So, I Actually Kind of Like Broli

[Herms]

Well, from DB Wikia...take it as you will, as I don't remember anything about it. lol

The Super Saiyan was fabled to have been destroyed by his own power, and the filler visual in the anime suggests that his power destroyed the planet that he was on.

Well, that's pretty unhelpful (not your fault, just the wikia's). It still doesn't actually say exactly where the idea that the Super Saiyan was destroyed by his own power comes from. They say filler "suggests" something like that (but what does that mean, really?), though they don't even say what episode this is from. Plus the way they use "and" makes it sound like the filler stuff is separate from the "fable" of the Super Saiyan supposedly destroying himself.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

You know, I always thought the subject of Broli would make a good podcast episode. Mike and co. could discuss his backstory, and of course his popularity. To be honest, I think it'd make a very interesting episode, hint, hint, Mike .

[CatouttaHell]

Broli is a really badarse, awesome guy. His movies have some of the best moments of any DBZ movies IMO. Broli running at Piccolo and just pushing Gohan and Trunks out of his way like they're flies, telling Piccolo he's the Devil, running straight into Toei-Haxed Enraged SSjin 2 Gohan's punch like it's a refreshing spring breeze, etc. He really doesn't deserve any of the hate he gets.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Well, that's pretty unhelpful (not your fault, just the wikia's). It still doesn't actually say exactly where the idea that the Super Saiyan was destroyed by his own power comes from. They say filler "suggests" something like that (but what does that mean, really?), though they don't even say what episode this is from. Plus the way they use "and" makes it sound like the filler stuff is separate from the "fable" of the Super Saiyan supposedly destroying himself.

I have no idea. xD I'm guessing it is from the episode where Goku arrives to level Reacoom, when Vegeta had the "flashback" to the yellow Oozaru looking thing? Though I can't say for certain. Wait.... dub addition I suppose. I always ignore the quotes they put on top the pages, maybe I shouldn't?

"According to Legend, the last Super Saiyan could only maintain his status in the transformed state. His power was extraordinary, he had no equal in the universe. But he was too primitive to control it, his rage burned so intensely that it eventually consumed him. In the end, he was destroyed by his own power."
— Vegeta ("Goku's New Power")

I guess they really are assuming he blew up the planet he was on due to how the filler depicts the scene in the episode.

[SuperForteX]

I still don't understand where the idea that Broly somehow "doesn't fit in" with Dragon Ball comes from. As someone said in another topic, people paint a picture of Broly fans as being those who "aren't Dragon Ball fans, but rather fans of the muscular grunting males from the 'WWF' version of Dragon Ball that FUNimation sells."

The thing is, given the awesome concept of Super Saiyan--how cool it looks, how neat the idea is, how awesome the concept of 'transforming' is--it seems like a total given that there'd at least be one "bad guy" that's also a Super Saiyan.

When did rampant Broly hate even start, anyway? I remember back in the 90s in #DBZ on EFNET, everyone who considered themselves a Dragon Ball fan loved Broly. His whole story tieing him in with Goku, which is ridiculed and belittled now'a'days was considered to be very 'deep'.

Also, Broly represents what we all really want to see in a high power Dragon Ball fight. Just someone with the powers and abilites of a really strong Dragon Ball character simply cut loose. That whole 'reserved martial artists,' who 'hold back for the sake of amusement' gets old after a while.

We want to see a freaking Hulk-like character just go beast-mode and wreck everybody. I really feel like anyone who is a fan of Dragon Ball has felt this way at least at one point, if they don't still feel this way.

Dragon Ball is fighting. There's not really much more depth to the story than that. You enjoy it for the artwork, or the characters, or whatever, but the bread and butter of Dragon Ball is fighting. What makes Dragon Ball sell is the concept of "two really cool, strong guys that have a spectacular fight beyond human limits." With the emphasis being on the "spectacular fight" part.

