Aspects You Wish Were Expanded Upon

[Perfect]

I would've liked to see Gohan's potential psychological issues expanded on. But this is Dragonball, a manga for 8 year olds, so obviously that isn't happening.

The only character that really seemed to have any "major" mental issues to me was Trunks. Gohan still had that sense of naivety Goku had, up until his potential was released by the Elder Kaioshin at least. Also the demography for Jump manga is usually a bit larger, I'd say in Japan at least, 6-17. Of course you had quite a few readers outside of that margin as shown in the various Jump contests, but it is a shonen series after all, in Japan (where things in comic books aren't viewed nearly as offensive as they are here).

... Psychological issues? What you see is what you get in DB. Gohan was just a crybaby-turned-crybaby-turned-badass-turned-nerd-turned-useless.

I'd say he was pretty brave for his age, I don't know how many kids would survive Piccolo's training, even with an awesome hidden power and being the son of Goku...Though he was remarked as being substantially different than his father during the reunion.

[Rocketman]

Gohan has textbook Stockholm Syndrome.

From the wiki:

The following are viewed as the conditions necessary for Stockholm syndrome to occur.

* Hostages who develop Stockholm syndrome often view the perpetrator as giving life by simply not taking it. In this sense, the captor becomes the person in control of the captive’s basic needs for survival and the victim’s life itself.(Check)

* The hostage endures isolation from other people and has only the captor’s perspective available. Perpetrators routinely keep information about the outside world’s response to their actions from captives to keep them totally dependent.(Check)

* The hostage taker threatens to kill the victim and gives the perception of having the capability to do so. The captive judges it safer to align with the perpetrator, endure the hardship of captivity, and comply with the captor than to resist and face murder. (Check)

* The captive sees the perpetrator as showing some degree of kindness. Kindness serves as the cornerstone of Stockholm syndrome; the condition will not develop unless the captor exhibits it in some form toward the hostage. However, captives often misinterpret a lack of abuse as kindness and may develop feelings of appreciation for this perceived benevolence. If the captor is purely evil and abusive, the hostage will respond with hatred. But, if perpetrators show some kindness, victims will submerge the anger they feel in response to the terror and concentrate on the captors’ “good side” to protect themselves. (Check)

...In many cases, capture may also involve the killing (or threat of killing) of the captive's relatives, thereby isolating the captive. The captive is subjected to isolation and so sees even a small act, such as providing amenities, as a great favour. Such captives may side with their captors while believing their captors have conferred on them great importance and love. (And check)

[ShiningMoon]

Oh wow, textbook indeed.

Heh, it's always fun to look at the crazy shenanigans of characters of a "fantastical" universe from a real-life perspective. (There has to be something wrong with Bulma. "Genocidal maniac whose chief desire is to brutally beat and kill one of my best friends, who I welcomed into my home without a second thought? Mebbe this afternoon I'll start a verbal shouting match with him -- ooh! -- and then have sex with him afterward.")

[T Pac]

Would have been nice to get something about those gaps in between major arcs. One complaint I've had is that the filler/movies all seem to happen almost concurrently with the actual story. I've always thought it would be a good opportunity to give us something about those "lost years" -- over thirty years that we pretty much know nothing about.

[DBZMan-18]

I'm pretty sure it's just me but how did Cell get his Perfect body back after spittting out 18 then blowing himself up? The Saiyajin Cells boosted his strength thing doesn't explain it because he would just have a super powerful Second Form he wouldn't just magically jump to his Perfect Form granted it looks cooler but still....

[Savage68]

Cell regenerated into his perfect form and magically dipped his hand into Goku's skill set for the sake of super-duper srs business melodrama, man. Don't try to think too hard about it.

You'll get a nosebleed.

[violadude]

Hmm, I've always wanted Toriyama to go into more detail about exactly HOW Trunk's time travel changed the future so much.

I have my own theory about this, but thats for another thread.

[SephiVA]

Its been suggested many times that Dabura (I hate Dabra and don't get why Viz english manga calls him that) was a Makaioshin..the evil counter part to the Kaio-shin. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Makaioshin

gosh..looking into that makes me wanna know more about the backstory of One Piece (a series that does what DB did so well..even better lol)

[Piccolo Daimao]

Its been suggested many times that Dabura (I hate Dabra and don't get why Viz english manga calls him that)

Probably because that's his actual original name, derived from "Abra-cadabra".

Viz are generally much more accurate than FUNimation when it comes to their naming scheme (apart from the few oddities like "The Jiggler").

