Was introducing power levels a mistake?

[Perfect]

Battle powers are minimal in Dragonball. Us, fans, are who transformed it on a complex, atrocious subject.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Xyex]

To a certain extent, I think it was. They're kind of fun and everything, but I think it introduced to many arguments.

For one thing, I'm not a fan of how weak it revealed all the characters to have been in Dragon Ball.

It also introduced the issues of "wait, how did they get to that level," and so forth.

I feel they limited the story to a certain extent, and the earlier episodes/chapters worked better without them.

Except that characters in Dragonaball are not weak. You only think they are because you've been affected by power-washout. The absurdly and abnormally high levels seen later have colored your view of the earlier stuff. But you have to remember that the average person has a power of 5 and Freeza's best soldiers on Namek (not his Super Elites, but the soldiers) were getting kicked around by a bunch of people at 3,000, and the Ginyu Force, at an average power of around 40,000 had never before lost a fight. Judging by all we see in Z the average power of the universe as a whole likely isn't much more than 800.

Kui, Dodoria, Zarbon, the Ginyu Force, and especially Freeza, were all major aberrations from the norm. The Saiya-jins, the most powerful warrior race in the universe, had never even broken 20,000 prior to Vegeta's post-Earth zenkai. Had likely never broken 13,000 prior to Vegeta doing so. Sure, Oozaru bumps them way up there (Oozaru Vegeta on Earth was the second most powerful person in the universe) but that's a high limited transformation that was probably not used often, yet they conquered entire worlds. Even having a program of sending infants to conquer planets, such as Goku.

If anything, the introduction of BPs into the series showed that the humans were already quite powerful to start with, and capable of keeping up with even the best non freaks the universe had to offer. Sure, it'd have been great if the numbers had been kept smaller (say... 700 for Raditz, 3,000 for Vegeta, 10,000 for Ginyu, and 100% Freeza at something like 70,000) but even the way it played it showed that the Earth fighters were already some of best out there. Out classed by the greatest, yes, but still powerful all the same.

[Bussani]

This may be a generalization, but I think people who started with "Z" take battle powers more seriously than people who started at the real beginning. Like some else said, it's all the reruns of those sagas that drove it into people's heads. I even remember commercials when "Z" first started making a big deal out of it, as if, "What's your power level?!" was their campaign slogan.

All that said, I think battle powers served their purpose and then went away. I don't see them as a bad idea from a storytelling standpoint, although I do agree that they'd have been limiting if they'd stayed around permanently. I also think that Toriyama didn't really care much if they made sense at times.

...Has anyone ever considered treating the battle power units as an exponential growth curve instead of a linear one? I don't know why the in-story creator of the units would think it would be a good idea to make them work that way, but maybe it would make some of the power increases later in the story make more sense.

[Herms]

*Looks at Goten's power level*

10,000? Thats all?

Goten has no official power level. What the heck are you looking at?

[Codarik]

Yes power levels was a mistake IMO, it just added confusion in the series. Fans always asking what were the characters power levels at this point and such.

[JulieYBM]

I like battle powers. They're an interesting concept that add some neat gravitas to the fighting. In Yû Yû Hakusho you're litterally floored when you learn the Toguro's were only B-class Yôkai. In Dragon Ball...there's not as shocking a reveal about the powers, I think. It's easy to accept that Son and Piccolo were only about one hundred times as powerful as a normal human.

Yes power levels was a mistake IMO, it just added confusion in the series. Fans always asking what were the characters power levels at this point and such.

That sounds more like a problem with the fans, rather than the series.

[Kingdom Heartless]

I didn't mean "weak" in general, I just meant in comparison to characters later on. I mean, like a Saibaiman could have killed them all.

Anyway, I see your points.... I guess it is more the problem of fan dissection rather than them being there.

[Bussani]

I mean, like a Saibaiman could have killed them all.

I like that, personally. Kame Sen'nin tried to teach Goku and Kuririn early on that there's always someone stronger than you around the corner, and things like that just reinforce how true that is. It's humbling, you know? Big fish in small pond kind of thing.

[Kaboom]

A mistake? No, Power Levels in numerical form served their purpose in the story very well, and outside of the series they serve as just one more outlet for the fandom's creativity. However, its that same fandom that can sometimes take them a little TOO seriously, and thus give the entire concept somewhat of a bad rep.

[Goten Forever]

I have seen 10,000 on just about every PL site anywhere.
I believe that if a super saiyan has to be at least 180,000 normal, and Goten had fully mastered the form, which took Gohan into the early millions as normal, then well he should be there too.

Stupid power levels arent accurate enough.

Of course, I too agree that they went way over the top, especially in Freeza arc. What the hell, 1 million? One of 100 would have a much better effect...

[EnmaDaiou]

I have seen 10,000 on just about every PL site anywhere.

I'm sure they're all fake.
Fan made power lists.

There's no official power list after freeza saga.