Broly absolutly wrecks everyone. He's one villain that smashes the whole Z-Crew all fighting together. This is clearly what fans craved that they never got in the actual manga, and this fact is evident in how successful the first Broly movie is, and that the popluarity of the character led him onto two additional apperances. The only other recurring character, Coola, only had two appearances.

Throughout the years, Broly fandom and Dragon Ball fandom went hand in hand. This is undeniable, and the 'writing is on the walls' when you just look at the sheer amount of merchandise released relating directly to Broly, and the fact that he has three movies.

The whole age of Broly hate... really is something new, and inconsequential compared to the 'large picture'. All you need is a sense of deveopmental Dragon Ball fandom history to realize this.

[SylentEcho]

The only reason people started hating Broli was because of broly fanboys constantly creating topics like, "Oh Broly is stronger than Chou Gohan, Broly is stronger than SSj4 Goku etc".

People started hating Broly and it just became a trend. When I first saw Movie 8 back in 2002/3 it blew me away. I loved it and I thought Broly as a pretty cool villain. His laugh was maniacal and he was a total brute.

I think Broly driving Gohan's head through a building and taking Goku's Kamehameha at point blank range while laughing at it were two of the coolest scenes ever done in the movies.

[Cipher]

Broly absolutly wrecks everyone. He's one villain that smashes the whole Z-Crew all fighting together. This is clearly what fans craved that they never got in the actual manga, and this fact is evident in how successful the first Broly movie is, and that the popluarity of the character led him onto two additional apperances. The only other recurring character, Coola, only had two appearances.

See, every movie villain does this though. If Broli deserves a spot among the upper pantheon of important Dragon Ball villains (and I think he does, in terms of being both prevalent and interesting), it can't just be for being untouchable. Super Android #13 is just as unstoppable in his movie, for example.

What makes him cool is that, exactly as you said, he doesn't fit in with the series. He's probably the most original and un-Toriyama villain Toei ever came up with.

Also, Broly represents what we all really want to see in a high power Dragon Ball fight. Just someone with the powers and abilites of a really strong Dragon Ball character simply cut loose. That whole 'reserved martial artists,' who 'hold back for the sake of amusement' gets old after a while.

And this is what makes him stand out once the actual fighting starts. He goes so against what the characters embody and what they're used to fighting against.

[Ahiru77]

It's okay to like Broly. Because he scared the heck out of Vegeta.
Scared him so much, I wonder how Veggies even survived that.


Just because of that, It's forever okay to like Broly.

[Sshadow5001]

Well, from DB Wikia...take it as you will, as I don't remember anything about it. lol

The Super Saiyan was fabled to have been destroyed by his own power, and the filler visual in the anime suggests that his power destroyed the planet that he was on.

Well, that's pretty unhelpful (not your fault, just the wikia's). It still doesn't actually say exactly where the idea that the Super Saiyan was destroyed by his own power comes from. They say filler "suggests" something like that (but what does that mean, really?), though they don't even say what episode this is from. Plus the way they use "and" makes it sound like the filler stuff is separate from the "fable" of the Super Saiyan supposedly destroying himself.

It was only mentioned once when Goku got to Namek and was about to knock out Recoome. Vegeta questions how is Kakarot so powerful and then thinks that maybe he's a Super Saiyan but thinks about what had apparently happened to the Original Super Saiyan who could only maintain it in his Oozaru form and his power destroyed the planet killing him.

Pretty sure its all filler and probably somewhat fabricated in the dub. but I still think thats how Broly should have died.

[Herms]

I have no idea. xD I'm guessing it is from the episode where Goku arrives to level Reacoom, when Vegeta had the "flashback" to the yellow Oozaru looking thing? Though I can't say for certain. Wait.... dub addition I suppose. I always ignore the quotes they put on top the pages, maybe I shouldn't?