[VegettoEX]

Its been suggested many times that Dabura (I hate Dabra and don't get why Viz english manga calls him that)

アブラカダブラ -> aburakadabura -> "Abracadabra"

Spelling it with a "u" is fine and all, but in my experience is causes people to place an emphasis down there on that end of the word that (1) doesn't exist, and (2) changes the pronunciation of the name (not to mention, er, the name itself). It's not "duh - BOOR - ah"... you just kinda slur through that ブ into the ラ at the end. If you're going to place any "emphasis" at all (not that you do, since it's Japanese), the first syllable of the name is extended into a long "daa" (ダー), which is the only thing that separates it from actually being ダブラ from アブラカダブラ.

[SephiVA]

Perhaps I'm the only one who cares, but I would like to know how in the world Vegeta and Bulma ended up in bed together... I know there's really no place for romance in Dragon Ball, but... it just seems so out of left field and yet so perfect at the same time. Did anyone else's jaw drop when they heard Trunks tell Goku who his parents were?

Bulma was horny, Vegeta was horny, they fucked. That's it, there's no romance to be had.



I would like to see more about the galaxy beyond Earth. Like, what happens when everybody wakes up to find Freeza's dead and his hierarchy gutted?

I don't like that assumption and also disagree with it. I think its even been implied after Trunks appearance that they DID build up a romance of sorts...though different than most would expect out of a couple, and sometimes I feel like it was forced sense it was clear she was meant to be with Yamcha (which btw, is it just me or did he become way more useless than he was meant to be ever sense Future Trunks showed up?) and good question you asked after that.

Off the top of my head..

- The whereabouts of Lunch

- The Demon realm

- The origin and the birth of the gods

- The origin of Chiaotzu and Tenshinhan

- The origin of Yamcha

- The origin of Mr.Popo

.. and that's about all I can think of at the moment. Hmm. Time to sleep.

Good questions I agree with wanting to know.

Goku's first ascent opens up a pretty scary part of his character, where I think he acts differently than he maybe even would have in a similarly enraged state prior to going Super. But then that kind of gets forgotten about.

Now that you mention it, that's always bugged me. It's like once it was decided that everyone would be able to unlock the transformation and it wasn't 'special' anymore, that aspect of it was completely dropped. I always liked it because truly, the way the legend had been described prior to that point, and things like Ginyu and Vegeta saying that there's no way Goku was the Super Saiyajin because he was too soft and gentle and the Super Saiyajin was supposed to be merciless...and truly, it was an aspect of Goku that we never really saw before that point. In the end his decision to spare Freeza seemed to be a struggle, the true Goku vs. his current form, and it showed that because Goku is Goku, he can still hold onto his personality even after unlocking that rage...but after that, it was like yeah, whatever, the only difference is blonde hair and a huge-ass power increase. Bleh.

I never noticed that, but I guess it might make SOME sense what you just said sense the state is unlocked through anger. I also think the Super Saiyan legend was very inconsistant througout. Hell, Vegeta "couldn't be super saiyan"because he wasn't "pure of heart" and Vegeta's all "I am pure..PURE EVIL" dun dun dun. See what I mean? Inconsistant.

Now that you mention it, that's always bugged me. It's like once it was decided that everyone would be able to unlock the transformation and it wasn't 'special' anymore, that aspect of it was completely dropped. I always liked it because truly, the way the legend had been described prior to that point, and things like Ginyu and Vegeta saying that there's no way Goku was the Super Saiyajin because he was too soft and gentle and the Super Saiyajin was supposed to be merciless...

Sense when was it supposed to be merciless? I don't recall ever reading that...

and truly, it was an aspect of Goku that we never really saw before that point. In the end his decision to spare Freeza seemed to be a struggle, the true Goku vs. his current form, and it showed that because Goku is Goku, he can still hold onto his personality even after unlocking that rage...but after that, it was like yeah, whatever, the only difference is blonde hair and a huge-ass power increase. Bleh.

Yeah, I think they could have done some pretty interesting stuff if they would have kept the whole scary rage/losing oneself bit. As SSJ2 was introduced, it probably would have been an extension of this (well, we kind of see this with Gohan, but then that's already been established as Gohan's "thing," the crazy rage/crazy strength) and if that would have been the case then I think SSJ3 Goku would have been creepy as hell. (I did this doodle related to this a few days ago.) I mean, heck, it's all there -- SSJ3 even looks less "human," so it would have been so cool if Goku's behavior reflected this. (I kind of plop him on his own human<----->Saiyajin continuum, and it seems the stronger he gets, the more he progresses toward the Saiyajin side.)

