Dragonball Vs. Non Dragonball

[Savage68]

GT is non-canon. If that's fair game, we could also be using Silver Age Superman, and that always makes these topics much worse.

Well....
We really don't want to make things worse...

So, Goku SSJ3 VS The Current Superman-
Sound fair?

That certainly makes the most sense.

[Bussani]

Canon is a complicated thing. You can't just say, "This is the main continuity, so it's canon and everything else isn't," in every case. Something has to be canon to something else. As such, there are multiple Superman canons, and it makes sense to decide which one you'd be talking about. Defaulting to the current comic version is reasonable enough, though...I guess.

That said, is Silver Age Superman really "non-canon" to the current comics...? It's because of him that the current universe even exists, and there are still other characters from the Silver Age that have survived being written out of existence. It's kind of--not exactly, mind you, but kind of like calling Trunks' timeline non-canon after he creates the new timeline.

Popeye would definitely win over Krillin. Popeye's a gag character and therefore can't truly be defeated.

Yeah... Gag characters defy reality. Popeye with spinach is as strong as he needs to be. If filler Mr. Popo can stop two Super Saiyans, then what chance does Kuririn have against Popeye?

So as you can see, Mr. Satan could beat any of these foes, let alone Goku.

...Wow.

Well....
We really don't want to make things worse...

So, Goku SSJ3 VS The Current Superman-
Sound fair?

Maybe now the real debate can begin...?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the current Superman lift skyscrapers, fly anywhere on Earth in seconds, and survive flying through a star which is the type that takes away his powers? I mean, ignoring the fact that he's powered by radiation from a yellow star, being able to enter something that hot and with that much pressure and just not die is some insane physical resistance.

[Savage68]

That said, is Silver Age Superman really "non-canon" to the current comics...? It's because of him that the current universe even exists, and there are still other characters from the Silver Age that have survived being written out of existence.

Beings that reside outside of the 3rd dimension (Apokolips, New Genesis), sure. They were merely annoyed by the events that took place in Crisis, and they interact with the current Superman on a fairly regular basis. But the version of Superman from before the Crisis and most other characters, along with all of their histories is no longer applicable to the only timeline/dimension/state of being that matters in the DCU. Silver Age has been dead and gone for about 25 years now, and it's only been revived in self-contained Elseworlds novels. This isn't to say the Crisis itself has been ignored, since some characters that protected themselves from it made appearances in recent years. But, as you'd expect, the current DCU isn't the one that they once existed in.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the current Superman lift skyscrapers, fly anywhere on Earth in seconds, and survive flying through a star which is the type that takes away his powers?

He can. He just doesn't perform these feats on a level anywhere near being labeled as "consistent". You can't count on these abilities for him if he always magically forgets that he can use them in battles. And if he was really as powerful as some make him out to be, if would take nothing less than a god of gods to even stun him.

He's also been knocked unconscious by Kalibak, knocked unconscious from a planet-busting attack, and knocked unconscious from destroying a Moon. Roshi > Superman?

[Bussani]

Beings that reside outside of the 3rd dimension (Apokolips, New Genesis), sure. They were merely annoyed by the events that took place in Crisis, and they interact with the current Superman on a fairly regular basis. But the version of Superman from before the Crisis and most other characters, along with all of their histories is no longer applicable to the only timeline/dimension/state of being that matters in the DCU. Silver Age has been dead and gone for about 25 years now, and it's only been revived in self-contained Elseworlds novels. This isn't to say the Crisis itself has been ignored, since some characters that protected themselves from it made appearances in recent years. But, as you'd expect, the current DCU isn't the one that they once existed in.

Yeah, that's about the half of it. But in a cosmic sort of sense, the silver age did happen, so "non-canon" seems like a weird thing to call it to me. I'll go with "not applicable", though.

He can. He just doesn't perform these feats on a level anywhere near being labeled as "consistent". You can't count on these abilities for him if he always magically forgets that he can use them in battles.

That is very true, and it's a difficult discussion if we're going to go into the consistency of things. But...if we start picking and choosing what's applicable and what's not based on that sort of thing, then we can pretty much make whatever we want happen.

Superman's inconsistency comes from the needs of the author (which is unfortunately similar to GT Goku); if you're going to match him up against people that blow up planets, it makes sense to me to include, or atleast mention his most outrageous feats, otherwise what's the point?

[Savage68]

Well, that's why I never like bringing them up in vs. topics. A character's highest and most outrageous feats are never really a good representative of how strong they are; A perfect example of this is the Silver Surfer. This guy's skin is stated by Galactus himself to be impenetrable to "the most powerful supernovas", or something like that. He was destroying a planet in Annihilation just by releasing his energy. He teaches others how to create miniature suns, and flies at lightspeed inside of black holes.

But when it's time for him to fight, he gets taken down by the likes of Thing, Super Skrull and...random Mexicans.

[Herms]

Popeye would definitely win over Krillin. Popeye's a gag character and therefore can't truly be defeated.

The real question is who would win in a fight, Superman or Arale?

[Blue]

Better question, Suppaman or Superman?

[KakaR0T]

The real question is who would win in a fight, Superman or Arale?