"According to Legend, the last Super Saiyan could only maintain his status in the transformed state. His power was extraordinary, he had no equal in the universe. But he was too primitive to control it, his rage burned so intensely that it eventually consumed him. In the end, he was destroyed by his own power."
— Vegeta ("Goku's New Power")

Aha, I guess that settles it. In the Japanese anime Vegeta just gives the same explanation as in the manga, which goes:

“A Super Saiyan appears once every thousand years… a Saiyan who overcomes the wall which no warrior, no matter how gifted, can overcome…That’s supposed to just be a stupid tradition…And even if the legend were true…only I would have the potential to become a Super Saiyan."

I'm guessing the dub inserted a lot of talk over the scene of golden monkey Super Saiyan guy rampaging around, which had no narration in the original.

I guess they really are assuming he blew up the planet he was on due to how the filler depicts the scene in the episode.

Yeah, the filler shows the planet exploding (in the manga the only visuals we get are a moon or something and then Goku's big face). But then afterward it shows the Super Saiyan in space, with Vegeta superimposed over him. It seems abstract rather than a direct representation of anything, but it still doesn't really give the impression that the Super Saiyan died in the explosion. I mean, filler also has Vegeta blowing up a planet, but that obviously didn't stop him.

[Sshadow5001]

I have no idea. xD I'm guessing it is from the episode where Goku arrives to level Reacoom, when Vegeta had the "flashback" to the yellow Oozaru looking thing? Though I can't say for certain. Wait.... dub addition I suppose. I always ignore the quotes they put on top the pages, maybe I shouldn't?

"According to Legend, the last Super Saiyan could only maintain his status in the transformed state. His power was extraordinary, he had no equal in the universe. But he was too primitive to control it, his rage burned so intensely that it eventually consumed him. In the end, he was destroyed by his own power."
— Vegeta ("Goku's New Power")

Aha, I guess that settles it. In the Japanese anime Vegeta just gives the same explanation as in the manga, which goes:

“A Super Saiyan appears once every thousand years… a Saiyan who overcomes the wall which no warrior, no matter how gifted, can overcome…That’s supposed to just be a stupid tradition…And even if the legend were true…only I would have the potential to become a Super Saiyan."

I'm guessing the dub inserted a lot of talk over the scene of golden monkey Super Saiyan guy rampaging around, which had no narration in the original.

I guess they really are assuming he blew up the planet he was on due to how the filler depicts the scene in the episode.

Yeah, the filler shows the planet exploding (in the manga the only visuals we get are a moon or something and then Goku's big face). But then afterward it shows the Super Saiyan in space, with Vegeta superimposed over him. It seems abstract rather than a direct representation of anything, but it still doesn't really give the impression that the Super Saiyan died in the explosion. I mean, filler also has Vegeta blowing up a planet, but that obviously didn't stop him.

Yup I guess it was Just a Dub thing kinda like Gokus father being a brilliant scientist...I'd still rather see him killed by a colliding planet rather than a magic punch.

[Ringworm128]

The only problem I have with Broli is his back story. I remember I first heard about Movie 8 around when I was first watching the Ginyu arc, so I assumed that the story was meant to be the Legendary Super Saiyan that Vegeta was talking about somehow comes back to life. So when I watched Gozar's Saiyan Kindergarten parody I thought "Kakarot made me cry when we were one hour old, therefor I shall KILL Kakarot!" Was something Gozar put in to make it more funny.

[Chibi Gohan]

The problem I have with Broli is his back story(which was really stupid) and that he was in 3 movies. If Broli would've just been in Movie 8, I would've probably had a better liking for him.

[MetalMadness]

I love Broly, for many of the reasons already said here. I just really love how much of a pure beast he is, and I love his design as well; how his transformation brings him to probably the most monstrously muscular character throughout the entire series.

[SuperForteX]

I really don't understand why people don't like his back story. I guess I can't argue in favor of it, since liking something or not liking something is not something that can be 'wrong' or 'right'. That being said, it's a great back story...