The last cited power was the Trunks suppressed power 5 before kill Freeza and Cold..

[Xyex]

I have seen 10,000 on just about every PL site anywhere.
I believe that if a super saiyan has to be at least 180,000 normal, and Goten had fully mastered the form, which took Gohan into the early millions as normal, then well he should be there too.

I've never seen anyone put Goten that low. I'm a fan of lower PLs post Freeza and even I put him in the low to mid 2,000,000 range in base. Anyone who does use 10,000 either is obviously not paying attention to the series or has retconed all the levels back some.

[Rocketman]

I have seen 10,000 on just about every PL site anywhere.
I believe that if a super saiyan has to be at least 180,000 normal, and Goten had fully mastered the form, which took Gohan into the early millions as normal, then well he should be there too.

Well, first, what do you base "Goten mastered Super Saiyan" on?

[chaosakita]

Personally, I dislike power levels. They become more and more arbitrary as the series goes on and simplify an idea that could be complicated (combat) and reduce it to a single number. They're inconsistent and don't convey anything that can be meaningfully translated into the story.

[Perfect]

Personally, I dislike power levels. They become more and more arbitrary as the series goes on and simplify an idea that could be complicated (combat) and reduce it to a single number. They're inconsistent and don't convey anything that can be meaningfully translated into the story.

They're not inconsistent by any means. It's not like Vegeta's power level went from 5 to 3 when coming back with a zenkai.

[chaosakita]

Personally, I dislike power levels. They become more and more arbitrary as the series goes on and simplify an idea that could be complicated (combat) and reduce it to a single number. They're inconsistent and don't convey anything that can be meaningfully translated into the story.

They're not inconsistent by any means. It's not like Vegeta's power level went from 5 to 3 when coming back with a zenkai.

I am thinking they are inconsistent in the way they don't scale consistently and have very weak correlation.

[Perfect]

Personally, I dislike power levels. They become more and more arbitrary as the series goes on and simplify an idea that could be complicated (combat) and reduce it to a single number. They're inconsistent and don't convey anything that can be meaningfully translated into the story.

They're not inconsistent by any means. It's not like Vegeta's power level went from 5 to 3 when coming back with a zenkai.

I am thinking they are inconsistent in the way they don't scale consistently and have very weak correlation.

It's spiritual energy basically, it's not going to go up in certain sets. It's going to be as random as nature in terms of increasing. But you're not going to decrease in power from training, it's obviously going to increase. Also what are they in correlation with, each other? The scouter and chi itself? Elaborate.

[Savage68]

Well, first, what do you base "Goten mastered Super Saiyan" on?

He had the trademark "FPSSJ Eyes", and only Full-Power Super Saiyans have demonstrated the ability to control their ki.

[chaosakita]

I am thinking they are inconsistent in the way they don't scale consistently and have very weak correlation.

It's spiritual energy basically, it's not going to go up in certain sets. It's going to be as random as nature in terms of increasing. But you're not going to decrease in power from training, it's obviously going to increase. Also what are they in correlation with, each other? The scouter and chi itself? Elaborate.[/quote]

Uh duh...

I never doubted there was a correlation with power level and strength or training (which is absurd that you thought I did). But you just said it was random, which I feel like it is. The "average" person is 5? So what does it mean when you have a power level of 1,000,000? 100,000,000? What does it mean? I feel like it is just a convenient way to tell and not show, and then people make absurd-sounding lists to justify character's strength.

[Perfect]

Uh duh...

I never doubted there was a correlation with power level and strength or training (which is absurd that you thought I did). But you just said it was random, which I feel like it is. The "average" person is 5? So what does it mean when you have a power level of 1,000,000? 100,000,000? What does it mean? I feel like it is just a convenient way to tell and not show, and then people make absurd-sounding lists to justify character's strength.

Excuse me? You're having a hard time comprehending my context, I can see that. Let me put it in simple terms,
-Vegeta has a power level of 4,000. He trains for a few months and it increases by 123.
-Vegeta has a power level of 4,123. He trains for a few months and it increases by 90.
-Vegeta as a power level of 4,213. He trains for a few months and increases by 200.

The ideal here is that power levels don't increase in a linear sense. The average power level for a human, a mere mortal is 5 yes. Kaio and Kaioshin and many other races are born with higher power levels. Saiyans being born with something around two, with the exception of Broly. As you'll notice, characters "usually" aren't born with insanely high power levels.
They have to work their way up, taking years of training. The stronger they got, the more advanced methods they needed to increase their power level. And power levels are really used for a total of two sagas (Not even used until Trunks' arrival once Freeza transforms, unless you count the reading on Planet Vegeta), where their strength can justify itself without being numerically read through some piece of technology. Your problem seems to be with the fans, more so than the concept itself. Oh and, it was absurd I thought you doubted there was a correlation with strength and training? That was just an example to add to the question of what you were referring to since you were being vague.