what he would have made Vegeta Jr.’s family tree, had it been up to him. This rumor was mentioned on Japanese Wikipedia, but there's no official source that I’m aware of (man, I should start a list of these things). Anyway, Toriyama’s supposed family tree doesn’t have Goku and Vegeta’s lines merging, but instead has Vegeta’s line merge with pretty much everyone else’s. Here’s a diagram, courtesy of Olivier Hague:

Code: Select all

            Kulilin
             ┃
             ┣--------- Marron
             ┃           ┃
            No.18         ┣--------- ???
                          ┃           ┃
                         ???          ┃
King Vegeta                           ┣--------- ???
 ┃                      ???           ┃           ┃
 ┣--------- Vegeta       ┃           ┃           ┃
 ┃           ┃           ┣--------- ???          ┃
???          ┃           ┃                       ┣--------- Vegeta Jr.
             ┣--------┳ Bra         ???          ┃
Dr. Brief    ┃        ┃              ┃           ┃
 ┃           ┃        ┗ Trunks       ┣--------- ???
 ┣--------- Bulma        ┃           ┃
 ┃                       ┣--------- ???
Panchy      Lunch        ┃
             ┃           ┃
             ┣--------- ???
             ┃
            Tenshinhan

[Xyex]

Anyway, Toriyama’s supposed family tree doesn’t have Goku and Vegeta’s lines merging, but instead has Vegeta’s line merge with pretty much everyone else’s. Here’s a diagram, courtesy of Olivier Hague:

Code: Select all

            Kulilin
             ┃
             ┣--------- Marron
             ┃           ┃
            No.18         ┣--------- ???
                          ┃           ┃
                         ???          ┃
King Vegeta                           ┣--------- ???
 ┃                      ???           ┃           ┃
 ┣--------- Vegeta       ┃           ┃           ┃
 ┃           ┃           ┣--------- ???          ┃
???          ┃           ┃                       ┣--------- Vegeta Jr.
             ┣--------┳ Bra         ???          ┃
Dr. Brief    ┃        ┃              ┃           ┃
 ┃           ┃        ┗ Trunks       ┣--------- ???
 ┣--------- Bulma        ┃           ┃
 ┃                       ┣--------- ???
Panchy      Lunch        ┃
             ┃           ┃
             ┣--------- ???
             ┃
            Tenshinhan

Ah-ha, right, ok. I knew I remember some sort of 'merger' of lines, it was just the Trunks and Bra lines coming back together that I was thinking of.

[jordanator]

"Toriyama said this" isn't an opinion though. It's just wrong. But sure, you can believe that you need more than 1/4th Saiyan blood to go Super Saiyan if you want.

Fine. This is not my opinion. Instead, I agree with this statement, and I believe it. One good reason I believe this, is because that it mostly applies in real life. Is that okay? As in, do you understand my logic behind it?
Okay, how is it "just wrong''? Now, that is your opinion.

Goku Jr. would be 1/64th Saiyan, assuming no new Saiyans appeared. Your theory would only work if his mother or father were full blooded Saiyans

I haven't thought as far in to it as you have, and I do not intend to. By doing that, I reveal new plot holes to myself, which makes me enjoy the show less as I can't get it out of my head, generally leading to me thinking the show isn't as good as I thought. I only thought that theory up quickly, as I only wanted an answer that made me feel content.