He was born with a power level of 10,000. That's... awesome by itself. You probably didn't have to even explain anything else other than that. He grew up as a berserker. He meets all the critera for the Legendary Super Saiyan that appears every 1,000 years.

I think the only reason people don't like his 'back story' is that Goku crying and making him cry is why he's obsessed with him. But it doesn't take a stretch of your imagination to work out why that makes perfect sense, and is brilliant writing.

[DBZ Mick]

I don't mind Broly in Movie #8, it's just the fanboys that really get on my nerves...

[SHINOBI-03]

I don't have a problem with Broli himself nor his movies. The problem is with the fandom that insists him being the strongest of all when he is not. That, and showing him as a major character in every Dragon Ball game. The biggest offender so far, was Attack Of The Saiyans.

[Piccolo Daimao]

That being said Herms, wouldn't SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan make a good example of a Saiyan who was ruthless...referring to your original post here.

I suppose, but he snaps out of it pretty quick after Goku dies. It's kinda the same with Goku's first transformation: he starts off by telling Gohan that he won't be able to control himself much longer, but by the end of the fight he's reverted to the old "I'm way stronger anyway, so I'll just let you go"-type Goku. I don't necessarily mind this per say, but I wish they'd made some attempt to explain why Goku ultimately didn't behave the way the legend said the Super Saiyan would. With Gohan at least we've got the excuse that Goku's death made him realize how crazy he was getting, so there's an actual tangible point where his behavior goes back to normal, but Goku just seems to gradually ease back into it.

Well, while Goku wasn't completely mental like Broli, he did say that he was satisfied that Freeza had been humiliated, so I suppose he's still sort of different to what he normally is. But after that, he does pretty much mellow out. He said that he wouldn't be able to control himself much longer, but Super Saiyan was still new to him, and he was pissed at Freeza for recently killing Kuririn.

My explanation as to why Goku, and subsequently, the others, didn't behave the way the legend said the Super Saiyan would was because, while Goku was a Saiyan, he wasn't a born 'n bred Saiyan like the others. Unlike Vegeta, he didn't fight to prove his superiority over his enemies and to puff up his pride. He did it to improve himself. And Goku never acted like a real Saiyan, apart from the battle lust. He wasn't a cruel, bloodthirst, amoral barbarian like the rest of them. So I suppose that's why Goku wasn't a typical Super Saiyan.

And legend schmegend. As I mentioned in another thread, there's no hard proof that there even was a Super Saiyan before Goku. And even then, the Saiyans didn't know that it was a transformation - the legend only treated it like a level of power. And then there's the whole "1,000 years" thing - it's not as if Saiyans were documenting the appearance of every so-called Super Saiyan (which may've just been a really strong Saiyan, like Goku after his gravity training). So not everything is the legend has to be true. After all, it's just a legend.

-

On-topic, I was always apathetic towards Broli. The fandom blew him out of proportion and he started appearing in games as this overpowered top-tier guy who could tango with the likes of Gogeta. But I like the concept of a Legendary Super Saiyan, and this one actually fits the description. The story isn't great, but none of the movies' stories are, really. And I like how somewhat different Movie #8 was compared to the others. It was slightly longer than the others', and it was this film that instilled a sense of hopelessness more than any of the other movies. Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks (all in their Super Saiyan forms) and Piccolo all get brutally pulverised like a tank mowing down five ants, and not even Goku's Kamehameha scratches the guy.

It's only until they all give their ki to Goku (after getting jumped on like a trampoline) and Goku delivers the Toei Punch that Broli is finally defeated. On that note, I found it pretty stupid that it took the genericness of ki borrowing and a fucking punch to destroy a guy who'd previously clotheslined the fuck out of them all for, like, forty minutes.