My money is on Arale

[Bussani]

Well, that's why I never like bringing them up in vs. topics. A character's highest and most outrageous feats are never really a good representative of how strong they are; A perfect example of this is the Silver Surfer. This guy's skin is stated by Galactus himself to be impenetrable to "the most powerful supernovas", or something like that. He was destroying a planet in Annihilation just by releasing his energy. He teaches others how to create miniature suns, and flies at lightspeed inside of black holes.

But when it's time for him to fight, he gets taken down by the likes of Thing, Super Skrull and...random Mexicans.

Just like GT Goku losing to giant space worms and forgetting about Super Saiyan. It sucks when an author makes a character weaker just because the plot demands it. I guess that makes me more inclined to ignore the plot-required-stupidity/weakness than to ignore the big feats. Of course, the counter argument to that is that some of the big feats are just plot-required-godhax...so yeah.

Basically, if we're the ones coming up with the fight, it's up to us whether we let random Mexicans overpower these demigodish guys.

[JulieYBM]

On the subject Gokû v. Superman, the modern Superman and Super Saiyan 3 Gokû against the original Majin Boo is typically the 'preffered' discussion. Both seem to have enough drawbacks that they might be comparable to each other. You'd think DC and Shueisha could've gotten something together by now and done an official battle. :p

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the current Superman lift skyscrapers, fly anywhere on Earth in seconds, and survive flying through a star which is the type that takes away his powers? I mean, ignoring the fact that he's powered by radiation from a yellow star, being able to enter something that hot and with that much pressure and just not die is some insane physical resistance.

During Infinite Crisis (2005-2006) he and Superman of Earth-Two (the original Superman from the 1930s-1950s) were able to carry Superboy-Prime (from the Pre-Crisis Earth-Prime, meaning he was about as powerful as Superman-One from the Silver Age) through a field of Kryptonite and a red sun. Of course, he lost his powers after doing that for about a year. Here's a full detailing of his modern era powers.

[UristtheGreat]

Popeye would definitely win over Krillin. Popeye's a gag character and therefore can't truly be defeated.

If that's the case then Team Rocket could beat the shit out of the Z-Fighters.

[Kendamu]

Popeye would definitely win over Krillin. Popeye's a gag character and therefore can't truly be defeated.

If that's the case then Team Rocket could beat the shit out of the Z-Fighters.

Maybe after several hundred rounds of "blasting off again" they might be tired enough to be beaten. Haha!

[Kid Buu]

Popeye would definitely win over Krillin. Popeye's a gag character and therefore can't truly be defeated.

If that's the case then Team Rocket could beat the shit out of the Z-Fighters.

Maybe after several hundred rounds of "blasting off again" they might be tired enough to be beaten. Haha!

Next match:

Emperor Pilaf, Shu, & Mai

vs

Jesse, James, & Meowth

[KakaR0T]

Next match:

Emperor Pilaf, Shu, & Mai

vs

Jesse, James, & Meowth

I would say Jesse, James, and Meowth because I feel they can work better as a team. I think Shu and Mai really hate Pilaf deep down but can't do anything since he's the boss and he'd probably not want to get his own hands dirty anyway. I don't think there's much teamwork there.

[Bussani]

Popeye would definitely win over Krillin. Popeye's a gag character and therefore can't truly be defeated.

If that's the case then Team Rocket could beat the shit out of the Z-Fighters.

Team Rocket aren't the sort of gag characters that win, though. If Popeye is like Bugs Bunny, then Team Rocket are like Daffy Duck. And not the unbeatable war-time Daffy Duck, either.

[hui43210]

So as you can see, Mr. Satan could beat any of these foes, let alone Goku.

...Wow.

I said what I said and I mean it darn it! I despise Superman and most Western superheroes while I love Dragonball and most Anime/Manga. Well except for GT. Now I thought there would be a more general consensus on a message board such as this but apparently not.

[Makaioshin]

So as you can see, Mr. Satan could beat any of these foes, let alone Goku.

...Wow.

I said what I said and I mean it darn it! I despise Superman and most Western superheroes while I love Dragonball and most Anime/Manga. Well except for GT. Now I thought there would be a more general consensus on a message board such as this but apparently not.

You can despise him all you want but that doesn't make him weaker than Mr. Satan.

[Bussani]

I said what I said and I mean it darn it! I despise Superman and most Western superheroes while I love Dragonball and most Anime/Manga. Well except for GT. Now I thought there would be a more general consensus on a message board such as this but apparently not.

That's not very logical.

[JulieYBM]

I said what I said and I mean it darn it! I despise Superman and most Western superheroes while I love Dragonball and most Anime/Manga. Well except for GT. Now I thought there would be a more general consensus on a message board such as this but apparently not.

That's not very logical.

Yeah. We have quite a few DC and Marvel fans here, last I checked. And Star Trek and Star Wars fans, too (if that counts?)

[The Time Traveller]

I'm guessing around half of us at least read and collect comic books, I collect Batman, Green Lantern and the new Flash comics, I figured there'd be more of em here.

And isn't Meri a huge fan of the X-Men?