Dragonball GT: not so bad after all

[SSJSteve]

Originally, Funi skipped the first 16 episodes of GT because they didn't have enough ACKSHUN, replaced them with a one-episode "recap" showing the story up to that point, then released them later as "The Lost Episodes", when they were never really lost to begin with.

Oh, right. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Goku100xKamehameha]

Originally, Funi skipped the first 16 episodes of GT because they didn't have enough ACKSHUN, replaced them with a one-episode "recap" showing the story up to that point, then released them later as "The Lost Episodes", when they were never really lost to begin with.

Oh, right. Thanks for clearing that up.

So you don't aware of The Lost Episodes before!?

[SSJSteve]

Originally, Funi skipped the first 16 episodes of GT because they didn't have enough ACKSHUN, replaced them with a one-episode "recap" showing the story up to that point, then released them later as "The Lost Episodes", when they were never really lost to begin with.

Oh, right. Thanks for clearing that up.

So you don't aware of The Lost Episodes before!?

I knew about the "Lost Episodes", I had seen the DVDs on Amazon.co.uk. I didn't know what they were and I never really thought about asking.

[Perfect]

Sure the animation was pretty good, but the logic contradicted Z way too much.
The writing wasn't even decent, GT is just awful.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

GT doesn't suck, despite what the "hardcore" fans on this forum have to say. Yes, it has some plotholes. But that doesn't necessarily make it bad. Thinking a show is bad just because it has a few plotholes is a fucking stupid mentality to have.



Also, GT doesn't have bland writing. What? Just because Toriyama didn't write the story, all of a sudden it's bland? Bullshit. Okay, the writing in GT isn't as good as it is in Z and DB. We can all agree on that, but it's not bland. GT's story is fun and exciting to watch. Especially the Evil Dragons arc and Gokū's climatic battle against Li Shinron. Even the Ultimate Dragon Balls arc was enjoyable and kind of a throwback to the early DB arcs.



Furthermore, I'm really not getting the "GT fucked the characters/changed their personalities" arguement. I've seen all of GT, and everyone acts as they normally would. Gokū was still Gokū, Trunks was still Trunks etc. If anyone wants to actually give some damn evidence to back up that stupid claim, that would be appreciated. Yes, some characters get more action that others, but that doesn't mean they got "screwed".



GT is a fun and enjoyable Anime to watch. It has a few plotholes and the story wasn't written by Toriyama, but I recommend that every Dragon Ball fan see it.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

I don't think anybody says that GT sucks only because of the giant list of plot holes; that's just part of a list of reason. It is inheriently hard to enjoy something that doesn't make sense, though. At least to me. For instance, when I watch the #17 arc and Freeza and Cell say they're invincible because they're already dead, I can't take it seriously, because I know in the back of my mind that Goku says something completely different in the Z anime.

But ignoring plot holes, why don't I like GT? Because it's boring as shit. It's from the people that gave us DBZ filler! It's like watching Fake Namek and Bulma and the Crab for 64 freakin' episodes! It has nothing to do with Akira Toriyama, or being canonical, I simply don't. enjoy. watching. it.

[Cipher]

It has nothing to do with Akira Toriyama, or being canonical, I simply don't. enjoy. watching. it.

No movies or TV specials then either, right?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

But ignoring plot holes, why don't I like GT? Because it's boring as shit. It's from the people that gave us DBZ filler! It's like watching Fake Namek and Bulma and the Crab for 64 freakin' episodes! It has nothing to do with Akira Toriyama, or being canonical, I simply don't. enjoy. watching. it.

That's fine and dandy, but comparing "Fake Namek" and "Bulma and a crab" to GT, is stupid. GT is more interesting and serves a purpose, instead of just being made to fill in time.

[jjgp1112]

It has nothing to do with Akira Toriyama, or being canonical, I simply don't. enjoy. watching. it.

No movies or TV specials then either, right?

I think he means that his enjoyment has nothing to do with the fact that Toriyama wasn't involved or that there were plotholes.

Originally, Funi skipped the first 16 episodes of GT because they didn't have enough ACKSHUN, replaced them with a one-episode "recap" showing the story up to that point, then released them later as "The Lost Episodes", when they were never really lost to begin with.