Movie #10 and #11 were kind of unnecessary. Movie #10 completely threw away what remnants of intelligence he may've had in the first film by making him constantly shout "KAKARROT!" like a brain-damaged mental patient. And I haven't seen Movie #11, but from what I've heard of it, they made one last lazy, vague attempt of bringing him back as a sludge monster that was even weaker than the original.

Broly absolutly wrecks everyone. He's one villain that smashes the whole Z-Crew all fighting together. This is clearly what fans craved that they never got in the actual manga, and this fact is evident in how successful the first Broly movie is, and that the popluarity of the character led him onto two additional apperances. The only other recurring character, Coola, only had two appearances.

See, every movie villain does this though. If Broli deserves a spot among the upper pantheon of important Dragon Ball villains (and I think he does, in terms of being both prevalent and interesting), it can't just be for being untouchable. Super Android #13 is just as unstoppable in his movie, for example.

I think it's because of the length of the film and the brutality of Broli's beatings that made him seem much more beastly and destructive than the other villains. He was a psychotic Super Saiyan brute who tortured the fuck out of four other Super Saiyans and Piccolo for, like, forty minutes. One notable scene is the one where Broli's repeatedly jumping on Goku, and you can just hear Goku's pained screams and his hand banging against the ground.

Super #13 doesn't take them on all at once and his movie's shorter, so he doesn't beat them up for as long as Broli did.

But it doesn't take a stretch of your imagination to work out why that makes perfect sense, and is brilliant writing.

Well, it's not brilliant writing. It's just that a mentally retarded Saiyan was disturbed by the crying (which is the norm for a baby) of a baby sitting next to him, and held a grudge on him for years. Other than that, he was literally mad with power. That's not much of a story, and that's definitely not "brilliant writing". None of the movies really have good writing, since there's just there to have an excuse for the heroes to fight the villains, even if it's shallow.

[Silver Sinspawn]

What I want to know is, why did Broly deserve 3 movies, when others didn't?

Sure, GJ got his own saga, and it sort of explained his backstory, which is good.
Wheelo didn't need another movie, I can accept that, but mention of him elsewhere would be nice, hell, he was a major scientist in the DB world
Tullece, I think, was deserving of a second movie. Maybe not that, but at least a good explanation of his backstory
Slug is King Piccolo, we need say no more.
Coola got two movies, and mention in other stuff. Good for him. He is related to the most major villain in the series, it's logical.
The androids don't get jack shit, but they don't need it. They're androids.
Bojack could have definitely get a backstory or a new movie
and every movie villain after that doesn't matter.

I didn't do a very good job explaining my point there, but, what I'm getting at is that Tullece, Bojack, and Wheelo are more deserving of more exposure than Broly.

[Piccolo Daimao]

What I want to know is, why did Broly deserve 3 movies, when others didn't?

Because he was popular, assumedly because of his status as the Legendary Super Saiyan and that his longer-than-the-rest first movie (IMO) instilled a sense of hopelessness more than any of the other movies, as he brutally pulverised Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks (all in their Super Saiyan forms) and Piccolo together. The third movie was pushing it, though, because Toei just wanted to keep milking for money with a crappy weak sludge-monster who was vaguely related to Broli.

So it's basically about popularity. Garlic Junior got his own arc because Toei needed a filler arc, so they just pulled out an already-existing movie villain as the antagonist. Wheelo wasn't popular because people would've just seen him as a big brain in a robot. Tullece was an evil Goku, and "just another Saiyan". Slug is Piccolo Daimao, 'nuff said. The Androids are...Androids. We already had enough in the main story, so there was no need to pointlessly bring them out of the woodwork again.

Bojack was actually pretty cool. Him and his henchmen had nice character designs and backstories, but for some reason, they didn't cut the mustard for a second movie. Janemba, from what I hear, is somewhat popular with either the Japanese fanbase or the Western fanbase, or both. But he's appeared in a bunch of video games as one of the few non-main story characters, along with Bardock and Broli. And Hirudegarn's just a big dragon monster thingy that doesn't have much appeal.