Agreed; it was kind of chilling to go from "bah, he could never be the Super Saiyajin, look how nice he is!" to this sort of self-fulfilling prophecy (that's probably not the right way to put it, but). That Goku acted that way at all (as you mentioned, that his deciding to spare Freeza seemed a struggle for him) is, I think, a cue to us that the behavior change was caused by the transformation.[/quote]
Dude..SS2 already DOES have a unique personality trait..they all become more arrogant than they normally are. We saw it with Gohan the most prominently though.

Gohan has textbook Stockholm Syndrome.

From the wiki:

The following are viewed as the conditions necessary for Stockholm syndrome to occur.

* Hostages who develop Stockholm syndrome often view the perpetrator as giving life by simply not taking it. In this sense, the captor becomes the person in control of the captive’s basic needs for survival and the victim’s life itself.(Check)

* The hostage endures isolation from other people and has only the captor’s perspective available. Perpetrators routinely keep information about the outside world’s response to their actions from captives to keep them totally dependent.(Check)

* The hostage taker threatens to kill the victim and gives the perception of having the capability to do so. The captive judges it safer to align with the perpetrator, endure the hardship of captivity, and comply with the captor than to resist and face murder. (Check)

* The captive sees the perpetrator as showing some degree of kindness. Kindness serves as the cornerstone of Stockholm syndrome; the condition will not develop unless the captor exhibits it in some form toward the hostage. However, captives often misinterpret a lack of abuse as kindness and may develop feelings of appreciation for this perceived benevolence. If the captor is purely evil and abusive, the hostage will respond with hatred. But, if perpetrators show some kindness, victims will submerge the anger they feel in response to the terror and concentrate on the captors’ “good side” to protect themselves. (Check)

...In many cases, capture may also involve the killing (or threat of killing) of the captive's relatives, thereby isolating the captive. The captive is subjected to isolation and so sees even a small act, such as providing amenities, as a great favour. Such captives may side with their captors while believing their captors have conferred on them great importance and love. (And check)

Holy crap, you're right! Though Piccolo merged with kami which made him nicer me thinks.

Its been suggested many times that Dabura (I hate Dabra and don't get why Viz english manga calls him that)

アブラカダブラ -> aburakadabura -> "Abracadabra"

Spelling it with a "u" is fine and all, but in my experience is causes people to place an emphasis down there on that end of the word that (1) doesn't exist, and (2) changes the pronunciation of the name (not to mention, er, the name itself). It's not "duh - BOOR - ah"... you just kinda slur through that ブ into the ラ at the end. If you're going to place any "emphasis" at all (not that you do, since it's Japanese), the first syllable of the name is extended into a long "daa" (ダー), which is the only thing that separates it from actually being ダブラ from アブラカダブラ.

[/quote]
Figures >.< thanks for clearing that up..I get the feeling I've heard that before and forgotten. Meh, Dabra is annoying because it makes it sound like they're on the brink of calling him "Debra" which is a female name XD

[Herms]

Its been suggested many times that Dabura (I hate Dabra and don't get why Viz english manga calls him that) was a Makaioshin..the evil counter part to the Kaio-shin. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Makaioshin

You'd think though that if Toriyama had that in mind he would have mentioned it when explaining about the Makaio and Makaioshins in the SEG.

Reading that DB wikia entry is extra weird for me because it's based entirely on the posts I made summarizing the contents of the SEG: Character Volume (that broken Daizex forum link they have as a source was presumably supposed to go here), but they really garbled what I wrote. Toriyama never specifically says that the Makaioshin are evil Shin-jin. Rather, he says that evil Shin-jin leave Planet Kaishin to be with the Makaio and Makaioshin. Toriyama also says nothing at all about them being “forcefully cast into the Demon Realm to be kept separate from civilization”. Rather, his explanation makes it sound like they go of their own free will. And don't ask me why they say that Makaioshins are "presumably taller than the average human".

- The origin and the birth of the gods

Well, thanks to Toriyama and the SEG we now know that the Kaios and Kaioshins are born from the fruit of the World Tree and assigned to their posts by lottery. And we know from the series itself how planetary gods like the God of Earth gain their positions.

- The origin of Mr.Popo

Daizenshuu 7 says that he's an inhabitant of the afterlife sent to Earth to aid its gods, as is Karin. The gods of each planet get helpers like these from the afterlife.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Would have been nice to get something about those gaps in between major arcs. One complaint I've had is that the filler/movies all seem to happen almost concurrently with the actual story. I've always thought it would be a good opportunity to give us something about those "lost years" -- over thirty years that we pretty much know nothing about.