To be fair, that first arc was quite horrible

[Cipher]

I think he means that his enjoyment has nothing to do with the fact that Toriyama wasn't involved or that there were plotholes.

Oops. I incorrectly read that as "If it has nothing to do with ..."

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

It has nothing to do with Akira Toriyama, or being canonical, I simply don't. enjoy. watching. it.

No movies or TV specials then either, right?

I actually enjoy quite a few of the DBZ movies, mostly because the plot and fight scenes were done a lot better than GT. I don't know if GT simply had different people writing the scenarios, or if there were different directors, but somehow, some of the movies turned out watchable. Burdock special was amazing, Trunks special was pretty good too (of course, that one was based on the manga anyway). I haven't seen the GT special, but I hear it was actually watchable?

But yeah, the fight scenes in GT especially are a real turn off. Just poor choreography or whatever. And the characters just seem like such dumb fighters! (e.g. not turning Super when doing so would bail them out of trouble, Goku continuing to shoot Kamehamehas at #17 like a dumbass, etc.)

@Piccolo Daimaoh: Is it more accurate to say that Dragon Ball GT is like one giant Garlic Jr. arc?

@jjgp1112: Exactly! Even if I just watch GT for GT (i.e. ignoring that there ever was a Dragon Ball manga), I'm simply not entertained. And if I'm not entertained, Dragon Ball fan or not, even loving Goku and co. so much, I can't say, "Yeah, I like this show."

[Bussani]

What I'm mostly getting from Songohan619's posts is that GT isn't so bad if you lower your expectations enough. That's kind of true of anything bad, though...?

Even if I just watch GT for GT (i.e. ignoring that there ever was a Dragon Ball manga), I'm simply not entertained. And if I'm not entertained, Dragon Ball fan or not, even loving Goku and co. so much, I can't say, "Yeah, I like this show."

This is mostly how I feel. GT is interesting, at least on paper...but I just don't like how it's executed. Maybe it's easier to like coming straight off the anime versions of DB and DBZ, but I usually stick to the manga, and GT just has this very different feel to it for me. It's hard to put into words, but it doesn't quite feel like the Dragon Ball universe I'm used to. If GT wasn't a Dragon Ball show at all, I doubt I'd even remember it.

I guess my biggest complaint is that things just seem to happen in GT because the plot requires it. Characters don't go Super Saiyan, or they'd win too quickly. Even with that aside, characters seem to be conveniently as strong or as weak as is necessary; the levels of strength seem way less consistent than they did in the manga. And, as Chibi Mystic Gohan already mentioned, there's the fact that characters seem to make rookie mistakes, seemingly for no reason other than to artificially make the fights seem harder. All of this isn't even anything to do with plotholes--it's just lazy writing.

All that said, I do enjoy GT in its own, very strange way. I mean, I've watched it from start to finish a couple of times, and I don't hate it. It has its moments and some good points. But overall, I just think it's a mess.

[Herms]

I actually enjoy quite a few of the DBZ movies, mostly because the plot and fight scenes were done a lot better than GT. I don't know if GT simply had different people writing the scenarios, or if there were different directors, but somehow, some of the movies turned out watchable.

Yeah, GT had a fairly different main staff than the DB/Z TV series and movies. Most prominently, Takao Koyama, scriptwriter for all the DBZ movies, didn't work on GT. The series director for Z was Nishio Daisuke, while for GT it was Osamu Kasai. Perhaps most distressing of all, the series organizer for GT was Aya Matsui, who was scenario writer for the Bulma and the crab episode and the Anoyo-ichi Budoukai.

[linkdude20002001]

Originally, Funi skipped the first 16 episodes of GT because they didn't have enough ACKSHUN, replaced them with a one-episode "recap" showing the story up to that point, then released them later as "The Lost Episodes", when they were never really lost to begin with.

Which is a shame really. Because those are the only episodes I was ever able to watch. I've gotten to about episode 18, then I stopped. It's just too freakin' boring.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

I actually enjoy quite a few of the DBZ movies, mostly because the plot and fight scenes were done a lot better than GT. I don't know if GT simply had different people writing the scenarios, or if there were different directors, but somehow, some of the movies turned out watchable.