I'd have loved to see more on this, too, even if it was in-series filler. A lot of series' do timeskips, but DB kinda became known for them, and it leaves a lot to the imagination of what happened in the time in between...which isn't a bad thing, don't get me wrong, but for something like DB, I dunno...it works for what it is, and its time period, but I guess I've just been spoiled by more modern series' and am always left wanting more characterization on what these guys do when they're not fighting evil. Just a little.

Also, not to be a jerk, but I have to nitpick a little...SephiVA, the word you're looking for is since, as in, 'ever since the end of the Freeza Saga, the human fighters took a backseat to Super Saiyajins as the focus in the story'. Whereas the word sense refers to, in a Dragonball context, the ability to 'feel' the Ki of others, or our own human abilities to touch, taste, smell, see, and hear. It can become particularly confusing when you use a sentence like this:

I never noticed that, but I guess it might make SOME sense what you just said sense the state is unlocked through anger.

See, you used the word sense both correctly and incorrectly in the same sentence. In this case, the former is correct, while in the latter, the word would be 'since'.

I hope that didn't come off dickish, I'm just trying to be helpful and hopefully make your posts a bit less confusing.

[Rocketman]

I don't like that assumption and also disagree with it. I think its even been implied after Trunks appearance that they DID build up a romance of sorts...though different than most would expect out of a couple

Vegeta doesn't make any kind of attempt to save her life when #20 attacked.

[SephiVA]

I don't like that assumption and also disagree with it. I think its even been implied after Trunks appearance that they DID build up a romance of sorts...though different than most would expect out of a couple

Vegeta doesn't make any kind of attempt to save her life when #20 attacked.

that's just his nature, Vegeta is Vegeta, and he probably hadn't admitted to himself even that he had so much as an infatuation of her, as he was still stuck on being the way he was back then. But I'm pretty sure Bulma at least had a crush on him at the time..ultimately you CAN'T say he didn't love them when he was Majin Vegeta.

[ShiningMoon]

I've been working lately with this theory that it was because of Future Trunks (and Vegeta's realizing that he actually cares about him, as we see his reaction to Cell's killing him) that Vegeta realizes he can and does care about people, and combined with his lack of anything else to pursue becomes his reason for sticking around with Bulma and young Trunks. I'm surprised there aren't more fics about this (I think) much more important part of Vegeta's development: we go from being uncertain as to whether he even cares about his family to killing himself trying to save them. I think that's probably where the majority of Vegeta and Bulma's relationship development happened, between Cell and Buu. I'm a fan of the whole "there was no romance at first" thing. I think they probably bothered the hell out of each other, and like to imagine a series of verbal shouting matches that eventually lead up to something sexy. XD
*shamelessly plugs drabble I wrote related to the Trunks dealy*

That being said, at least those mysterious long gaps give us annoying fanfic writers something to speculate about. But I always used to get so excited about the filler episodes that show the characters doing normal stuff so I definitely wouldn't have minded knowing what happened in those gaps, heh.

[KakaR0T]

I would have loved to see more of Goku's training with Mr. Popo.

I also wished they replaced the "Garlic Jr. saga" with the "yardrat saga" and we got to see Goku with the yardrats and how they taught him instant transmission.

[ShiningMoon]

I also wished they replaced the "Garlic Jr. saga" with the "yardrat saga" and we got to see Goku with the yardrats and how they taught him instant transmission.

!! This! That would have been so very, very awesome. I'd totally forgotten about that, but yeah. Or, consider this: it could have been a movie that fit right into the timeline. Coulda been a villain he helped 'em defeat, whilst learning to control SSJ, and so they taught him the instantaneous movement in thanks, or something.

[DBZMan-18]

Cell regenerated into his perfect form and magically dipped his hand into Goku's skill set for the sake of super-duper srs business melodrama, man. Don't try to think too hard about it.

You'll get a nosebleed.

That is the best and closest thing to an answer I've ever gotten on this question. New question I just thought of, how did he get back to Earth?

[Perfect]

Cell regenerated into his perfect form and magically dipped his hand into Goku's skill set for the sake of super-duper srs business melodrama, man. Don't try to think too hard about it.

You'll get a nosebleed.

That is the best and closest thing to an answer I've ever gotten on this question. New question I just thought of, how did he get back to Earth?

Cell's cells remembered his prior form, simple. Goku and Cell's cells mixed during the explosion, basically how he obtained the Instantaneous Movement, which he used to return to Earth.