Yeah, GT had a fairly different main staff than the DB/Z TV series and movies. Most prominently, Takao Koyama, scriptwriter for all the DBZ movies, didn't work on GT. The series director for Z was Nishio Daisuke, while for GT it was Osamu Kasai. Perhaps most distressing of all, the series organizer for GT was Aya Matsui, who was scenario writer for the Bulma and the crab episode and the Anoyo-ichi Budoukai.

Aha! Like I said, 64 episodes of Bulma and the Crab!

[JulieYBM]

I actually thought the Imegga arc was pretty cool. It allowed us to explore a world where the weak were exploited by a powerful dictatorship that abused capitalism. The gang made their moves small, not playing too rough when there was no need. Redict was also a pretty cool guy. Maybe a bit too much Paikuhan/Si Xing Long-esque, but otherwise there was real potential...it's a shame he never got to return, more powerful.

I also liked the idea of Mutchy and Lood (or whatever the proper spellings of those are). Had Dr. Mu's team up with Dol Taki and the Lood cult been tied in with Don Kia tightly the first sixteen episodes of story could've been pretty cool.

Then there's M2. Aside from maybe a little bit of repetiveness with Pan being shot outside of the building that arc's only real folly was the incredibly stupid way General Rild was finally beaten: three base form Kamehame-Has. >__< Otherwise, had a Super Saiyan 2 Gokû (or just SSj Gokû, SSj Trunks, and Pan) been allowed to deliver a final combo it'd been really great.

The Baby arc really only faltered with the final episode of the fight. Really, the entire staff (writting, art and animation) need to be shot for that. That was a terrible ending to a so far epic battle.

The Super #17 arc...well, there's nothing that can be said about that. I'd have forgiven all had the battle with Cell and Freeza had involved Super Saiyan Gokû epically holding both of them off for two or three episodes while Vegeta, Gohan, Gotenks, and Oob held off Super #17 and the other villains back on Earth.

The Evil Dragons arc was also a bit of a let down. That was really a good chance to have each of the characters fight. The defeat of Yi Xing Long is really good, though. I love that moment between Vegeta and Trunks, where Gokû is seemingly dead and Vegeta tells Trunks to live on while he holds Yi Xing Long off.


As much as I am baffled by Gohan becoming a Super Saiyan in GT, damn if the model and animation for his Super Saiyan form was not gorgeous. The same with SSj Goten (and on the rare occasion, SSj Trunks). Vegeta too looked great (save for #41 and #45...those were that awful hack Uchiyama Masayuki). Hakamada Yuuji, Kuda Kazuya, and Fujita Tsutomu, and Yoshida Tomoko are the phenoms that really gave GT's art and animation great life.

[Kendamu]

I actually enjoy quite a few of the DBZ movies, mostly because the plot and fight scenes were done a lot better than GT. I don't know if GT simply had different people writing the scenarios, or if there were different directors, but somehow, some of the movies turned out watchable.

Yeah, GT had a fairly different main staff than the DB/Z TV series and movies. Most prominently, Takao Koyama, scriptwriter for all the DBZ movies, didn't work on GT. The series director for Z was Nishio Daisuke, while for GT it was Osamu Kasai. Perhaps most distressing of all, the series organizer for GT was Aya Matsui, who was scenario writer for the Bulma and the crab episode and the Anoyo-ichi Budoukai.

Aha! Like I said, 64 episodes of Bulma and the Crab!

Without Aya Matsui we never would've had the driving episode, though. So it was a necessary sacrifice.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Is the Anoyo-ichi Budoukai really that poorly regarded? I thought it was pretty good.

[Mountain]

Without Aya Matsui we never would've had the driving episode, though. So it was a necessary sacrifice.

Haha. True. Also, I prefer the Bulma and the Crab episode to GT, for the most part. =\

Is the Anoyo-ichi Budoukai really that poorly regarded? I thought it was pretty good.

I enjoyed it, as well.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Without Aya Matsui we never would've had the driving episode, though. So it was a necessary sacrifice.

Haha. True. Also, I prefer the Bulma and the Crab episode to GT, for the most part. =\

Yikes, I think that's going a little far!